..yesterday I was about to write one more thing but really felt like this annoying guests that says "good bye" while standing in the doors for twenty minutes..

yes, I percieve this country as young, for better for worse..probably because it is relatively young

and maybe because of that..time itself is perceived a bit differently?

I do remember that feeling how time is wasted when one is younger and something takes longer time to happen ..how delays seem much less bearable, how being away from somebody you in love with feels like years go by-when it's actually more like days

(I remember-because I've good memory..but also because my kids remind me))

as for the art..I think it's perfectly fine everybody has their own.. genres that talk to him, and visual art is not one of them

(even though it's very vast..people usually do find something they genuiely are drawn to.)

once one guy wrote about me in my other forum "you all know that I love april, even though I didn't read even one of the poems she posted?"

(I've this thread where I "keep" poems I met and love..for years)

that was funny))

but many people-they don't give a damn about poetry.

so what. I like them the same. They love something else-that I'm clueless about

I've friends that have a whole room dedicated to music collections-while to me Youtube and couple dozen CD's are enough

it's true that everybody has its own songs to sing, and each one is meaningful and important

there's even a nice little legend how King David was playing on his lyre and singing, and got upset because frogs were very loud that evening and were louder than his songs-and was told "how do you know what pleases Almighty more, frogs singing might be music to His ears no less than your psalms" which made him feel very humbled

it's not that some folks are kings and others are frogs..that wasn't my meaning))

My meaning was-I don't expect everybody to be like me or appreciate same things, or..

(actually I'm very grateful they're not..I wouldn't spend a day with myself lol. Two annoying aprils? I'd go nuts)

No..I'm perplexed because if I don't like something..and it's something that's not important, really, in my scale of things..why I still feel compelled for it to be there, like I'd be severely judged if I don't?

After all if a wall is somehow opresses me if it feels too empty..some very physical feeling that I get..I can put there bookshelves, a clock..a guitar if I play it(I don't)....many things to break down that empty space that will be useful to me

Doesn't have to be art- especially if I haven't found yet one that I'm excited about whatever shape it might take.

Art doesn't have to be there. It doesn't have to be there asap either. People don't have to have art. More than that .They might be totally cool with empty walls too. What do know. I do love art, it's extremely important to me-and my walls were largely empty for many years.

Which probably means..We should be cool with their empty walls too I think. if we're striving to give good advice..

Maybe it's us, pushing everybody to think they just have to have art?

No they don't

They would do better with a notion a house is a place to express oneself. Not to impress others with some sum of elements that just have to appear there or else

Then they'll find what it will be

And it might be very interesting result.

April-I don't "know" you-how long have you been here? This country has not always been like this. The ease with which we tire of things IMO is due to the MASSIVE influx of cheap imports, made possible by NOT paying the "true cost" of these items. They come from places without environmental and labor laws we pride(d) ourselves on, so they "cost" almost nothing, if you don't think there is a cost to the exploitation of children and other desperate laborers and the devastation of The environment. When I grew up, we saved for what we had and therefore treasured it and fixed it when it was broken.

..you all give me so many possible meanings of these words, what they might signify. that I'm compelled to make a long list..a bit like that (pretty bad) flagging feature here.."spam"-something that we were bombarded with, and it gets too heavy and tiring.." "miscategorized"-that'd be-doesn't fit a house after a while or right away even, and feels "out of place"..and "I just don't like it"..))

and that'd be only a beginning

justerilynn I might know what you're saying

my current relationship with my house is very bumpy one

I'm not bored with it. Again, it's couple volums up. And it has not to do with decor..

But as I animate things a lot especially houses..I can feel how my house is upset with me too. It's expecting more of me.

It's expecting of me doable things..I've just no energy

I'm expecting of it something that's beyond its abilities.

