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kristopher_wood

What is this dresser and how can I restore it?

Kristopher Wood
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

Hi Everyone,

My sister in law's ex left this dresser at her place and she let us have it, so we're trying to figure out what it is and how best to restore it.


According to her ex it was an heirloom in the family since the 1800s. I'm a bit skeptical by nature so I did some research. The closest matches I could find were Widdicomb dressers from 1899 to 1900, for example this one:

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/storage-case-pieces/dressers/early-widdicomb-furniture-co-birds-eye-maple-highboy-dresser-circa-1900/id-f_9812833/


The dimensions are identical to ours, but the details on the one in that link are more refined.


The drawer pulls were obviously replaced at some point. The original ones had two screw holes which have been filled. The wood has also been artificially weathered by a chemical agent of some sort, which has left a green residue (looks like copper oxide) on the inside of some parts.


Even if turns out to not be rare or antique, we like the style of it and would like to fix it up. How can we best DIY this without destroying any value it does have? Can anyone recommend a good online forum for DIY furniture restoration projects?


Thanks!

Kris




Comments (46)

  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Hmmm the photo won't come through on the post so I'll try adding it here.




  • party_music50
    5 years ago

    wow, that's different. I've never seen a wavy door on a piece like that. Can't wait to hear what everyone thinks it is. I'd like to see more details... the feet almost look like roughed-out carving in this photo. :)

    Kristopher Wood thanked party_music50
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    @Mentha Thank you for the suggestions! You mentioned a few things that I'm not entirely sure if I'm doing them right. - For pinching stems, it seems like you literally pinch the stem near where the vine starts growing a new leaf to break it off. I tried but the stems either just fell off because they were so dry, or it seemed I was breaking the vine, so I just kind of pulled lightly at the parts with dry leaves and let the plant do the work for me. Is that okay? - For feeding, do you mean fertilizer? I ended up using a MAXSEA seaweed fertilizer (http://www.maxsea-plant-food.com/products_all_purpose.html) that I had on hand. - For light, I don't really have a place where I can put it outside (I'm in an apartment), but since you mentioned more light would help it, I moved it from the east-facing kitchen window to the south-facing living room window. The temperature in here usually never ranges further than between 60 to 75 degrees. (I ended up moving it back to the kitchen after a couple days.) Here's a picture of it after removing the dried leaves and in its new location, plus an up-close one. I realize its chances are slim, but most living things want to live, so I'm hoping it will work with me if it sees I'm trying to help.
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  • maddielee
    5 years ago

    Hard to tell the kind of wood, maybe oak? Start by searching ‘high boy dresser serpentine front hat storage’.

    Kristopher Wood thanked maddielee
  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The only text anywhere on it is on the back, "Gold Oak" and scribbled out in black crayon, "1950" so I think your suggestion is spot on. Any idea of the maker?

    What would the pulls have looked like? How do I clean the pickling off the locks without ruining the patina underneath if there is any? Is there a way to find matching keys or have them made?



  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Oh also, do you think the shell on the front is original to the dresser, or added later? If added later would removing it do more harm than good?

  • colleenoz
    5 years ago

    Why do you think the front is not original?

    Kristopher Wood thanked colleenoz
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    Can you remove drawer and post pics of joints and secondary woods. The “antique value” has been destroyed by the way the finish has been “remuddled”. Too bad. I am skeptical of vintage but careful examination of woods can help date it.
    Kristopher Wood thanked Flo Mangan
  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    The words "gold oak" refer to the original factory applied stain....don't know what the 1950 meant. Can't think someone would write on it the date they painted it.
    It dates to the turn of the century, give or take 10 to 15 years...it's factory made so looking at the dovetails won't tell you a thing....they are not hand done nor are they Knapp joint.
    The fronts of the door and drawers are veneer and look to be in great shape....so treat it carefully to see that it stays that way...water will loosen the glue and cause the veneer to lift.
    Use a mixture of denatured alcohol and lacquer thinner...3/4 alcohol and 1/4 lacquer thinner...brush it on a small spot with an old paint brush and let it sit for 30 seconds and wipe with a paper towel....repeat until the piece is clean. Then sand VERY gently with a very fine sand paper, wipe the dust off with mineral spirits and apply a couple of coats of varnish.
    Don't worry about any patina on the key hole covers of the locks, that went with the application of that paint.
    The pulls would look like these....and are available on line....repros of course, but that's OK...you will need ones with a back plate to cover the hole from those wooden knobs.

