First make sure the first one meets the building code. Are they from the same manufacturer? The second one should be OK.

Yes, they’re both Pella. Thanks!

How about air infiltration rates? While the 2nd window has a lesser U-Factor, the reality is that it will likely give you better performance in your climate with some passive solar.

thank you for the reply. I’m doing my best to research and understand so bear with me! By air filtration rate, is that just another performance factor I should look up? I can’t locate it for these two particular windows. The windows have argon.

our house is out in the country with the whole front facing directly south. It’s a cape cod story and a half. The south side contains windows for the master, master bath, laundry and entry. The north side contains all the spaces we will spend the majority of our time in kitchen dining living... maybe that’s what you’re getting at with passive solar? Sorry if I’ve totally made you roll your eyes. First timer here!

sounds like I have two votes for the second window.

Are they different models or just different glass. What Pella model? Are they double-hungs or casements?

I'd be comparing different brands to those Pellas. Don't get hung up on those performance numbers, they mean very little in the way of energy savings.

These are both pella Impervia (fiberglass) double-hung. Just different glass.

If your choice is a binary between the two, Window #2 will work much better in your climate with some Southern Exposure glass.

Will you use the foam-filled frame option or NaturalSun Low-E insul. glass with argon?

I have not used the Impervia window but be cautious about using a window that is advertised as a replacement window or is sold at Lowes or only offers muntins between the glass.

I recommend looking at Marvin's Integrity fiberglass windows.

Here are the section details. It looks like a fiberglass copy of a builder grade vinyl window. The protruding screen will not be attractive IMO. You need to put your hands on this window and be sure it will look right on your house.

The glass in the casement will be flush with the siding.

Minnesota has 3 great sources of window. Marvin from Warroad, Andersen from Bayport and Pella from Pella, Iowa. Not to mention all the other great windows out there.

I agree with JDS, Integrity are incredible windows. I had them in two different houses and the difference before and after was dramatic. I also had Renewal by Andersen in a couple of windows in one house that had Integrity in the rest of the house. There was a slight difference in the operation and weather sealing between the two.

Is there a reason why you are going with double hung? Casements actually have a better sealing system to control air infiltration.

BTW, Passive Solar is a great thing, in the winter that is, no so much in the summer. With have a lot of glass facing south, the sun will warm up everything it touches. The floor, couch, rugs, etc.. and as the sun passes, these items will then give off the heat. If you have a tile floor on a concrete slab, you have a immense heat sink that will absorb and store a lot of heat. If you have carpet on a wood sub-floor you do not have much of a heat bank.

Have you experienced visible tints that bother you?

I don't think either would have a "noticeable" tint. Certainly the second allows more light and heat in.

They are both not so great u value. Not horrible just not great. That is probably what you really should be looking at.

Here are the details for the Integrity air-fiberglass windows. The design and appearance is superior to the Pella fiberglass window and applied munitions are available. I doubt the energy savings features are superior since its mostly about the glass offered.

JDS- they will be foam filled. with argon. I hear ya on being cautious. I really liked the look of the Marvin window but our builder advised against them. He used to recommend Marvin fiberglass until 2016 they had enough product failures for their North Dakota clients and a lack of customer service so it didn’t end up being a good fit and they parted ways. So Pella seemed next best regarding fiberglass options and our builder was comfortable with impervia and hasn’t had any issues to date with that line of their product.

Dan - we have a full basement under the home so the subfloor is wood and the top is slate tile or oak depending on the room. :)

Re why double-hung, I liked the function and appearance of the operable sashes. We picked out casement windows in the kitchen for appearance and basement for function a total of 6 casement. I think the double hung were just a little cheaper, but not much. I really wanted black windows, didn’t want wood, Marvin was out... so that is how we landed on pella Impervia.

keep ‘em coming guys! I’m so thankful for the feedback!

If you were considering the Marvin I'd look at the Andersen A series. Pella has a very poor reputation.

I just noticed your comment about your builder recommending Pella. Regarding his comment about Marvin's fiberglass issue - I remember that, but it was a brief one-off issue that Marvin corrected quickly. Compare that to Pella's decades of customer complaints and multiple class action suits for badly-made windows. If your builder has a contract with Pella, and big purchase orders already with Pella, of course he is going to recommend them. I'd do my own research.

I will go back to him and see if he would reconsider using Marvin again. Thank you.

any ideas on price difference between the two? Pella Impervia vs marvin integrity. Are we talking 20%... 30%... ? Or maybe there is another all fiberglass brand that offers Black I should consider?

im open to getting this right the first time. I don’t need to break the bank though. We live in a 100-year old house now with some vinyl and some wood windows so anything is likely an upgrade!

