Hm, looks like my post isn't showing up :(

We've been to Las Vegas twice for New Years' eve:)

(we were there more than twice, I mean twice for New Year's)

will be very crowded. very very crowded. and might be pretty cold. yes there will be a lot of noise.

I think you might still enjoy it though, maybe even a lot. Who knows. I usually like everything ..even when I don't want to go anywhere once I'm there I find things to love.

If you go. Do make plans to include Cirque du Soleil..even folks that dislike Vegas otherwise love them..it can be highlight of your trip to Vegas. My favorites are O! and KA

I like Cosmopolitan and Bellagio..both aeshtetically, and in terms of their food options..I also love Wynn

Death Valley is extremely cool..I mean hot..))we went there in August))) we included some other places in this trip..that wasn't a trip that we combined with Vegas

With Vegas, we combined Grand Canyon once

(we've been twice to Grand Canyon..we combined them when taking my Mom on this long trip.)

Never been to Zion yet but everybody who's been loves it

The Four Seasons rooms are on the top of the Mandalay Bay, so it is really self-contained. I think if you want non-casino, it is a great option for you. The hotel is lovely, small and the rooms are very nice. You have to go through a separate door to get into the Mandalay Bay.

I just stayed at the Palazzo and while lovely, that whole place is HUGE. If you want to be more downlow, it's not the place. The spa is fantastic, tho. Have you considered Lake Las Vegas?

For sure you can book a trip and have a less Vegasy experience in Vegas. You may also want to check the Smith Center for events while you are there.

Well, I just found out that the Four Season's pool is closed, and one has to use the Mandalay's, which kind of defeats the purpose. Also looking at the Waldorf Astoria. On the other hand, the spa at the Palazzo sounds really tempting.

Which place at Lake Las Vegas would you recommend? Westin? Hilton?

We'll actually be there mainly before Christmas Day, so I would expect it to be less crowded than NYE.

Will you use the pool if it is 60 degrees outside? I am partial to the Four Seasons! lol It's also super easy to get to the 215 and the 15. I think the Waldorf is brand new rebrand of another hotel. I haven't been to that section in a couple of years but certainly it is in the thick of the Vegas experience. When I've been to the Cosmopolitan I loved it. There is so much great food in that area. I also like the Bellagio, Wynn and Encore. But all still pretty "Vegas." The cool thing about the Palazzo spa is you can get to it without going through the casino! It's on the third floor and the pool is also right outside. But it may be too chilly for pool time. It sort of depends on if you want to hike a mile to your room or not.

I've stayed at the Westin at Lake Las Vegas and really liked it. That area has really built up again in the past couple of years. It is out of the city for sure. Probably 45 minutes to Red Rock Canyon (which is great!).

Editing to say also that Aria would be a great choice. It is very nice, great for foodies (they have Milk Bar which I haven't been to and am dying to try) BUT it's center strip so...people, noise, etc.

No suggestions, just want to say it is never crazy to go anywhere at any time to meet up with you kids ;)

Waldorf was the Mandarin Oriental until recently.

Looks like the Four Seasons may be back under consideration since I certainly won't use a pool in 60 degree weather, but a top notch fitness room is important. Easy access to highways is definitely a plus, so will check a map.

Do you have recommendatons for restaurants?

I haven't been to Vegas in years but have a few comments from my visits.

If you're staying on the strip, look carefully at the maps to see how convenient it is to get in and out without having to go on strip. We used to stay at Riviera (gone) because it was super easy to get in and out of and was a great launching place for anywhere we wanted to go. We were rarely in our room so it was fine.

Valley of Fire is fab! You will probably find it less crowded than Red Rock Canyon. We liked VoF the best and it's not a long drive.

Zion is quite a drive but worth it if you can spend a day. We didn't get out to see too much because my DH had a minor injury. Beautiful park.

Death Valley is quite a drive but worth it if you can spend a day.

Restaurant wise, there are tons of great places, off and on strip. If you like Thai food, I can strongly suggest Lotus of Siam. Their food is spectacular.