    Kristopher Wood thanked lindac92
  • Kristopher Wood thanked lindac92
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    In the photos, the side of drawers show the joints and they are not uniform indicating this is not “factory made” piece. But can’t be sure from these photos. Hope you got a good price?
    Kristopher Wood thanked Flo Mangan
  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    @colleenoz I'm not sure if the shell on the front is original because none of the ones I'm finding online from this period have them.


    Edit: Houzz won't let me attach the photo so here's a link:


    Shell on bottom front

  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    @Flo Mangan,


    The dovetails are definitely factory made. The only other joints aside from these are tongue and groove and a few wooden blocks with glue on them. The top is screwed on.


    Dovetails


    The green appears to be left over from the pickling process.

  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    @lindac92,


    The fronts are really curvy so I don't think back plates will work unless they match the curve exactly. The fill appears to be bits of dowels sanded off to be flush with the front. I figured I'd do the same for the holes left by the current knobs when I remove them.


    Drawer Front


    Drawer Front Inside

  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Other repair questions:


    The wood on the hat box door is splitting on the bottom where the hinge screws go into the wood. How can I repair this so that it can open and close without further damaging the wood?


    Hat Box Hinge Damage


    Also one of the drawers has some broken/missing dovetails. Is there a way to stabilize it so it doesn't get worse?


    Likewise, some of the drawers stick a little when pulling them out. There are no metal rails. How can I make these pull a bit more smoothly?

  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    @Flo Mangan,


    Oh, to answer your comment about price, we paid $220. I don't think it's a great price for the condition it's in, but it matches the style of our 1900 bungalow perfectly so we're happy with it. :)

  • colleenoz
    5 years ago

    I wouldn’t expect the carved piece at the bottom to be curved as well, that would be difficult for the manufacturer. But the top appears to mimic the curve, yes? (BTW, there was nothing when I clicked the link for the photo.)

    My late mother had a plain chest of drawers (without the hat cupboard) in mahogany which were similarly wavy.

    Kristopher Wood thanked colleenoz
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago

    If you are satisfied and it fits your home, perfect. That price isn't too bad even with the condition problems. Best of luck with your "project".

    Kristopher Wood thanked Flo Mangan
  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    Yes, that carved piece on the bottom is original.....and you could go with bail type handles and do a careful job filling the old holes.
    I would squirt some wood glue in the place on the door that is splitting and then clamp it....maybe a bar clamp would work?
    Put wax on the rails and the sides of the drawers to make it easier to slide...some parrafin or a candle...or even a cake of soap will make it slide more smoothly.
    Yep...machine made dovetails.....and they even painted and papered the inside of the drawers green? Oh my!! You will want to get that paper off of there and It may harbor some musty smells....but be careful with soaking ti with water!!
    It will be lovely!!



    Kristopher Wood thanked lindac92
  • maifleur01
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Wear a mask, gloves and if possible work outside to remove that green stuff. While it may be from pickling if from the period lindac states it could be something that might make you sick. Edited to add while uncommon some people painted Paris Green in some unlikely places to kill insects.

    Kristopher Wood thanked maifleur01
  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thanks for all the replies! I think I have enough info to go on for the repairs now.


    One last question though: My wife is absolutely determined to paint it. Am I correct in understanding that any value from the original finish is gone now, so painting it shouldn't hurt the value any? Thanks!

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    Yes you are correct. Paint away. It will give it new life. Make it fun!
  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    It will be worth more with the original oak....and since the veneer is is such good condition I hate to see you paint it. "antique value" isn't only determined by original finish, but by overall condition and desirability of the piece. I am highly prejudiced against something that is obviously an antique, painted. It becomes "grandma's attic"...not fun at all. If you want painted furniture, buy something that isn't obviously an oak chest from 1910. And I thought you said you wanted it because it matched the style of your old house ( I use the term "old house" as one of endearment!).
    $220 to buy a piece of antique oak furniture and then paint it?...I don't get that. Why are you worried about getting the pickeling off if you are only going to paint it again?

  • colleenoz
    5 years ago

    Yes, I also would think it a great shame to paint it.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    At this point, it is a personal choice. Sounds like it is between you and your wife. Look at it this way, if you don’t like it you can always strip it down later.
  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thanks again for all the advice! I'll post more photos when we make any progress on it, whichever way we go.

  • elunia
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    It‘s hard to tell, but it’s possible the veneer is quarter sawn oak - in the close up of the drawer front it looks like there may be medullary rays. You have received excellent advice, especially from lindac92. Work on a small area at a time and see how it cleans up before deciding to paint. You could end up with something closer to the chests pictured below.