In this strange, everchanging, relationship, I'm the one who's unfair, really, right now

April, I completely agree with your take on art. Those of us who are exuberant about "our" art want to share that with others, and we want them to appreciate it as we do -- but many will not, and that's ok. We do need to break out of the mindset that art must conform to our own often narrowly-defined expectations. You're right - anything at all that a person wants to display is art: Guitars, a collection of CDs, canvas transfer prints, maps, a chalkboard, a barnwood wall, an old rug, art glass ... truly anything -- or absolutely nothing at all. I am really starting to appreciate the beauty of a blank wall, although I still must resist the urge to fill it, because I'm passionate about certain types of art. (I even have an old bleached and slightly decrepit elk skull that I kept, because I consider it to be beautiful even in decay. "Her" name is Suzanne. ;-))

I think we are wise not to pronounce certain types of materials "real" while others are not. "Real" art ... as alluded to above, is "real" if it's tangible and you love it. It's even "real" if it is the absence of an element. Too, "real" is often used here to denote something that one feels is superior, thereby relegating other items as inferior because they aren't "real." Of course there's a difference between "real" diamonds and CZs, "real" plants and faux greenery and the like ... but when you're talking about art or rugs or other such elements, the same standards do not apply.

When my sisters bedrooms were redone both of them were almost thirty and they were essentially going to be guest rooms. My mom bought inexpensive "decorator" prints to supplement. One pair of prints were basically like greeting cards matted and framed, not even real prints.

When my dad sold the house we recreated my one sister's room in her house.

By that time to me, thirty years later, the art had become real because it had a history. It didn't really matter that they were still inexpensive decorator prints

My take on "art": whatever its cost, marketing or mass appeal, someone created it.

greenfish, no, I meant something else about "young"..a matter of.. spirit, maybe? I don't know how to explain.

What I'm sure about-wasn't about things..or attitude toward things..I realize this changes, I read this very forum, after all, with great interest, for three years probably already?

I learn SO MUCH..sorry for the capital letters, I don't want it to sound like affectation..but it's hard to overestimate what I learn here, to me

how many years I'm here? I need to count. lol. well it was some back and forth. overall..15? (gosh. that's why I hate to count)))

and it's only now that I feel I understand the country just a bit better..maybe...

takes years to start to understand another culture..or at least feel like you're close..

of course there's still plenty of context I don't know

I do love American literature since I was very young girl-and didn't live here(and couldn't imagine I ever will)..we used to have wonderful translators back then(I'm not sure this level of their talent even exists now. and if yes it must be real rare)

and it's still drop in the sea.. what I read.

what I realized, with years-reading even very good books portraying society such and such is not enough. it's enough to make one really really curious

the rest, is still on you to find out, and its kinda endless too

what can I say, IdaClaire and palimpsest, except for yes, I agree with you

things show their soul to us. and we, we give our souls to them. to some of them. in return. at certain point, you have this reflection..connection..whatever it is. and that's what's meaningful

something truly great-is probably something that finds its way of connection to enormous amount of vastly different people

but in order to get your own meaning..no, it doesn't have to be this or that. to be your "real"

tartan, your post reminded me of a poem..a very well known one..it had this line.."Please, listen! If stars are lit- maybe it's something that somebody needs? Maybe-for someone it's so essential that every evening above the roofs would appear even just one star?!"

april...that is magnificent! :) Thank you for sharing this poem. I was not familiar with those lines and Googled right away. Comforting beauty in those lines.

(Confession: I've only skimmed through the stuff since my last post) I've wondered now, and before, who are the people who post for advice here? The people I know (people in age from twenties to seventies) fall into two camps.

First camp is the people who know what they like and just do it. Most of those people own old houses and are good at choosing things that go together. and with their houses They have the knack for design - even if it's design that most people here wouldn't like. They would not post a question here.

The second camp is people who really don't care about design. They furnish their houses with stuff that feels comfortable to them and that they can afford. They might purchase art from TJ Maxx, hang something that they've been given by a relative, or leave the wall blank. They wouldn't post a question here.

So... who are all you people who post questions here?

Well Rosestink, I think I am in between those 2 you described. I am interested in home decor, in making an attractive and comfortable setting. I used to have some real life friends who shared the interest and whose taste and guidance I appreciated. I no longer have anyone like that nearby. My profession was finance/accounting so it's not like I am or was in the thick of design and being exposed to what is out there.

So, I would say I would probably post more often for more guidance (really bouncing ideas around and getting other views) if I didn't feel so exposed showing my house. I could use all the help I can get. I do generally know what I like, but for home decor, I don't find it easy to find things I love or that grab me. Also I might think something will work well but then getting it home it just doesn't . It's not like a sweater that you can either return, or just decide to wear once a month or even give away (lol if it doesn't spark joy).

I am really struggling lately. We moved recently so things are more up in the air than usual and I am very ill at ease about it. I would love to love my setting. It's not bad, but it's not there yet.