You listed enough places in and around Las Vegas to keep you occupied for 3-4 days, but if you want to take a side excursion in December, I recommend Death Valley over Zion, as it will be chilly in Zion at that time. I have friends in St. George, and it is a nice place but not worth going out of your way for. It does have a nice dinosaur museum with dinosaur bone/tracks in the floor of the museum. If you go to Death Valley, go to Stovepipe Wells via Beatty and Rhyolite, NV. Rhyolite is a very large and interesting ghost town. There is a really nice hiking trail south of Stovepipe Wells, and then you can loop back through Badwater on your way back to Las Vegas. Zion is a lot smaller than Death Valley, and you have to be good at mountain climbing to see most of it.

We like to stay in Stovepipe Wells when we visit DV, and we've been quite a few times. We always try to go during a full moon so that we can hike through the desert at night without flashlights. Zabriskie Point is very bright during a full moon, and a lot of the trails make me feel like I'm on the moon or another planet at night. No need to worry about bears in DV.

Lars, have you stayed at Stovepipe Wells Village Hotel? Or what would you recommend?

Bring a good coat.

DV will be cold. Zion will be brutally so and possibly closed. And it's not that close.

(A day for DV isn't much. It's the largest US National Park outside of Alaska, and most of it is slow going.)

I have nothing to add except I just booked a trip for the same reason. It was between Maui and NYC! I chose NYC. Work travel will fill in the final gap.

My DD and I stayed at the Wynn off the strip, I cannot for the life of me recall what it was called, but it was a great stay-the beds-ohhh my. It did have an outdoor pool, tho. What I liked is that it wasn't on the strip, so it was quiet and it did have easy access to the highways, and it was a stand alone, no casino. I found it easy to get out to Red Rocks from there.

Ive only been there 3 times-twice stayed at different places on the strip and wasn't impressed either time. All 3 times I went with people who were not gamblers or drinkers, but managed to have a great time anyway. Lots of shows, food choices (except one visit one of our party insisted on eating at the Hard Rock on the strip-blecch.

ETA-I just did a search and apparently it's not a Wynn hotel any more. I don't know what it is, but it was so nice. The Wynn resort looks pretty good if you'll stay on the strip.

Not a gambler but I go to Las Vegas a couple of times a year. Usually a girl’s trip and one with my husband. We are in So Cal so just a quick flight or drive away. Makes for a nice quick getaway. We generally stay 3-4 days. November or December before Christmas is one of my favorite times to visit as it is less crowded. I think that the convention business is much slower that time of year. Although not good pool weather. I have stayed at a couple of hotels that you mentioned, the Cosmopolitan and Bellagio, I enjoyed them both. Have been wanting to try Lake Las Vegas, if you chose this location please report back on your experience. Sorry not much new information for you, but I do think you will have a very enjoyable trip.

Yes, we did stay at Stovepipe Wells Village Hotel, which has a nice pool. We went for a night swim in that pool in February, and the water was warm enough. I can't remember whether it is heated, but if it is, they would not have to heat it often. The hotel restaurant is also fairly nice, and I think these are the only options in Stovepipe Wells, and so it might already be booked around Christmas. We often go to the desert around Christmas (or New Years) - either Death Valley, Joshua Tree, or Anza Borrego State Park. We went to Joshua Tree last time, and it was more crowded than I expected, but that was at Thanksgiving.

Definitely I would go. There is so much to do. I wouldnt recommend the Cosmopolitan. I stayed there for a conference recently. I was very disappointed in the room. I had to call housekeeping up as soon as I got there as it was not clean enough for me. Also, it was loud with people coming and going in the adjoining rooms all night. I could also hear people talking through the walls. I think I’d pick the 4 seasons, especially if it is contained, or an Airbnb. Definitely go to circus soleil!

We stayed at the Hilton in Lake Las Vegas two years ago. It was fine. We were there for a wedding and some people rented condos which were nice and might be a good option for your family group. It's definitely quieter out there and it has some restaurants but not a lot of choices and not much else there as I recall, but that may not matter much if you are off doing day trips.

In September we stayed at the Signature at MGM, which is just off the strip but walkable to almost everything. The room was lovely and had a nice kitchenette and big bathroom. I think there was a pool and dining but we were only there one night. There are no casinos so you’re not charged a daily casino fee and parking is free. We saw the Cirque du Soleil show called Mystere. How the heck do they do those acrobatics? Get your tickets in advance for any show.

I was just in LV. What a strange and yet somewhat interesting place. I never need to return but I don’t regret seeing it.