  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    And be aware that if you do paint it and you decide to strip it it will be many times harder to do and more destructive to the veneer than simply dissolving that pickling stain.
    Beautiful old oak highboy under that green stain.


  • colleenoz
    5 years ago

    I’d have a piece like the one elunia posted over a painted piece any day!

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    I keep noticing things that intrigue me about your chest. Notice legs. They look like French style when antiques like this had simple modified Queen Anne legs. Also your piece has a carved lower apron in French style. I think it has either been modified or is a reproduction. Just doesn’t quite add up to me. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a nice piece to have. Just mentioning some things that I haven’t seen on this type piece. More research is required I believe.
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    Some comparative pieces.
  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    It's not a repro......nor had it been modified in any way but to replace the hardware. I am an antique collector and have spent many years studying items like this....and have had my rubber glove clad hands all over a few.
    The particular style of the leg and the curve of the drawer were at the whim of the manufacturer....this is not a hand made piece...it's factory furniture.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    I don’t disagree with the fact of this being factory produced. Just sharing my observations of the discontinuity of the styling. I too have collected antiques for many years and studied them in many different countries. I have also “restored” a 1900 Victorian home and have the experience of researching a lot of different vintages of furniture. This particular piece peaks my curiosity. I lean more toward French Antiques but to each his own.
  • elunia
    5 years ago

    I guess I’m confused - a reproduction dating from when exactly? Lindac92 placed the style of serpentine veneered front to 1890-1915. The examples I posted as well as yours would seem to indicate the chest is in keeping with that date range.

  • elunia
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Not an exact match...

    (From the Winterthur Museum Library)

    The OP should look for holes on the bottom of the legs (evidence of castors) and signs that a mirror would have been attached from the back.

  • maifleur01
    5 years ago

    In reply to the comment above about reproductions. Furniture styles have been reproduced time and again over the centuries. For some styles it is easy to tell simply because of what they are made from. If wood and the grain is tighter compared to another piece the looser grained item would be more likely have been made later after the older denser wood supply had been exhausted. Depending on the period it may as simple as the angle of the leg is slightly different either between time periods or makers.

    Some types of glazes or colors were only available at certain times. I am learning about paint pigments and several books mention colors made from natural pigments no longer being available because the mine had exhausted the source. In earlier times if the source was exhausted no more of that color. Today there are computer programs that can reproduce the color but may not be able to reproduce the way the color reflects or absorbs the light. An expert can tell the difference the average person would not.

  • maifleur01
    5 years ago

    A caution if you happen to find something similar to the one that is on Pinterest. Not all furniture with that figuration of front wood is natural wood. In wanting to use a table with that nice looking wood in cleaning I discovered it was a painted surface. Nice style but the grain left with the first swipe of the cloth.

  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    Yeah....false graining....and worth more than a natural grained piece because it took a certain amount of artistry to do that.
    These golden oak pieces with the serpentine veneered fronts have not been reproduced.

  • elunia
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    maifleur01, you’ve made some excellent points. You probably also should have included that no one should be making a visual examination from photos. And yes, I understand perfectly that furniture styles have been reproduced time and again. I am also quite familiar with the analytical techniques used to establish authenticity. I guess my point is that there is really no reason to doubt the provenance IN THIS CASE - the OP’s SIL’s ex said that the chest had been in the family since the 1800s (maybe make allowances for slight exaggeration). Of course, many a family lore has been shattered by DNA testing!

  • maifleur01
    5 years ago

    I find a lot of family lore in regards to household items very iffy. People tend to forget that for many families 20 years is a generation since women tended to stop having children in their 40's. So three generations may or may not be 60 years or less, as and example.

  • lindac92
    5 years ago

    BUT ....there is the simple fact that these curved front, dressers with the veneered fronts have not been reproduced. The closest thing is the waterfall pieces of the 30's but they did not have the shaping of those serpentine fronted pieces of 30 to 40 years earlier.


  • Kristopher Wood
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Wow, I didn't realize I'd start so much conversation! :D


    The veneer is intact and is so solidly made I don't think anyone would go to the trouble just to pickle it. I'm inclined to go with the earlier dates. I'll find out what the wood grain looks like once I clean it, and will post photos then. I probably won't have time until after the holidays though.