A post this morning made me realize how most define dated in decorating circles: not recent enough to be current and yet not old enough to be vintage. :)

(Your posts stick in my mind, April.)

With new technologies available it's always "out with the old and in with the new". That's what makes America Great! Capitalism! Smart phone are now available which far surpasses the old bag phones of the 80's. It's really exciting if you think about it....especially if you are hook on houses like me! Desire is a natural component of Capitalism. Quartz is all the rage right new so "out with the Granite" unless you want to place your cookie sheets right out of the oven on your counter top.....then of course you will want granite. So many choices....so little time.....

Everything I have is "dated"...I have 2 smashing black and gold chairs from the 80's that I adore. I don't think anyone else here would adore them :) I also have a table from 1865 that belonged to my husbands family...surely that's dated as it, too, is associated with a particular era.

Why does it have a negative connotation? Because it's used as insult, when said about something that isn't yours...

I have issues when the word is thrown around, here, in order to get the attention of a poster, for that's a sure-fire way to make sure that your "suggestions" are the ones listened to (as if we were all in high school, needing to be the captain of the cheerleading squad....for pity's sake)..

With new technologies available it's always "out with the old and in with the new". That's what makes America Great! Capitalism! Smart phone are now available which far surpasses the old bag phones of the 80's. It's really exciting if you think about it....especially if you are hook on houses like me!

I'm not sure if you're being ironic or not, Karen : ) . It's more marketing than capitalism (though marketing is the prime engine of capitalism). Marketing stimulates consumers' desire to buy, and it works best when consumers don't realize they're being stimulated. Vance Packard covered it very well back in the fifties in his books, including the very aptly named "The Hidden Persuaders".

Everyone from HGTV, Pottery Barn, and what's left of shelter magazines to Benjamin Moore, Pantone (the "color of the year" folks), the fabric and furniture companies, TJ Maxx, and of course Houszzzzzzz and various professional types etc. need to convince North American consumers that their furnishings are "dated" (ick!) and must be replaced with the new! the fresh! the current! pronto ASAP forthwith lickety split. Conveniently currently available at a store -- in person! online! -- near you. Can't afford it? We take credit! Black Friday! Cyber Monday! Home Sense! Cheap knock-offs of already poor design ideas, poorly executed! Bad credit? No problem! Instalments! You too can make your house into an Instagram-worthy, Pinterest-worthy home with even one big shopping spree! You not only have to keep up with the Joneses' who live next door or down the street or are little Johnny's parents, but you have to keep up with millions of complete strangers on the internet who are more adept at using social media and filters than you are, and/or whose tech abilities exceed their understanding of not spending more than they make. Vance Packard couldn't ever imagine those Hidden Persuaders amped up by addictive smart phones and all the other screens that surround us 24/7.

Desire is a natural component of Capitalism.

Again, this is marketing more than capitalism, and I'm still nattering because perhaps it might help hapless, hopeless, helpless consumers if they understand the forces working to separate them from hard-earned (and not-yet earned) money because marketing types after marketing meetings have arbitrarily determined over the decades that avocado and Formica boomerangs are out (unless they're retro and/or trendy in an ironic way) and stainless steel, granite (uh oh, it's out now), chevron, gray, black stainless steel, modern farmhouse, open concept, etc. are all in, and everything else is old, sad, dated, tired, grandma, old-fashioned, because they are different from what's in most people's houses right now. Brass is in, not the the sad old shiny, yellow brass from the eighties but the new shiny, sometimes matte, kinda yellow brass which Emily Henderson the stylist-not-a-designer loves, especially if we call it "gold" instead of "brass", so it must be right. It's not old sad brass but new better brass, erm, I mean gold. Wait, didn't we just get rid of this stuff? And why do we still have all these walls when we could have open concept houses to the studs? Surely Ma Ingalls, in her one-room little cabin in the big woods and little house on the prairie, is laughing somewhere now at all the modern houses where the main floor is just one room lined with rough wooden boards, a straight line from oven to table to TV, and a lovely, unused front hall that's never used because we all have vehicles and so much mud that we need to contain it in mudrooms on our way to and from the garage.

Desire's handmaidens are envy and dissatisfaction. They all work hand in hand, nowadays with Instagram, Pinterest, HGTV, etc. to make consumers look about their supposedly sad, outdated, homes and feel the urgent need to go shopping.

