TeatimeAnn - So nice of you to remember my little condo kitchen. Thanks! No physical progress, but some of the HOA issues have been resolved... (Sigh) It has been quite a process. We have been working with the Home Owners Association board since February to determine the scope of our project. To make a very long, sad, story short... we will be able to accomplish a lot of our remodel, but we will not be able to add certain "common area" (read as inside the walls and ceiling) items. For example, no recessed lights, no gas line for a range, no exterior kitchen vent for the range etc. I am in California, so no recessed lighting might be a challenge to meet title 24 requirements. We are just now getting copies of all the required contractor documents for the HOA and will hopefully be able to start the demo soon. I've stopped holding my breath. Once the walls are open, then we get to reapply with the HOA and see what they approve for the remodel. Then it will be off to the city to see what they have to say. What a crazy, disappointing process.

Welcome to Kitchens! Do you need the peninsula? Is there a reason for it? Have you considered an "L" with the range on the "top" wall and the sink on the right wall (using the drawing w/dimensions to determine left/right, top/bottom)? Here are some ideas. I tired to keep the plumbing as close as possible to the original location. Oh, in all except Layout #3, the counter run along the right wall is 27" deep with 15" deep uppers. This gives you a bit more workspace on the counter and quite a bit more storage in the upper cabinets. You'd be surprised how much of a difference those 3" make in upper cabinets! The cabinet above the sink is farther off the surface and could be a dish rack for both utilitarian as well as aesthetic value. .. .. .. This one is probably my favorite... Plenty of prep space, plenty of room around the range, decent pantry space, and more open. I'm of two minds concerning the MW. It could be put in the corner as I show it, but it could also be a MW drawer in the 24" cabinet to the left of the range. In the corner, it gives you the full height of the 24" cabinet for storage. In the drawer, it opens up the counter completely and is more open. (That cabinet to the left of the range must be drawers. If it has doors, you'll need around an 1" of filler b/w the wall and cabinet so the cabinet might have to be narrower...assuming full-overlay or frameless cabinets.) Here it is with the primary zones marked (I put a MW drawer in this one so you could see it): Why a double-bowl, 36" wide sink? Because (1) it allows you to use one bowl for prepping and one for dirty dishes and (2) the larger bowl can be 21" wide...approx the same width you would get using a single-bowl, 24" wide sink base. Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

Johnliu, regarding the shared garage wall, there is a huge three door antique mahogany cabinet that is on that shared wall between the kitchen and garage that can't be moved. I use it as my pantry storage. The fridge would have to go in the very corner where the stove is now and would only be able to be recessed about 6 inches back to allow for the interior access door to the garage to still open fully and I'm not sure that it would be worth cutting into the wall like that although it would stop the fridge from sticking out so far and that's a good thing. Remodelfla, do you think it it easier to access the full susan rather than the blind corner? The blind corner would allow the sink to be more under the window and would give me about an extra 12 inches on that wall to put towards something (blind 39x24 or corner susan 36x36). I was going to get the fancy pull out for the half susan and keep my pots and pans there. I see that some corner susans come in 33x33 but the door opening is about 3 inches smaller and this may not work so easily for the skillet or dutch oven? I see that you have your smaller appliances in there - do you also store the pots and pans in there? I don't think I have many accessories: the food processor (basement - rarely used, this is probably why), KA stand mixer (basement - brought up for the holidays and kept on top of the fridge) and a toaster (top of fridge) but when I want to use it I have to unplug the coffee maker to make toast. It would be nice to have a place for these in the actual kitchen but I have to be realistic about the footprint I have to work with, don't I? Mnerg, I don't know why I am struggling so much with the thought of an 18 in dw. I know I want a DW and when I went to see an 18 next to a 24, my thoughts were not much difference, most visible on top with one less row for cups, glasses or small dishes but we seem to use so many more glasses during the day than actual dishes! And thank you for the comment about the best stretch of counter space - that did not occur to me but makes great sense - you open the fridge, close the fridge and you are done. The stove is in constant use while cooking and having more than just that 18 in between the sink and stove on the outside wall may not be enough and is actually a throwback to my parent's kitchen growing up - my mother's kitchen was an L and big enough for a table with 4 chairs but on the short L she only had the wall, the stove, 6 inches of counter, the sink and then the blind corner with a stack of drawers, the 24 in dw, then the fridge and a small pantry. She always complained about lack of counterspace when cooking. Personally I don't think she needed to squeeze a table in there but that's what she wanted. Thank you everyone for taking the time to post. I appreciate your comments.