  • Iberville Duchesne
    4 years ago

    I have sourced many pieces of this period. Commonly referred to as "golden oak period". Likely mass-produced because it's been done earlier than 1900. the Dresser or highboy is quarter-sawn oak veneer ( and oak as the top is not veneer but solid quartered oak ) serpentine drawers and hatbox. Some idiot attempted to strip it with meythl hydrate and left it alone. After a wipe down, this uniformed unpleasant "taupe" tone was left, but the detail photos by the owner reveal very little thickness on the veneer to substantiate finish. the original holes for pulls were filled in and art-mission knobs put on ( they can be used on an art mission piece somewhere else. the applique on the bottom rail is original and these were sold with bedsteads in many magazines around the turn of the last century. There appears to be nothing wrong with the wood veneer ( inside of the drawers are veneered with poplar). I would refinish either with methyl hydrate and or paint and varnish remover and refinish with varnish of your choice. I don't believe in painting attractive grains over with some colour. That time could be spent on a piece of "brown furniture" from the 80's .... Golden Oak on the rear is it's finish of the day. "1950" has no bearing on the piece. The piece's age can also be determined on the lock mechanisms ( if they are still inside the drawer walls). The keyhole escutcheons are original, and I bet the original finish is still underneath those. Remove the nails with pliers and you can get a peak. Mirror is missing and would have hung in a sculptured harp and like all from that period would be bevelled and scalloped edge) . it would also have had wood or steel casters... Restore it, and you've got a piece worth about 600 - 800 - Cheers JJ

  • lindac92
    4 years ago

    Not sure what you are seeing but I can't see enough of the grain of the wood in the original pictures of the painted or pickled piece to tell is it's quarter sawn or not....btu what I do see of the hatbox doesn't appear quarter sawn to me.
    I hope that after 2 years the piece has been re done.


  • Iberville Duchesne
    4 years ago

    No, not from the original picture, but from the five others Kristopher Wood uploaded to his shared album on google photos. Drawer Front/knob detail: one can see medullary rays of the quarter sawn oak through the "pickling". The "gunk" around the wood Art-Mission pulls indicates the piece was rushed through some sort of stripping process because the person stripping it didn't even take off the knobs! Bottom front: In photo showing front bottom rail where the "shell" applique is, you can clearly see the grain and medullary rays of the quarter-sawn oak here as well. These are veneers of course on the drawer fronts, as cutting a serpentine shape would come out of a massive block of quarter-sawn oak and that wouldn't be practical.

    We know the practice in production of furniture from this period to use a great deal of poplar and the inside back of drawer fronts in many many pieces was sheathed in poplar veneer to hide the multiple components of the drawer front body - often made of oak or ash, and more recently, poplar. Drawer interior & drawer photo showing joinery: the photo Kristopher wood has shared of the drawer interior indicates this, and the new hole between the two original holes. Hatbox door: And yes I do see the inside of the hat box door is oak, or ash or elm, but the quarter-sawn oak veneer would have only been used on the outside of the hatbox door. Yes, I suspect the O.P. has moved on to pastures new. I have been on google images hunting (for several years) for a sibling for dresser I have here in my study, and stumbled across this page. Cheers! JJ

  • jemdandy
    4 years ago

    About the repair of the wood split in front door.

    I can't tell from the photos, but it appears that it is not a wood split, rather the door is made of several layers of wood glued together. Whatever the case, the repair is the same for wood split or debonding of a layer.

    1. The problem we face is that if the hinges are shifted a tiny amount, the door will not fit properly upon reassembly. Because of this, I do not recommend disturbing the hinge screws . If the hinges allow removal of the hinge pins, remove the door by removing the hinge pins. First, partially drive out the pins, and then support the door and finish removing the pins. If the hinge pins cannot be removed, then move to option 2.

    2. Option 2: Repair without door removal. Before gluing, gather the necessary clamping items and test fit the clamps, that is, try to apply the clamps before applying adhesive. Get two boards to fit between between the clamp jaws and the work piece. This is to prevent the clamp from denting the door. Since the door is attached to the cabinet, maybe only one clamp can be applied. Apply the clamping pieces and inspect. If it is usable, then proceed with the adhesive.

    Before gluing, mask off any surfaces that need protection from errant adhesive. Work the adhesive into the separation as best you can and clamp. Wipe off any excess that squeezes out. Do not get any on the finish surfaces of the door. Tighten the hinge screws that are in the door. Do not over tighten, merely insure these are snug.

    After the adhesive has set, remove the clamps and proceed with the repair.

    3. Option 3: Door removal when hinge pins can not be removed

    Since the hinge screws and wood are in good condition on the cabinet wall, remove the door by removing hinge screws in the cabinet wall. Leave the hinges attached to the door. Proceed with the repair.