We're coming up on the beginning of a new year, a time when traditionally the home design industry gears up to tell us to organize -- declutter! downsize! Swedish Death Cleaning! Konmari! The Container Store, where you end up buying MORE. STUFF. TO. CONTAIN. YOUR. STUFF -- all the crap they made us buy in the first place, "freshen up" our homes with a lick of paint (it's so cheap, they say, and then tell us but what you really want Farrow & Ball or BM's latest, and of course wallpaper is so in now), and of course buy something new -- anything, even a throw pillow! -- that's hip, trendy, in, fresh, now, and oh so you.

Live, laugh, love, and buy more stuff.

(Apparently I need much more coffee or possibly something stronger.)

I find the "out with the old, in with the new" approach to design is the one most likely to produce results at risk of being referred to as "dated."

Decorating a house is in no way analogous to buying consumer electronics. Capitalism is a great economic system which has nothing to do with decorating a house. These kinds of statements are borderline offensive, though they certainly reveal something ...

No, Penny, your table would be dated if it were from 1995. Right now, it's an antique. You're right that your 80s chairs would be considered dated. Or maybe vintage. We are in 2018, after all...;-) Damn, it's hard to keep up! :P

I won't speak for Designs by Karen but I really didn't interpret her post as comparing decorating a house to buying consumer electronics, Rita.

Antiques must be a minimum of 100 years old. Prior to that age, items are considered vintage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antique

See it's not hard to keep up. Google is your friend. Ignorance helps no one.

I think we know that, Rita...

My comment, at least, was in reference to the word, "dated" as meaning "of a date"....which I think I said, and in which case EVERYTHING is "dated"...

..it's probably a not-very-smart question, but I'm too curious not to ask..tartan, what was the post? or at least in what subforum?

because now I obviously want to read it))

tartan, I apologize, I thought you said something for the 80s was an antique. Reading too fast without understanding makes one surely look a fool ;-)

Penny, thank you for letting me know I mis-read. I might not have caught that without your kindly bringing my attention to it.

I hope Karen stops back, as I took her comment to be tongue-in-cheek and I smiled when I read it...

April, I always enjoy your threads and I do apologize if I have a part in them having slight detours :)

No worries, Rita. I was being facetious. Tone is difficult to convey in writing sometimes.

April, it was a post in HD. Someone mentioned wanting something less dated yet liking vintage and retro. That distinction made me smile. Dawned on me that it's one made by many in decor forums. "Dated" is undesirable and "vintage" is cool. Just not sure how old something has to be to be considered vintage. :)

I took Karen's comment as tongue-in-cheek as well.

And... Becky summarized the whole phenomenon perfectly. (Thank you for distinguishing marketing from capitalism. We do confound the two concepts.)

no worries, penny, I understand slight detours like few do)) being in constant detour myself..

thank you, tartan, I'll try to find it))

(if my memory serves me right, vintage is approximately 50 years old and more..but still under 100..100 and more y.o. will make it antique, as Rita's mentioned)

I always think of "dated" as the stuff that the masses get because they're following the herd. It's just so common and ubiquitous during a certain time period that it is very much associated with that timeframe.

Not being one who does that I just don't get it. I've moved into houses with stuff that was probably considered "dated" and certainly not trendy at the time I moved in but it was high quality and tasteful in my opinion so I kept it for years (actually forever as it was still there when I moved out 23 years later). Being that I'm prone to that approach I have ended up with some things long enough that they went from probably popular at some point to dated to back in style again. If I like something and it's in good condition it generally stays.

I love personal, meaningful, individual, eclectic things that fit together in harmony with each other and with my taste and by all means are not what everyone else is doing. About thirteen years ago I was an obsessed participant on the kitchen forum - getting practical advice about my kitchen remodel but doing my own thing not in keeping with what was popular at the time. Thankfully my kitchen wasn't at all dated when we sold our house a few years ago. It's interesting to now see real estate listings where people went all out for what was popular in kitchens in 2005 and it is now what most people would consider dated.

those old square TVs were once coveted but now seem “dated”

Well, until they become "retro" and then they'll be hip and trendy : ) .

"Desire's handmaidens are envy and dissatisfaction "

Yes!! So true

beckycharp - your earlier post expounding on marketing/capitalism is priceless. And now I must read about Vance Packard. I sensed no irony in Designs by Karen's comments. Perhaps I'm misreading.