".... we have removed the drywall to see our limitations..." Good. Good. Hidden in your simulation drawings are a pony wall under the sink counter and a floor to ceiling drain pipe in a pillar/column/cabinetry tower. Question about drain pipe: plastic or metal? Plastic ("PVC") or metal ("cast")? Why: noise when drainage water from above drops down the pipe. You need to know how much to wrap it, how much to insulate it. This means you have less storage inside the tower, or more, depending on whether it's PVC or cast. Pony Wall: not a big limitation. I'm certain you can work it into your storage that will be accessed from the dining room side. Sink Drain pipe is where it is. Answer: can have a double sink or two separate sinks emptying into that one drain pipe. Either one P trap, or 2 Ptraps one of which is AAV-vented. Btw, calling something stacked is ultimately going to lead down that same road again, towards humor that is only temporarily funny but not good for the long term. Please just call it an apartment condo just like the million other apartment style condos in urban highrise buildings -- even though yours isn't in a skyscraper. july, I skimmed through your previous thread and saw that the humor had been cleaned up. Good. I liked the fun but now it's over. Working inside a space that has a couple of strongly-worded physical limitations, like a condo with pipes that "have to stay", I find you have to keep an open mind. As you get underway,, you may find that some things CAN be reduced in size to be smaller than you thought. The pony wall might get shrunk and shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. If you post about it in the Remodeling Forum, with an excruciating amount of detail, you may find people give you a number of good ideas about how to reduce it or integrate it into your storage. Kitchen forum people are, for the most part, not experienced renovator builder types, and of those who ARE, they are mostly not interested in asking about studs (spacing and sizing), the physical reasons for a structure, and the mechanical aspects of structures. Hint hint. You've been told. When you are building your sink counter run, you might discover that the pony wall can be made to disappear for all intents and purposes, as long as... (see new thread about the pony wall). In this forum the pony wall is not a productive subject. In this forum you get people who accept things as given. I'm certain you can work the pony wall into your storage that will be accessed from the dining room side, or find an even better alternative. What you are doing with the pony wall and with the drainwrapping cabinetry is like urban in-fill construction, where your plans on paper represent most of what ultimately gets built, but not all. The plans are a subjective guide not a strict order. In an infill project, when you come across an opportunity to grab a few more inches you grab those inches. You are expanding your kitchen from the inside while apparently maintaining the same footprint. Also good to know, as knowledge that allows you to understand your options: it is permissible to rebuild drain pipes so that they zigzag downwards. Drains are always built with zigzag offset bends in order to allow the pipe to expand and contract normally and remain roughly the same size from floor to floor, so it is acceptable to add an offset in the drain. This is merely good to know, and not a recommendation to consider this as an option unless there is a big reason for it. In 2011, the pony wall may be a strongly worded physical limitation because the humans who dominated the committee at that point in time used their existing knowledge to the best of their abilities at that point in time. But, you may find that this or any other socalled requirement issued by the committee disappears as you progress through the renovation and AS you persist in your pursuit, showing things and explaining things to people who don't know everything that you now know as you renovate. Committees have been known to be wrong, to drop previous requirements, etc. I have seen many cases of committees that write and say one thing and then hire workers to do the opposite thing, even while the committee maintains its written position. The one or two committee members who know what's really happening don't mind the doublespeak, and the other committee members are comforted by the nice wording in the resolution that they voted for, and truly believe that the wording described what really got built no matter how much time you spend talking to them. About the sliver piece of countertop that crosses the tower: this kind of detail is best handled by an architect, or a high level designer, or a good taste handyman, WHEN you get closer to there and when you truly have built that tower thingie that way. Right now it's idle thinking, too far in advance. You don't know yet whether your tower will be that size. Hth,