Form vs Function :)
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
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- 5 years ago
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Choosing a Kohler toilet: how to weigh form vs. function?
Comments (10)Thanks,Lukkiirish. I did look at the MaP report based on a link in an older thread. If I'm understanding it correctly, it tells me mostly what I know from the specs: in the Kohler line Class 6 and Class 5 toilets move more waste than the older Ingenium models or the dual flush models. What I can't judge from the specs is whether the differences in waste volume are noticeable or meaningful in real-world use. Not to get too scatalogical, but I certainly can't look in my toilet and judge what might be 600 grams or 1,000 grams of solid waste! (I also checked the MaP report for some Toto models which I liked stylistically, like the Pacifica, Vespin and Nexus, but for some reason none of them are listed. I don't know what that means.) I realize no one can tell me for certain what we'd be happy with, but I am interested in hearing people's satisfaction with these various toilets. If someone has a Cimarron Class 6 and also a Persuade or San Raphael, it would be interesting to know if you can't tell the difference in the flush, or conversely, if you feel the newer Class 5 or 6 models make all the difference in the world. Or, if anyone has experience with the any of the Class 5 models and also a Cimarron Class 6, is the newer Class 6 do a significantly better job washing down the bowl, or is it an indistinguishable difference? -- Eric P.S. Is there anything to read into the fact that Kohler introduced the Class 6 Cimarron a year (or more?) ago, but haven't yet moved any of their other Class 5 models to Class 6? If the changes in the Class 6 were driven by customer complaints about the bowl not being cleaned well enough in the Class 5 toilets, I would have thought they would have been moving quickly to transition more models to Class 6. Does this indicate the market is telling them that they still didn't get it "right" with the Class 6 Cimarron, and they're developing something else?...See MoreForm vs function. Which layout would you choose
Comments (29)Excellent on taping out the layout!! I hope you also taped up, or will do, a "hood" and uppers. One of our members did that years ago when she was trying to decide where to put it and it made a huge difference. There's an old bias from the middle of the 20th century, and before, not to put the oven near the fridge because the heat from the oven would make the fridge work hard, or previously, melt the ice in the icebox. Additionally, it's not nice to have the stove (cooktop) right by the fridge or any wall because it cramps your handles, elbows, etc. It has definitely become an embedded cultural trope. Today's ovens are well insulated. Between that and the cabinetry, there shouldn't be any side heat warming your fridge, which, itself, is very well insulated. Warm air will be blown into the room to cool the electronics of the ovens, but it shouldn't be an issue. There are no warnings from manufacturers to separate them, and there would be weasel words (lawsuit preventers) if this were a problem. The big issue with putting them next to each other is if the fridge door swings to cover the oven. I don't think we talked about swing. I would put the fridge opening toward the eating area, because it's more convenient for taking out armloads of the stuff that gets put on the table (condiments, pickles, drinks, salads, etc.), where as stuff for prep gets put on the island, which is the same either way. The biggest problem I foresee would be a gigantabird that you want to clean in the big sink, if that sink is going in the corner, because you wouldn't be able to just shovel it over. If you'd prefer to have the door swing away from the kitchen, then you have to be sure that there's enough swing room. My Advantium is right next to my fridge. The fridge opens really wide, but the oven handle is angled. I assume it's just for this reason. If your handles aren't angled, you can either put a stop to prevent the fridge door from opening too far, or put a spacer between the two so they don't bang. The issue is not putting dings in your fridge door. Having the door swing across the ovens also means that you have to be careful to fully close the oven before opening the fridge, which isn't usually a problem, but could be with competing kids. Train them while they're young to be aware of can't open the fridge when the oven's open, and when they're older it shouldn't be an issue. If any of this makes you uncomfortable, that would be a reason for moving the ovens, but you really will be upsetting the visual impact you're trying so hard to achieve. There's no one better than Buehl for a well working layout. If there were a functional issue with the one you and she developed, I promise you, it would have been fixed. What we've been working on here is taking what to my (experienced) eye, and Buehl's excellence, looks like an optimal layout and adapting it to your desire to make the kitchen fit a different aesthetic. Putting aesthetics first is not a bad choice. None of your options will be awful. The worst is that big sink in the corner, and, as you have already experienced in other kitchens, it can be lived with and worked around. There's nothing in G that makes me say, "That kitchen makes me want to rip it out," which I really have said many times in the last five years. I'm seriously blunt when people are going seriously wrong (though recently I did it because I didn't absorb a prep sink that was in the words but not the plan, and I thought she was specifically trying to make it work with a barrier island and no prep sink--my bad.) You're not in that situation here. Whatever you do will be good enough. I just think, equally bluntly, that if you're going to sacrifice optimal function for looks, you'd better optimize looks, or you're just getting middlin' everything. Nothing really great. Nothing really horrible. But who wants to go through all this for meh?...See MoreForm vs. Function-- which would you choose?