We stayed at the Marriott Grand Chateau, which is one of their vacation club properties. It’s not elegant but it’s nice and met our needs. It’s location is great, one block off The Strip, and about mid Strip. They don’t have a casino and it’s a no smoking place so it’s a clean, family atmosphere. We had a one bedroom suite with a full kitchen.

I have the trail map from Red Rock, with descriptions of the trails, and can mail it to you if you’re interested. We rented a car just for the day to drive out there, it’s only about 1/2 an hour drive. There’s a Hertz desk in the Planet Hollywood hotel.

I highly recommend the shark feeding at the Mandalay Bay Shark Reef aquarium. It’s $80 a person, less than you pay for most shows. You actually feed some sharks and get to see the staff feed others. We were behind the scenes, so to speak, for over an hour. There were only 4 of us so we all had ample opportunity to participate. It was definitely the highlight of my LV visit.

We had dinner at Harvest by Roy Ellamar in the Bellagio. It’s a farm to table restaurant. Everything was very good: the food, the staff, and the atmosphere. There’s a glassed in kitchen so you can watch some of the preparations.

hhireno, thank you so much for your kind offer to mail the trail map. A friend of ours gave me one, but they didn't go on any hikes. Are there any trails you'd recommend?

I'll put Harvest on our list of restaurants.

Does anybody have any other recommendations for both moderate/cheap eats and some splurge worthy restaurants?

LV at Christmas is my favorite time to be there. I was there in August and stayed in the Cosmopolitan. I was very disappointed in my experience. I am a token gambler and the only reason I go is to enjoy the shows.

Any more restaurant recommendations?

Cheap eats:

Le Thai which is downtown on Freemont, so if you go down to that melee it is a good dining option. If you are down there, hit the container park. If you are at all a whisky drinker then Oak & Ivy isn't to be missed. Take a "trust fall." It's not cheap, tho. EAT is also downtown and I love it. The owner has an amazing story. Lola's is downtown on Charleston and has great soul food. If you want my ultimate hole in the wall place, Viva Las Arepas at LV blvd and Oakey. I believe it is still cash only but it has the best Venezuelan arepas ever. You might feel like you will get murdered there but a) I think it's fairly unlikely and b) it's worth the risk. It's sort of at the base of the Stratosphere so if you want to ride those crazy rides you'll be close. Makers & Finders on Main and Charleston(ish) is also good (kinda south american food) and has the best lavender latte. Main St is under construction so it's kind of a mess down there. All that Main Street area is the new regrowth area. It isn't "nice" but its funky and weird. Oh! Ok, my other favorite place is Tacos & Beer on Paradise and Corporate (near the Howard Hughes area). It's off strip but not too far. Great margaritas and super creative tacos. The queso is tdf.

Do you want old Vegas? Omelette House for breakfast (on Charleston). Dinner, Piero's or the Golden Steer.

All of the above are unlikely to be recommend by anyone who doesn't live in or work in Las Vegas 30% of their time, lol. It's some weird stuff I've offered.

All that strip dining is amazing. You really can't go wrong but some places are really hard to get into.

STK for steak in the Cosmopolitan but it's kind of loud and bar like. I love Sushi Samba at the Palazzo, also love the Lavo, huge meatballs to die for, also at the Palazzo. Tao has good Asian. Mastro's at Aria in The Crystal's mall has great steaks and food, and not as pricey as some.

lobby, took notes for our next trip! Thanks!

Great, I'm jotting them all down. Weird is good! Especially Latin American.

Since we're there for 4 days, we need quite a few meal recommendations.

Any feedback/insights on Cleo and, Americanas (on a lake, Summerlin?) .

I also need a good burger place that has other food, too.

What about Nabu? Reviews are mixed, and since we're with 5 people, I want to make sure it's really worth it.

Oh, and we need something near Valley of the Fire and Red Rock Canyon, or when coming back from there to LV.

I've only ever eaten at the Malibu Nobu and frankly, it was the best, most amazing sushi and saki I have ever had. I haven't been to the Vegas version. I understand Bachi burger is as good as the hype and there is one in Summerlin which would be on your way-ish back from Red Rock.

I can't believe I forgot my other favorite place in Summerlin, Nittaya's Secret Kitchen! It's Thai and amazing. She opened Block 9 (also in Summerlin) this year as a more casual version and while I haven't been there yet, I've heard amazing reviews.

