Yeah, I dug mine up. In their place I erected two sections of split rail cedar fencing and planted the vine I really wanted right in the middle, a venus. Read that it can grow upwards of 20' in a season, the fence overall is about 25' long, and I'm keeping a two trunk vine that I plan to train across the rails in both directions. Been reading up on how to prune them, and so far I agree with the "let it grow however it wants the first year" so it gets a nice big root system, then start pruning it back to the main canes you want during the winter. I do have one question about this, although it won't be an issue for quite some time. I've read that if you let the vines touch the ground that they'll root themselves there (and that basically thats what you do when you make cuttings). Everything I've seen says to prevent this. Why? I've also seen where people say the best grapes will come from closest to the main trunk, presumably because thats the main source of water and nutrients to the plant. So why would you not want (after growing the vine large enough) to let the tips dip back down at the end to make an archway out of it? Give it trunks in the middle and each end to maximize roots and water and whatnot?

About soil tests......if you have never had one it is not a bad idea to get one done just to see what you are working with. That is the only way you can determine if you have any nutrient deficiencies you need to address. (caveat: home test kits are pretty much worthless - pay the bucks and have a professional lab prepare the test). You don't do multiple tests around the property. You gather soil from a variety of areas (your prime planting areas) and mix it together in a single sample. Most labs will tell you how to prepare the test sample and will ask what you are growing - crops, lawn, ornamentals. That will help them customize your test results. Once you get the results back, they will tell you your current nutrient load and if you need to amend at all. Generally, the only addition recommended will be nitrogen as that is the most mobile and transitory of the primary plant nutrients and the one most often lacking. And adding organic matter - compost - is the easiest and one of the most environmentally friendly ways to add nitrogen to an existing garden. Additionally, compost provides a full range of other nutrients in a low dose, organic process that encourages a healthy soil biology and discourages leaching into groundwater as one encounters with synthetic nutrients (from chemical fertilizers). Compost also improves soil structure, loosening heavy or clay soils, improving drainage and adding a degree of moisture retention to very sandy soils. If used as a mulch it will supress weed development, reduce evaporation of soil moisture and provide insulating capacities. It does however make a rather fertile seed bed for windblown weed seeds so some monitoring is required. I guess you are all going to do what you are going to do but fwiw, there is NO scientific evidence that dosing plants with epsom salts/magnesium sulfate encourages blooming. There is absolutely nothing in the product that affects a plant's biological inclination to bloom or not to bloom. Understanding how necessary plant nutrients work - or don't work - would go a long way in dispelling some of these myths about "miracle" fertilizers (ie. MiracleGro and its cousins) and other miraculous plant potions.

For Vandas if in right situation, it’s very difficult to overwater. They really don’t like pots or medium especially if not very open and at some point you will get in trouble unless they are in a pot with like wine corks or large horticultural chunk orchid charcoal. They want humidity at 50-70%. Or higher. So you need to have a greenhouse, grow room, natural outside summer humidity or in winter use a room humidifier inside your home or grow room. I think they do best growing on basket extender hooks of the appropriate length - just sit down in the bottom hook end and wire to the extender and hang on a pole with the hook on the other end. No media, no basket. Etc. Water twice a day in active growing season when the root tips are nice and green. But here is the trick — on sunny days water in the early morning until the roots are dark green. It may take several passes and then waiting 5-10 minutes and watering again. If the roots are dehydrated, it make take a bit to get them to start absorbing water. And then do the same in afternoon. In July/August when the temps in the mid to high 90s and up - I water an extra time - you have to determine this based on your environment. Once the plants are well hydrated, it won’t take as much time to get the roots to turn dark green. Note, some plants are a little harder to keep hydrated especially if they don’t have many roots. Those will need more water on the roots. They need high humidity to promote roots along the stems. I fertilize in the morning watering 25 ppm every day. I use K-Lite 12-1-1 with 10% calcium, magnesium and all the necessary trace minerals (from First Rays). I use KelpMax from First Rays once a month as directed. Once a month I use Better Grow’s Orchid Plus 1/2 tsp per gallon and I don’t use the k-Lite for a couple of days. Vandas are heavy feeders and mounted this way, they only get what runs off them - there isn’t any potting medium to hold fertilizer. Do not use a high dose fertilizer- don’t want to burn the roots. What is needed is a frequent low dose each day like they would get in their native jungle habitat. Most orchids like lots of water — the trick is to put them in media that’s well drained enough to take lots of water without rotting the roots and this includes a pot that will drain well too. I like Orchiata (pinus radiata from NZ) with orchid charcoal, LECA and very large orchid Sponge Rock. I like to use use white packing peanuts at the bottom of the pot and find orchid roots like them too. I use Power or Power Plus size of Orchiata so the mix drains very well in a clay pot with slots or holes. Or octagon large hole net baskets, or use a green plastic nursery bulb pot or a regular plastic nursery pot and use a wood burning tool to burn holes into the sides as desired. You can soak a clay pot overnight, put in a vise, use a hole bit to drill the appropriate size - have someone pour water over the pot as you drill.

Daren, Thanks so much for adding some real-world growing info and the great F3 data!!! In the end that is what will make the difference in whether there will be interest for anyone to actually make the effort to grow it. I think your comment on not sour (vs. acidity) and mine may be both accurate ... and the thing you don't like about the taste ... my problem too ... and what I wonder most is if yours were imported or grown right there in Ontario, not kept cold so long and picked closer to maturity = sweeter, low acid. The reason IMO that Sungold has that fruity taste is that it truely is low acid and extremely high sugar. It is more related to the sugar:acid ratio that give a sweet taste. The lingering aftertaste is fruity sweet in SG where Zima lingers more acid. And the acid hits my dentin and turns into acute dental pain on the next bite for me, so I notice ;-(. The first ones I ate were somewhat sweet, but once the experience is ruined by an aching tooth ... never happened with Santa nor any of my home grown 'maters. I just went to my grocer yesterday who has a few clamshells left over from the Zima promotion over three weeks ago, asking if they would just give me the ones with a few rotting ones inside instead of throwing those away. They told me, "They are not attracting flies yet" so we keep them (as if they could through that clamshell ... and there was one fruit fly ;-)) The tomatoes were from the shipment I bought and ate around 10 days ago, and a few began shriveling and three or four covered in gray mold but mostly they were still hard bullets. He told me to visit the dumpster in a few days if I wanted them since he would be fired for giving me the rotten tomatoes! (in which case I would have given anyone some for free via SASE). I explained I just wanted the seeds but you should have seen the look I got as the store manager who didn't grasp it so he told me if I wanted the seeds, why not buy the rotten packages from him for $4. each ;-) Thanks Daren, we have the same interest I think, so I'm going to look into the kumatos one of these days. Down here in Florida I have my first Santa F2 going and it is a race, but I think I'll make it. One plant really looks strong. It will be a good one to get some F3's since some nice grape shaped tomatoes have started and survived back to back 41 degree nights in a cold snap, which killed a few flowers on Better Boy and Cherokee Purple, and made fused blossoms on other varieties. It is performing just as well as my Supersweet 100's, but three weeks later, due to a later planting date by three weeks. Maybe when I get my Santa F3's in a month weather permitting we could swap some if you want. Did you try the Nectar hybrid tomato that is supposed to be super duper sweet, and very low acid? 10 seeds for $4-$5! PC This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Sat, Nov 8, 14 at 13:51