"Working on the basement, it seems that my options open up dramatically if the stairs are on the Right."

I know you have looked high and low for an architect, but you are experiencing the drawbacks of not having an architect. An architect would work out each level and each elevation to be a unified design. Many times when one small part of the design is changed the whole design is effected and the design's unity is destroyed, the plan becomes a composition of parts and the occupants adapt to it.

As far as your question, with the amount of design (floor plan) shown, it does not matter. Both entry and stair empty into the great room in both alternatives.

CP-Thank you. I wasn't originally (1.5 years ago) planning to vault the entry. However, I have since seen similar rustic designs where they added smaller beams to the foyer and am swaying that direction. I've just had it in my head that the stairs should be on the left...I think it is just harder to visualize them on the same side as the fireplace after a year of thinking they would be on the other side

Mark-Thank you. Since my second floor has been the basement, I have been less worried about it. It is for the kids for the next 10-15 years. My inspiration photos all seem to have the entry on the fireplace side, so I've been stuck on that. Even when I went and staked the rough house last fall (to make sure we wouldn't have any restrictions...hard telling in a forest), I couldn't make my circle driveway work well with the entry on the right. I will gain so much more having it on the left, I just don't want it to be an odd entrance for guests.

Before, I was concerned about the visual weight of the stairs and fireplace wall all on the right side.

This is not something you would really experience. The more important aspects are what the relative position does to circulation and furniture layout.

I think furniture layout is problematic for the great room generally, and the interaction that I don't care for is this

Palimpsest-Thsnk you...seems I was worried for nothing. The left side you show is the dining. Kitchen is on other side of entry. I didn’t want super open, but will still have a view of living from kitchen/dining (but more importantly k/d have their own great view!). I am planning to put a loveseat against the first beam line (closest to entry), a couch and coffee table across from the fireplace, and DH recliner closer to window. The space between the left living room “wall” and the fireplace is 15 feet, but I’ve been debating increasing to 16 feet. With fireplace, living room is 17*19 plus the walkway between entry and living. I should have enough room to enter on either side of the loveseat.

I also prefer the feeling of the fireplace more inside the room.

Well...as Mark said, what you are learning is what all architects know: Each floor of an architectural design is connected to and interacts with one another. And site planning interacts with floor plan ideas. And floor plan ideas interact with exterior massing, scale and style.

Said differently, an architectural design is a holistic design. It's not the design of one sphere of the project at a time.

And as Mark said, the location of the stair in the entry, on the first floor level, appears to make no difference. What is important about the first floor element which you have shown is whether, or not, your desired furnishings can be installed in the living space as you desire, and whether, or not, that open space on the left (presumably into the dining area) allows you to place your furniture logically.

Good luck on your project.

Virgil- Thanks...sounds like switching the stairs and entry on the main floor makes no difference visually from the living or the foyer, except maybe better directing the view outside. The benefits of the foyer in the left are a better front yard/driveway. The main floor was my priority as DH intends to live here for 20+ years. The basement is mostly all for the kids for the next 10-15 years. So while I have a crazy wishlist for their rooms, I felt it could surely be done in an almost 2500 sq ft basement! This swap allows me to move the guest bedroom, excercise room, bar and booth to a better location. So, while the basement was a lower priority than the main floor, I am Super Excited to see the impact on the rooms and especially to not feel like I am spending such a huge amount on a basement that doesn’t thrill me!

As others have hinted, this is a myopic view of the house. I wouldn't dare offer design advice with so little information. I normally work not only with plans, and elevations but with a 3D computer model that allows me to move through the space and create vertical and horizontal section views.

Why is the stair landing so large? Shouldn't the stair be a bit farther from the doorway?

Aligning the stair risers may be easy to draw but it requires a drop in the handrail or a discontinuous handrail. Switchback stairs require careful detailing.

Take this—as a bubble diagram— to Anna gal architect. It’s not really buildable as is. Even for a first draft. The stairs are a big giant disconnect, instead of being a positive linking mechanism. Huge issue.

JDS-I’m not understanding what you mean? I am doing switchback stairs with a 4-5 foot deep landing.

I copy/pasted the entry and stairs for the second photo just to show switching them...not sure if that is what you are referring to about the stairs lining up?

For the handrail, do you mean that the rail can’t have a nice 6-8 inch turn at the landing? It seems like the handrails I’ve seen go down evenly for the first half of the flight, turn 90 degrees, go straight for the width of the wall (plus rail distance), turn 90 degrees again, then continue down the second half of the stairs. Is that what you mean? I do agree that the stairs will need more detailing. And I will be hiring a good stair guy to create them...DH won’t build these even though we are DIYing a lot and he has done other stairs.

Im not sure why there is the extra step at the basement level, it isn’t my preference. These stairs are drawn with a 7/11 rise/run. So altering that some should eliminate the need for the extra step at the bottom if I don’t want it down there.

Sophie-Very interesting take. The entry/living/stairs are nearly the same as a house (not on Houzz) that WAS designed by an architect and cost roughly a million to build (larger home than mine). What about this space is unbuildable?

