Ladyblues, we have a problem. This is an organic forum where we discuss organic solutions to growing and protecting plants. Your solution, while it may have worked for you, is not an organic solution to those pests. Here's the gist of the problem(s): I didnt want to use any poisons All you used were poisons. Of course everything is poisonous if you use enough of it right? Well nicotine in the amount you used might not present an immediate problem but the fact that nicotine in any amount is disapproved for use in an organic program is a problem for this list. Rubbing alcohol is a poison in almost any amount and it is disapproved in an organic program except to sterilize equipment. The organic problem with any alcohol in organics is that alcohol kills the beneficial microbes living in the soil AND ON THE SURFACE OF THE PLANT. Organic gardening is ALL about promoting and feeding these beneficial microbes. Mouthwash, being 25% alcohol, is just as bad a pure alcohol. Here are two affordable organic solutions to your specific insect pest problems. You can spray with diluted liquid seaweed. Hmmm, this is not really an affordable solution. Here's a much more affordable solution. Dilute milk at a rate of 3 ounces per gallon and spray that on your plants every 2 weeks. I dilute it even more. What I do is when I finish a container of milk, or when my girls finish their cereal in the morning, I rinse the container or bowl with water and pour it into a spray bottle. This is essentially free organic "insecticide." The way these materials work is that they promote and feed the beneficial microbes living outside the plant on the leaf and stem surfaces. Research has shown that there are between 10 and 20 layers of microbes living there - right in the full sun! When these microbes are well fed with protein and carbohydrates (not to mention minerals and vitamins), they will help the plant to protect itself. In essence, the sucking insects seem to avoid these healthier plants. If you use the same materials or others such as ordinary corn meal, flour, soy bean meal, used coffee grounds (another free source), or other ground up nuts, beans, and seeds, on the surface of the soil at a rate of one heaping handful scattered under each plant every month, then your plants will be on their way to resisting all of the normal pests we have. Scatter these materials well so you don't get piles of the stuff. If you get piles they will stink when wet. Good organic materials and practices are not stinky - and they don't have to be expensive or a hassle to use.

The following statement was made: "Most of the neem oil products are probably no more effective than salad oil." --------------------------------------- I agree, but how can one tell which Neem products are not part of this "most"? Answer: Look at the active ingredient. The active insecticidal component of neem oil is a chemical called azadirachtin. If the label states azadirachtin (in at least a 1.5 % concentration), the product should be effective against common rose insects when applied as directed on the label. However, if the label only states: "clarified hydrophobic extract"; then the product will probably only work by smothering and you might as well be spraying salad oil. Here is an example of a scientific study concerning the two-spotted spider mite : Title: Uptake, translocation, persistence and fate of azadirachtin in aspen plants (Populus tremuloides Michx.) and its effect on pestiferous two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) Authors: K. M. S. Sundaram, R. Campbell, L. Sloane and J. Studens Authors affiliation: Forest Pest Management Institute, Canadian Forest Service, Natural Resources Canada, 1219 Queen Street East, Box 490, Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada P6A 5M7 Published in: Crop Protection, Volume 14, Issue 5, August 1995, Pages 415-421 Abstract: "A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A) was applied to the soil around the root system of potted aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) plants. The uptake, translocation, persistence and dissipation of the chemical in the plants were studied. The effect of foliar residues of AZ-A on two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) populations was also evaluated. The compound was taken up by the root system within 3 h and translocated in the stem and foliage within 3 days, confirming that AZ-A is systemic. The peak concentrations (/g, fresh weight) of AZ-A occurred at 10 days post-treatment, and were distributed in roots, stem and foliage in the ratio of 8.1:1.0:2.3, respectively. The rate of dissipation of AZ-A from the matrices was moderately rapid, and the residual concentrations on the last day of sampling (50 days post-treatment) in roots, stem and foliage were in the ratio 2.7:1.0:1.2, respectively. Control of mites by AZ-A residues in foliage was statistically significant, and the bioactivity declined within 30 days. The final residue of AZ-A in the soil after 50 days was about 25% of the initial value, with a half-life of dissipation of about 26 days." ----------------------------------------------- The following link leads to a 2005 Ph.D. Thesis: http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=979446007&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filename=979446007.pdf Here is a link that might be useful: link for Sundaram et.al. abstract

here are some photos of these leaves. this particular photo also has a lady bug croc on it so that's at least good. but how much impact can a few lady bugs have on the bazillions of pests that are on these leaves, really? Here is a link that might be useful: photo

Hi GreenDreamhome: I applaud your experimenting, and would love to hear the results. Years ago we had a drought, with temp. over 100, my Eglantyne rose had spider-mites from the nursery. Spraying with water didn't help. It was planted near a brick border, which reflected the heat onto the rose. I kept pruning, that didn't help. Finally I moved it away from the brick border, to a partial shade location, with a wet manure mulch. After spraying with water, I used 70% rubbing alcohol with paper towel to rub off the affected branches. That rose was freed of spider mite, and sprouted healthy leaves. I checked all the sites on spider-mites, and could not find garlic as effective. From U. of Colorado Extension: "Spider mites: Symptoms of injury include flecking, discoloration (bronzing) and scorching of leaves. Natural enemies include small lady beetles, predatory mites, minute pirate bugs, big-eyed bugs and predatory thrips. One reason that spider mites become a problem is insecticides that kill their natural predators." **** From Straw: Ever since I rubbed off all the branches with alcohol & pruned off the tip ... zero spider-mite in my garden for the past 3 years. I planted lots of Calendula which host green lacewings. Best wishes in combating spider-mites, they are hard to get rid off. From eHow: "Spider Mite Predators - Three main predators are: phytoseiulus persimilis, neoseiulus californicus and mesoseiulus longipes. All three are effective in temperature levels from 55 to 100 degrees and in humidity as low as 45 percent. Beneficial Insects - Green lacewings can be introduced to a garden as larvae and will consume spider mite populations. Ladybugs & Praying mantis and spined soldier bugs have been used to combat mites." Some info. from below link: "Washing away the mites' webs will interrupt their natural life cycle and prevent them from multiplying. Use a strong blast of water to wash. Do this in the morning for three days in a row. You can use a hand-held vacuum to remove the mites and webs from your plants. After vacuuming the plants, place the contents of the canister in a plastic bag and put the bag in the freezer for several hours to kill the mites." *** From Straw: the spider-mite infestation of my Eglantyne was so bad that if I had pruned more, it would had been too short. That's why I rubbed the branches & some leaves with paper towel doused with rubbing alcohol. When I wiped the kitchen floor with 70% alcohol, even ants got killed. The advantage of alcohol is it evaporates quickly, easily washed off, and won't harm beneficial insects introduced later on to the garden. Calendula seeds are sold cheap & the flowers are pretty & edible & used for medicinal purpose. I also use calendula petals in cooking to give rice-casserole a yellow color. Calendula thrives in hot & dry conditions, and host green lacewings which devour both aphids and spider mites. See picture of yellow Calendula flower that I used in my bouquet, along with red Firefighter rose: Here is a link that might be useful: Organic ways to stop spider mites This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Wed, Apr 2, 14 at 18:16