Comments (27)First off, I'm a function-over-form gal! So, keep this in mind as you read on... Since there is a possibility that you may stay longer than a couple of years, I would think about remodeling with what will please you...and, IMHO, I think a combination of function (#1) and form (#2) would please you best. Cabinets: Have you looked at IKEA cabinets? They are very affordable and many people here really like them and have found they're not too difficult to DIY the install. They're actually designed, I think, with DIY in mind. Even if you don't like the door styles, Scherr's has many different styles and now is able to drill for IKEA cabinets. Cost is a fraction of the cost of most stock & semi-custom cabinets. Style: I think if you use wood doors and a simple but classic door style (shaker or simple raised panel--similar to what you like in Harbor) you will find they will remain current enough for resale a few years down the road. Materials: Wood for doors. For Countertops, possibly granite (tiles, prefab, or a low-cost "pattern" like Uba Tuba) or a higher-end laminate would work in your area. Stay away from ceramic/porcelain tile. I think that's already dated and many people would look at it and think it would be hard to keep clean (I know I would) Appliances can be either stainless steel or white. I think both are acceptable in mid-to-high end kitchens. I'd probably stay away from black b/c they are more difficult to keep clean than SS, at least I think so (I have a black cooktop & it's the most difficult item in my kitchen to keep looking clean). For a sink I would stick with either stainless steel or Silgranit. I'd let cost & form drive that decision. (For SS, check out Galaxy Tool Supply's Ticor sinks w/the free sink grids (http://www.galaxytoolsupply.com/category_s/58.htm).) For faucet, I would go w/a pullout or pull down with or without a soap dispenser...I think a soap dispenser is a nice-to-have, but I don't think it will necessarily add to resale...but if you want one, go for it. As to finish, chrome is fine or go with a SS or brushed chrome or SS. I'm not sure if there's a price difference b/w brushed chrome and something like brushed nickel or oil rubbed bronze. Cabinet Hardware: Hardware doesn't have to be high-priced. Check out Home Depot or Lowes for lower priced but still very nice hardware. Look at finishes such as iron or pewter. Stay away from black if it's a painted finish...the paint will eventually chip on your most-used handles/pulls. Refrigerator: Your refrigerator will look best if it is cabinet depth and enclosed so it looks built-in. To achieve this look, install a 3/4" finished end panel on each side of the refrigerator, approx 27" deep--deep enough to cover the carcass (but not the door). Put a full-depth cabinet over the refrigerator to further make it look built in. If you cannot get a full-depth over-the-refrigerator cabinet, then get a regular......See MoreForm vs function/Practicality vs design in appliances
Comments (17)This is really goofy. I wrote a long post last night and now it isn't here........Wonder if I forgot to hit submit after preview. Or, did it disappear into cyber space? I really appreciate all of the advice, and I am still torn. Yesterday we went to talk to the Bluestar rep and to see it. It certainly is an impressive piece of equipment with those blazing hot burners, and yes there is even a visual difference between the flame size and level of the mega-sized 22K burners and the 15K. That said, I really need to spend some time reflecting on whether I truly need all of that fire power. The free color upgrade was offered to us and must be the incentive to get people in to talk to the rep. So, this would give me my color.....My husband was quite impressed with the build of the stove and the mechanics. But, I also keep thinking of all I've read of Bluestar problems with hot and sticking doors etc. For anyone else considering a Bluestar or other high-powered range, we learned some new things about installation and safety that we had never heard from any of the other sales people we've talked with. A high- powered range like this needs to have a fire proof/resistant back wall if it is installed with the standard island trim kit. We have white subway tile as a four foot high backsplash and had assumed we'd be fine as is, but apparently this is not sufficient unless it is fire proof tile (I have no idea how one would know this) AND the tile needs to go down 6" below the top of the range. Otherwise, you need to buy at least the 6" high backguard. This is what we'll be doing if we buy this. The dealer we visited yesterday had a cream colored Legacy on the floor. It was gorgeous and much more attractive than the white one we saw elsewhere. So, if you are looking for a light color Legacy, go for cream because it looked so much more rich and definitely not as cheap appearing as the white model. I still really like the Legacy a lot and can see pluses to it. First of all, it really is cute looking and would set an entirely different tone for our kitchen. We are empty nesters and those smaller ovens would be nice most of the time for what we cook for ourselves. But, I also know the burners are not as powerful as the more pro ranges (whether I need more power is a whole different story), and I really much prefer the open burners over the closed of the Legacy. While fine, I think the overall construction is a bit less sturdy than the Bluestar type models since the burners are aluminum rather than the brass of the Bluestar. And, one of the major concerns of ours is that the sides on this are not finished, so it can't stand with one side exposed. We would have to come up with having a carpenter build a teeny 4"-6" side piece to match our cabinetry. The appearance of a white stove as suggested by hollysprings definitely fits in, but I am really sick of the white top and how after a while, no matter how much you try to clean and scrub, there are just some stains and discolorations that are always there. So, even if I go with white, I want something that is not white on the cooktop. I have not even thought of reconfiguring and getting a new cabinet built to hold a cooktop and wall oven. My guess is that this would probably end up being even more expensive that a top end range. GWlolo mentioned being able to get prices less than retail. I'd like to know more about this since this is one thing that is frustrating to me about looking at all of these appliances. They are all quoting the exact same prices whereas nearly everything else we buy has dealer discretion on pricing. I am aware of online buying to avoid taxes, scratch and dent options (these just don't seem to be available for many different or high end lines though and floor models. What other ways are there to actually get a deal? The one thing I know is I refuse to put a stainless steel box in my kitchen! Thanks all. If you have any more thoughts, I appreciate them....See More- 5 years agolast modified: 5 years ago
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