If you like double hungs, don’t mess them up with between-the-glass muntins

Now that the Pella bashing has begun I have to say I refuse to use them. I thought their fiberglass window might be ok til I saw the details.

Integrity wood ultrex is a much better window from a better company. I don’t like their all-ultrex window. Their Infinity replacement window is better but it may have limited Muntin and color. options

If you want to try Andersen the pvc clad wood will be too expensive and their black pvc cladding is awful. Not sure about their all-fibrex window. They keep adding model names.

For standard windows in MN I'd stick with Loewen first and Marvin second. I'd not get near Pella. Anderson's higher end do somewhat OK but lower end and replacement not so much. For better than Loewen you're looking at a lot more money for German made Passivehaus windows.

Casement will be better than double so if the style allows it then I'd go with that. If the style calls for it then stick with double.

I'm not sure about the muntins between the glazing mentioned above unless it's referring to that being the only thing and nothing on the interior and exterior. Personally I prefer interior and exterior plus matched between each glazing which is what we're doing with our Loewen triple glaze.

Also, different sides of the house often call for different windows from an energy standpoint so don't think that you need to match other than aesthetics. The west will be your biggest problem for solar heat gain in the summer (though biggest benefit in winter). The north and northwest get the coldest and the coldest winter winds so need extra protection.

Thank you! I have a running list of questions!

Regarding Loewen - I considered that brand, but they only had one dealer in 100 miles of my area. If you consider Loewen be sure to see if they have two or more dealers within 50 miles. If not, and your windows have a problem, it will be difficult to get service on them. Or, if there is only one dealer, and that one closes, you won’t be able to get service easily for them.

Is Marvin low e1 and low e2 cardinal glass? Is LoE-270 what Marvin calls Low E2?

Do you mean Marvin Integrity?

Is Marvin low e1 and low e2 cardinal glass?

Cardinal makes the glass for all the major windows manufacturers, including Marvin, Pella, Andersen, Kolbe, and many others. The glass doesn't differentiate the windows manufacturers one from the other; it's the window construction and other materials that differentiates them.

Is LoE-270 what Marvin calls Low E2?

It is Cardinal which makes "LoE2" glass (the "2" is a superscript I can't type on my device). Within the LoE2 category are two variations, LoE-270 and LoE-272. When I bought my Marvin windows, I was told they had LoE-272 coating. I doubt there is much difference between 270 and 272. I actually think you are getting too bogged down in these statistics. Go see the windows on display somewhere (the manufacturers websites will tell you where there are showrooms). Definitely look at several brands like Marvin Integrity wood-Ultrex (not the Infinity) and Andersen. That will make your mind up much better than getting overly focused on numbers.

Well numbers of course are important from an energy standpoint. If you are stuck with Pella and a budget, then construction difference don't matter as much.

Just to agree with what was said - all glass essentially is cardinal glass. The manufacturers put clever marketing names on different versions. The right way to do SHGC is to vary it based on orientation (side of house) and shading. Very few people do that, code limits you somewhat, and so you will earn the disdain of your builder and window reps. That might be something worth it to you but just know that you might face an uphill battle.

I have .19 shgc even on North windows. Probably could have saved $50 a window to correct that.

I will disagree with one thing, depending on shading, South windows may need the best SHGC (rather than West). It also probably depends on climate. Here in NC, we a/c for 4+ months and an uncovered South window has sun for more of the day than a West window. We have overhangs for the South windows that block the direct sun from May - August or so. Without the overhangs, it would be a lot of sun. No one even on green building forums suggested going to a higher SHGC number on those windows - because of reflectance. Even though heating is a bigger issue than cooling even down here.

For the Marvin Integrity model I believe Low E2 is Cardinal LoE-270 glass and Low E3 is Cardinal's LoE3-366 glass.

Thank you to everyone! Seriously, it helps! I’m in rural MN so I don’t have many showrooms close and the ones we do have don’t have the full lines on hand. I did locate Integrity and Pella showrooms though that aren’t far so I will ask they order a sample for me. Hope the price difference is in budget and builder is willing to accommodate!

so for the south side windows, we have a 16”overhang. The gable ends are perfectly east and west. West has just a few windows, including basement windows so not too worried there’s The south is full exposure all day, no shade so I should look for a lower shgc for those? Like friedajune said I don’t want to get too wrapped up in The numbers but I do want to understand your points.