DLM, I didn't sense it either but I wanted to be fair and give the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the kind words, tartan and DLM : ) .

I've had brass hardware in my kitchen for about 20 years now, from Armac Martin via Lee Valley. I was happily surprised last year for our new house to find that AM still makes the exact same knobs and cup pulls, and that Lee Valley still carries them. Which I suppose makes them classic or timeless rather than trendy or dated lol. Thankfully, especially in the all-consuming house building process, life is much easier when one isn't overly concerned about what is or isn't trendy.

The opposite of dated might be on-trend.

Interestingly, we deal only with old products. We salvage street pavers and cobblestones from the streets of our founding fathers, as well as bricks from old streets and buildings. And, never has anyone described our product as dated. Antique, salvaged, old, classic, Old World- sure- all of those are used to describe it. But, never dated.

See why:

Antique Barr Street Paver · More Info

Antique European Blend Cobblestone - Charlotte, NC · More Info

Antique Depot Bricks · More Info

Extreme Radical Clinker Bricks · More Info

Reclaimed Sandstone Curbing · More Info

Beautiful jobs, Gavin...I'm frankly envious.

I'm wondering if anyone has any input in whether things that are made well are classics, and those that are somewhat disposable are trendy?

I was trying to think of things that are fairly new that are classic, but my brain is fried and nothing would come to mind...help?

Beckysharp all I can say is Wow!

that post can be taken apart to cite and quote, that's for sure. You know that I have this strange thing about me-I can get into 'bouts of laugh so hard that I fall on the floor..well unless I'm sitting?

It's good I'm sitting

It's not old sad brass but new better brass, erm, I mean gold

beckysharp & april - You both have a gift for expressing your thoughts that I admire and envy. Thank you.

I'm wondering if anyone has any input in whether things that are made well are classics, and those that are somewhat disposable are trendy?

Well, a lot of those avocado and harvest gold appliances were very well made : ) . Some are still in use in the time capsule real estate photos palimpsest photos. But I don't think too many prospective homebuyers appreciate them or plan to keep them.

I think if "made well" includes good design, then that likely would qualify as a classic.

For the second part, about whether things that are somewhat disposable are trendy, I think that holds, for furnishings and for fashion. That's where you get the terms "fast fashion", and I guess you could add "fast furnishings" too. Then again, there are some items from Ikea that are someone disposable that I would considerable "modern classics" rather than trendy -- some of the the light fixtures, the Billy bookcase, the Raskog utility cart.

PS Thanks, dragonflywings : ) . It comes out more when I'm cranky lol.

I think I have chimed in on the "dated" concept pretty much every time it comes up. IMHO, this is how to make choices that are less likely to become dated:

1. Choose something one of a kind or hand made. f they haven't seen it before they can't time-stamp it.

2. Choose something not available domestically. I have a floral linoleum floor from the UK. Some people assume it is old because they cannot place it.

3. Choose something already dated or antique. Get them at their own game!

4. Choose something that matches your home's style, especially if it is not a cookie cutter house. Farmhouse tables don't look out in farmhouses, but might look out in a 1990's transitional.

5. Choose something too expensive to be ubiquitous. I have pewter countertops in my cabinet run. Not likely to look dated because I don't think I know of anyone else with them.

All that said, the Military Industrial Design Complex is undermining all of us as we write. It is their job to keep tweaking things so that every little thing in your life looks off every few years and must be done away with! The tiniest of details in everything you touch will rotate through styles just to drive you crazy. Warm colors, then cool. Sharp edges, then round. Ornate, then streamlined. Lather rinse repeat and spend all your money too!