We were just in LV in November. We also stayed at the Marriott Grand Chateau - - this was our second time staying there. I like it for all the reasons Hhireno mentions... off strip but not TOO far off strip, quiet, no casino on site, non-smoking property, full kitchen for coffee in the morning or warming up leftovers, etc. I find some of the casino properties too scented for me - cigarette smoke plus whatever else they "freshen" the air with. For restaurants - we've eatan at Yardbird in the Venetian twice and have really liked it both times, Gallagher's Steakhouse in NYNY was also very good. I can't recommed a good burger place but we ate at Holstein's (burger & shake place in Cosmopolitan) on a previous LV trip and didn't enjoy it at all (we found the burgers dry & the shakes seriously underwhelming).

We were in LV at the end of October for 3 nights before visiting friends in Lake George. Our favorite splurge restaurant was Giada's in The Cromwell across from Bellagio. Had read to request a window seat so you could see the water show. Glad we did. It was a memorable dinner.

We went to Cirque de Soleil Beatles Love. Knew the words to every song. It was great. We also took a helicopter ride from Vegas to the Grand Canyon West Rim. Flew over Lake Mead and Hoover Dam. We went to Zion and Bryce Canyons from Lake George, so not sure on distance from Vegas.

I just wanted to report back: All in all, we had a great trip. [But see below]

Stayed at the Palazzo, which was nice. We liked their fitness rooms. Also went to Canyon Spa for some fitness classes and spa service, incl. access to their various "rooms". We liked the wave room and salt grotto.

Shows: Cirque du Soleil Beatles Love was superb. We also very much liked Paranormal; still have not figured out how he does it.

Meals: Absolutely loved Americana at Desert Shores. Excellent food, great service, and exceptional value. I felt bad about taking advantage of their happy hour/early bird prices, but because of the time difference, 6 pm was already a later dinner for us.

Also, loved Tacos & Beer: Great tacos, beer, margaritas, and fun service. Thanks so much for the recommendation!!! We tried at least a dozen different tacos and the queso.

We didn't gamble at all, but spent a fair amount of time hiking, biking, and mountain biking in surrounding state parks and national preservation areas.

Highly recommend the Valley of the Fire! It inspired us to visit the parks in Utah and/or Arizona at some time in the nearer future.

[One big mishap was that the flight of one of our kids was delayed by almost 8 hrs. There was one failure after the other, which were all the airline's fault, first plane wasn't repaired properly, then issues with the meal service, who forgot to close the door, which was discovered when taxiing to take off; then return and filling out forms, which were the wrong ones; then correct form; then take off; return to airport after 7 mins into because one engine was on fire --- as DS texted -- at which point I pretty much lost it. Awaited and escorted back by fire engines. Then new plane, and because all this had taken so long, waiting for a replacement crew. At that point, I called the airline, but there was no other flight to have them rebooked.

Which reminds me: I'll still want to contact the airline to complain. I still get palpitations just thinking about this although DS said he figured that's what all the pilots train for.]

I’m glad your trip went well even with the horror story of your son’s flight.

Yikes. We had a travel nightmare last year with trip to Vegas, too. We planned to go back, but I don't think they are doing the Las Rageous festival this year downtown LV. Last year it was April, and for sure they would have announced it by now. But I highly recommend the Downtown Las Vegas Events Center.

Airline representative called me and apologized; they also sent an email with a couple of hundred dollars vouchers. Still, I'm not impressed by the kind of air plane maintenance (or lack thereof). Forgot to mention that within 10 days of 5 flight legs on said airline, 4 legs were delayed by several hrs, all but one because of maintenance issues (the other one, crew member got sick).

Sorry about the travel delay your son encountered. At least the airline gave you some vouchers, but that isn’t an excuse for poor maintenance. The planes we fly in are getting older in some cases with some airlines.

We have flown in/out of LV a few times on our way to points in Utah, mainly because it was cheaper or convenient to where we were headed. Highly recommend another trip if you enjoy hiking. Zion and Bryce are two of our favorite National Parks, especially in the off season or shoulder seasons just before summer or in late fall. Glad to hear you enjoyed your time there and appreciate the restaurant recommendations.

Wow that is crazy scary about your son! I would have lost it!

So glad you enjoyed your time in LV and that you liked the taco joint. It's so hard to recommend "different" places in the valley for folks.