A 7" riser and an 11" tread is used for public stairs to accommodate the handicapped. For able bodied people it would feel like you weren't rising or descending fast enough. The most comfortable stair for a residence is a 7 1/2"' riser and a 10" tread. It also takes up less space.

JDS-I posted here a few weeks ago asking everyone’s preference. DH is taller, so I know I want a good 11 for the run. I was thinking 7.25 for the rise, but the consensus was that while it may be just fine for DH and kids, guests may appreciate 7.

Riser and Tread dimensions are not chosen independently nor by foot size; they are chosen as a pair using a much studied ratio of rise to run that is comfortable for climbing and maintaining balance. The angle should not be too steep nor too shallow. Here is the source used by architects for the past 50 years:

From the chart, the choices from low slope (slow climbing) to high slope (faster climbing) are:

7 & 11

7 1/4 & 10 1/2

7 1/2 & 10

7 3/4 & 9 1/2 (where allowed by code)

The middle two are the most comfortable (neither rising too slowly nor too quickly and providing a good sense of balance) and are therefore the most common for residences (I like 7 1/2 & 10 perhaps because I am 6-2).

The first one is for public buildings and "monumental staircases". They feel a bit slow to climb causing some to lean forward but its an acceptable ratio..

The last one is for secondary or basement stairs (where allowed by code).

If your husband is tall, I doubt he will like 7 & 11 so consider the next steeper (7 1/4 & 10 1/2).

I don't know what would be lost by a little more definition in the lower right corner:

Palimpest-I don't think that would work right with the dining space?

I am planning on the kitchen/dining ceilings being 9 ft and the living room ceiling starting at 10 ft, so that should help define the space. There will also be a beam truss on the ceiling where the living room starts, so it should be pretty defined?

Here is the adjacent space. I think a post/wall would block the view from the kitchen/dining more than I want

I don't know why not. Decades ago it would have been this, and other than being separate rooms, it worked competely fine. I am not suggesting closing off to this extent, but you don't need 15 foot wide openings to get from room to room.

The border between the dining room and great room is almost completely useless space: it's undefined, I doubt you are going to float furniture there. The room isn't big enough. Theres not enough wall space to put a sofa centered on the fireplace without it hanging half in front of a wall half not.

If it was my house, I'd consider something like this:

For able bodied people it would feel like you weren't rising or descending fast enough. The most comfortable stair for a residence is a 7 1/2"' riser and a 10" tread. It also takes up less space.

I disagree. I had my risers reduced to 7" with a 10" tread and it feels just right. While 7 1/2" might be fine for a man who's 5'11" this 5'3" (ok almost 3") woman who's getting up there in years, prefers the 7" rise with her knees.

That kitchen as you have it designed is poorly laid out. I would vet your kitchen in the kitchen forum. Yes it's a large kitchen but you'll need roller skates to do anything in it.

Palimpest- I see what you are saying. Any of the newer homes I have been in have been able to effectively indicate a different room by a ceiling change. (It's the rooms with the same ceiling height that the transition is more awkward to me. I can see how why you like the idea of a post/wall in the corner. I've also seen that in some of the new builds, and haven't ever been drawn to it. The living room is 17 ft wide (including fireplace). I have previously drawn in furniture (worked at a high end furniture company during college doing furniture floorplans), and have enough room to float the couch a few feet from the left living room "wall". That way DH can walk behind the sofa to go to the kitchen. A post would block my view of the living room from the island more than I wanted. I also did not want the only view from the island to be the living room TV like 90% of today's plans. I am doing a sideboard to the left of the dining room, then a large dining table. There will be some circulation space to the right of the table/chairs, but not a massive amount.

These are a few of my inspiration photos, and the ceiling beams will be very much like this....I think they will very clearly define the space.

Virgil-My original question was asking if it was okay to more the stairs to the right. Would you have the entry on the left, and just bring the kitchen/dining back the 4 feet of the " hallway"? I don't want to have just a 3-4 foot wall extending beyond the cabinets...and am planning the door to the deck in the dining room but next to (a foot away from) the stovetop cabinets, so liked the walkway there. I could push the kitchen and dining back...however if the entry is on the left side, then I loose the covered portion of the deck!

A lower angle of rise places your center of gravity more forward as you climb and a steeper angle places it more to the rear, so lower is better than higher therefore a 7 in 10 ratio is better than a 7 3/4 in 10 ratio but 7 in 11 would be even better although I don't believe age or posture was part of the many studies of this subject.

CP-The kitchen was vetted several months ago. Because my pantry was to the left of the kitchen, it was suggested that I also have the fridge and stovetop over there. I am not willing to give up the centered large window/sink at the front. I don't currently want a sink in the island, but do intend to go ahead and run a plumbing line for one incase I change my mind in a year or 20!

The right side will be a huge baking cabinet, so not normally needed and not at the same time as the stove.

"...Virgil-My original question was asking if it was okay to more the stairs to the right..."