LMAO@ "get them at their own game," and holy moly@ PEWTER COUNTERTOPS?? Pics, PLEASE!

i would add to the excellent advice (assuming one WANTS to avoid being "dated," and wants no part of "out with the old..."

value is in the eye of the owner. The reason you still see some avocado appliances is because back then, people weren't $h!tcanning perfectly good, expensive appliances because avocado was all the rage. They waited until what they had was melting all over the floor, and spent hard earned money on the latest kitchen trend and they LOVED IT. They probably never hated them a few years down the road because they had to work hard to get that look and so did their neighbors and god damn if they were going to toss them because white was back in and then toss the white bc SS was in and then oops now we need a counter-depth cabinet finished fridge! If these avocado fridges didn't melt all over the floor, they stayed. Cheap foreign products and soaring wealth have changed this dynamic

The good news is that this means enduring design is within reach of just about everyone. If you put time and care and the most you can afford, or hunt and hunt and wait for the great deal on something, then You are unlikely to tire of it. If you run out and outfit your entire place all at once in things that were easy to come by just to fill the void? You are living in a furniture store and you will have no enduring bond with any of the items. Further, all of the items will have scratched the itch of the moment, and will all come from the same fleeting design impulse and soon-to-be-dated fashion.

Would love to see pics of the floral linoleum and pewter countertop, mtnrd. I think I saw pics of the "zinc" counters way back when but would love to see them now.

I think it helps to remember that not everyone, especially in our own individual real life real worlds, is design obsessed, or in the words of the Kitchen forum, TKO (Totally Kitchen Obsessed) : ) . So there are likely a lot of uncommon, unusual (and probably not that expensive) choices people could make for their houses, compared to what the Joneses in the area are doing. Around here (rural Canadian prairie), granite and stainless steel appliances are still considered a big upgrade; my sisters-in-law recently forcibly rid my MIL of her mauve wallpaper border and co-ordinating items with mauve/baby blue geese with neck ribbons.

Where we are, even Ikea (esp kitchen and bathroom cabinetry) counts as odd, unusual, and suspiciously foreign : ) . Put Armac Martin brass hardware on them in the kitchen, and blue-and-white melon knobs from India on them in the bathroom, and you're an oddity indeed.

I have yet to order the blue and white tiles (probably talavera or Tabarka) for the kitchen backsplash, and anything that isn't earth-tone mosaic tiles on mesh is going to cement my reputation as the county lunatic...

It is their job to keep tweaking things so that every little thing in your life looks off every few years and must be done away with!

Yes. Planned obsolescence, grrr....

greenfish, once my parents bought all their furnishings, everything stayed in place -- it was a 2br prewar NYC apartment on the Upper West Side, so there was little room to move furniture around for a different look. And they pretty much didn't touch the 1920s kitchen at all, other than to repaint. The one change they made, to add more storage and countertop space, was to replace one of the two mid-height china cabinets that divided the kitchen from the eat-in space with an open cabinet topped by a butcherblock. They added a couple of outlets and a pegboard above the countertop.

They liked nice things and definitely bought quality (and waited until they could do so), but when they were done, they were done : ) .

What I like about so many of the time capsule RE estate photos pal posts is how clearly well-cared for and well-maintained everything is. That's a little-known concept right about now, esp when it's often easier and cheaper to get rid of things and start new. But the new things are never of the same quality.

I had a friend who was addicted to shopping...and I don't mean that as a joke. I understand the same brain chemistry is responsible for gambling and smoking and all addictions...anyway, perhaps the deeper meaning of "dated" is that an addict has it as a part of their vocabulary and non-addicts don't...

Maybe, "update" is the verbal equivalent of a pusher....

It's a pity I can't photoshop, because "the Military Industrial Design Complex " gave me couple funny ideas..involving old Soviet Posters..lol

It's a pity I can't photoshop, because "the Military Industrial Design Complex " gave me couple funny ideas..involving old Soviet Posters..lol

If you figure it out, add Chip and Joanna Gaines in uniform : ) . Military-Industrial Design Complex made me think of Modern Farmhouse Industrial lol.

You two, april and beckysharp, are KILLING me. I want that poster! I might have even written about my love for Soviet propaganda posters on an HT thread.

This is bringing up my economics classes at college (so so so) many years ago. Planned Obsolescence and Conspicuous Consumption were really so interesting. If you are not familiar, and even if you are, I believe it is worth reading up on Thorstein Veblen

+1 to Thorstein Veblen, esp his "Theory of the Leisure Class". Veblen was a strong influence on Vance Packard, who also wrote "The Waste Makers", where he tried to change the connotation of "consumerism" from a post-war positive to a negative (excessive materialism and waste).

The owners of that house pictured above in Charlotte North Carolina have clearly missed the irony of having a beautiful antique paved motor courtyard in front of that architectural abomination nouveau of a house. An on trend, but not dated, courtyard for a house that was dated the moment it rose from the ground.