Per this website, it looks like our overhang will provide able shade to our south windows may-August and virtually none fall, winter, and spring - if I entered all the info correctly. Pretty cool tool:

http://www.susdesign.com/overhang/

Any dealer should have windows for you to inspect without ordering anything.

Is there a reason you are wedding to fiberglass windows? I have Marvin windows (DH) that are aluminum clad on the outside and wood inside. They are simulated divided lite. I could not be happier with these windows - upstairs have been installed for about 8 years; 1st floor for 6.

Fiberglass due to durability and maintenance. How often do wood interior windows need painting/staining?

To stay in the Pella all-fiberglass price range you are not likely to buy a clad wood window. The decision should be made between Integrity all-ultrex and Andersen all-fibrex. To do that you must see the windows. My dealer sells both and has many examples in his showroom.

I omitted Pella all-fiberglass because the frame looks like a vinyl window, the muntins are between the glass and the company Is terrible to deal with..... The trifecta.

Mae507, a good interior paint job on ALL the woodwork should last 20-30 years! Of course, this means using an oil-based enamel paint (some states no longer allow this), a primer and two finish coats. My windows look as good as they did the day they were installed!

I am old fashioned, I admit. But I would not be happy with windows that were vinyl inside my house. I want wood and I want simulated divided lites.

"Minnesota has 3 great sources of window. Marvin from Warroad, Andersen from Bayport and Pella from Pella, Iowa."

There are others definitely worthy of consideration, but the first thing to do is remove Pella from that list as no pro I am aware would consider Pella great at anything.

Stick with the Integrity as JDS suggests.......................

I have always ordered clad wood windows with pre-painted interiors and simulated divided lights. I've seen all-fiberglass and all-composite windows and not been impressed.

Mae507, I think you may be distracted by the wrong issues. Windows with poorly designed sash, screens, sills and hardware can have good energy ratings because of new glass technology.

Here are some reviews from Consumer Reports:

Submitted 2 years ago

By DrewLM

From Virginia

The handles on the top frame of double-hung windows are overlapped by a metal lip, so if you have your fingers in the handles (nowhere else to put them) when you put the window all the way up, the metal lip jams into your fingers. Absolutely stupid design. The windows have a tight seal, but when you close the bottom half of a double-hung window, it sometimes pulls the top half down just a tad, so that when you go to lock them, the latch misses, so they look locked, but they aren't at all secure. And if you try to use the handles of the top half to push it back up, you get your fingers pinched. So, you can't use the handles to push the top half up, and there isn't much else to grip to, so trying to secure your windows can be a real frustration.

-------

Submitted 3 years ago

By Lisa

From Rosemount, MN

Our Pella windows are poor in quality. We have had problems since day one. The window in our master bedroom was defective and caused water damage. The windows throughout the house have moldy window casings and the company nor installer are taking credit for the mess. We have condensation resulting in ice buildup around the windows.

This is typical of most all-fiberglass and all-composite windows.

Here is the Integrity wood-ultrex window detail.

JDS- a huge thank you to you for putting extra time and detail into my question. Absolutely mind blown by you and this community who’s reaching out to help.

If I’m understanding everyone correctly if I want fiberglass go with Integrity. If budget allows go wood clad. Don’t focus too much on the numbers but first the construction and reputation.

anyone know the price difference between the two (integrity fiberglass and Marvin or Anderson wood clad). Anglo- I’m not so worried about the wood anymore thanks to your comments and a few searches. :)

Everyone, I went to the Marvin and Pella show rooms yesterday. The difference was painfully obvious even for a rookie like me. The Pella looked like vinyl. The corners overlapped on the exterior and they only had a casement on display. No double hung, no doors, and no black like I was interested in. Also, no sales rep on site but a receptionist to point me to the basics, “lots of info online” though. Yes, I could have told them I was coming to avoid that but the product display was unimpressive and that wouldn’t have changed had I told them I was coming. Marvin on the opposite end of the spectrum. Several windows on display. Appeared to be the full line of Marvin and Integrity. Loved the wood interior Ultrex model. Very hefty feeling windows with smooth operation. Sales rep was helpful and reviewed my plan right then. Should have my price quote on Thursday! Will keep you all posted in case you’re curious. THANKS again all!

All, the Integrity all Ultrex bid came in lower than Pella Impervia?! What?!

There you go. I am not as familiar any longer with the exact pricing but that sounds like a winner, although I prefer the esthetics of the Wood Ultrex I would certianly take the All Ultrex over anything Pella.

I agree. Thanks!

The appearance of the Wood-Ultrex is so much better than the all-Ultrex, I would not even consider the all-Ultrex. You will be looking at it for years. Just my $.02 FWIW.