Sorry, my bad. I got lost in the dueling illustrations! :-)

Yes, of course the stair can be moved to the right, if you wish. The stair landing (in either location) doesn't need to be any deeper than about 4-feet, with a minimum depth equal to the clear stair tread width.

The issue which concerns me, however, is the clear spatial definition along the fireplace wall, the opening to the right, and the relocated stair on the right, versus the vague spatial sense on the left, where the kitchen and dining openings just seem to "happen" and don't have any real purpose of definition.

If it was my house, I'd consider extending the kitchen wall as I've shown to align with the living room wall. I'd then either use that space for enlarged kitchen or dining functions...or I'd reverse the opening so it faced the stairs and make recessed niche or design feature oriented to the entry. It would be a great place for a special storage unit and a wonderful piece of art above. Lighting of the niche would make it special day and night!

What is the desirable and optimum rise and run for a stair...?

The answer is...it all depends. JDS is certainly correct about the ratios which architects have used for a great many years.

Interestingly, original Colonial settlers in the U.S. and Roman builders during the reign of Rome used very different ratios.

I have found for my self, at my advanced age and physical condition, that a 7.5 and 10 ratio is not at all comfortable, especially when I am descending the stair, inasmuch as my foot tends to overhang the 10-inch tread, where I can easily slip down to the next tread if I'm not paying attention.

I much prefer a 7 and 11 ratio. I'd certainly recommend that for any design where empty nesters or a "more mature" user, like myself, will be the occupant.

But like all things...it depends.

Ironically, the acceptable ratios for exterior stairs in the landscape is often much more gentle, in the range of 6 and 12, or thereabouts.

The point is, when it comes to stairs, don't depend on historical ratios and don't simple take stairs for granted. Stairs are certainly one of things every homeowner should spend as much time considering, as...say...the color of the granite countertops!

I'm not sure that I understand the point of being able to see the entire living room from the kitchen and vice versa, but okay.

My feeling with some of those pictures above is that I am looking at a moderately priced furniture showroom, as much as a house.

Virgil-Are you saying you would prefer this layout?

Yes...or else, something like this:

Thanks Virgil. I am going to mull this over. The niche space is really neat.

I think the inspiration photos are more similar to my floorplan. Thinking about it, the full vault will actually start at the beginning of the hallway, against the entry/stairs. There will also be wood flooring in both the hallway and living (and dining and entry). So the hallway becomes somewhat part of the living room, but acts more as the circulation space. However, I do see benefits to both.

I see you drew a wall at the stairs. I'm guessing part of that is the stairs going beyond the fireplace/bookcase stud wall. If I move the stairs/entry, they will only go 15 feet of the 17 feet width of the living room (the stud wall would be 2 feet). I have been contemplating expanding the living room width to 18 feet total, so 16 feet between the dining room and fireplace. I've been contemplating it for awhile now, but seems like everything else keeps adding sq ft!

B Carey - The problem with your floorplan vs. the inspiration pictures are that you have a 3rd partial wall in the great room vs. the inspiration pictures appears to only have 2 walls and then completely open.

I encourage you to draw in the furniture placement in that great room to see how it will work for you with the floorplan as drawn. Measure your current furniture and try to place it and see how it looks with that partial wall and also how much walking space you have to move in and out of there. It would look really odd to place a sofa facing the fireplace since part of it would be against the wall and part be in open space.

lyfia- exactly what I was thinking too about the current plans versus the inspiration. That partial wall is a challenge.

lyfia-Yes, I see where it could cause problems. I did draw in furniture some time ago. (using dimensions of the actual furniture I plan to buy for that room)

I do plan to float the couch a few feet from the wall. Maybe that is why it never bothered me. I also drew in my planned furniture in the dining room and felt that it was a nice amount of circulation space between the two rooms.

The ceiling may be what defines the above open-to-each other spaces:

The room is decorated pleasantly enough, but spacially, architecturally, it's a real mess. Particularly that circle in a cross thing over the stairs that has nothing to do with anything anywhere that I can see. And in the other house, nothing that surrounds the vault is the same height...apologies to whoever these houses belong to, but these are chaotic spaces.

Palimpest-I do agree that the ceiling changes clearly define the spaces. My previous house had about a 10 foot opening into the living room, so there was a partial wall there. I guess it never bothered me. While the kitchen could be turned to face the living room, I did not want that view versus a view outside. Doing so would have also eliminated any painted wall in the living room.

My ceilings will be very similar to the photo that you highlighted the ceilings. I'm not sure what I will do over the stairs, but not what they have. The rest will be very similar. I can see how it would turn off someone who desired a true craftsman. I do find it interesting that both houses which cost over a million dollars would be referred to as an architectural mess...especially with so many people copying these designs. I do love them though. Even if I do change to Virgil's suggestion, I will still have a partial wall. Hopefully, the beams will draw the eyes up and off the wall a bit. I do want to keep the fireplace visible from the island, but do not want the kitchen more open than it is now...so I guess it is a matter of priorities.

The beams themselves are a nice detail in both houses. How much the the build costs really has little to do with architectural merit or purity or other positive or negative descriptors.