Insurance as an investment....
phoggie
6 years ago
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Does anyone have long term care insurance?
Comments (8)I got it a couple years ago - I'm 54 now. It was offered through Prudential with an open enrollment through my employer. Employer does not pay for it but I took advantage of the open enrollment as I don't know that I'd qualify otherwise. It's a decent plan though not over the top - currently about $900 per year. Both DH and I did a lot to help our parents in their later years and since we have no kids there will be none of that if we live to be old. We'll be paying for help. DH's mother was in a nursing home for 11 years after suffering several mini strokes and his grandmother was in for 20 years after suffering a massive stroke. My grandmother was also in for many years. I hope I never end up there but if I do I'd like to somehow be able to pay for it myself and not end up being covered by taxpayers. My FIL paid for MIL - had LTC insurance for the first few years then self funded. I admired their ability to do that and would hope to be able to do the same....See MoreLong term care insurance
Comments (69)Smart Money magazine published an article several years ago that argued against buying LTC in your 50s or earlier because the standard 5% inflation protection coverage would not keep up with the average 7% increase in nursing home costs. Basically, the earlier you buy the policy, the larger the gap that you will have between what your policy pays out and what the actual costs will be. Here are a couple of quotes from the article: "The 5% inflation adjustment is the industry standard, adopted by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) in the early 1990s. If the insurance industry were to adopt the 7% inflation figure that some predict, 'the cost would be prohibitive', says Tom Foley, an actuary with the North Dakota Insurance Department who chairs the NAIC's long-term care rate stabilization woking group." "The average age at which people buy long-term-care insurance is now about 65, and given the effects of inflation on your coverage, not to mention the uncertainty of health care costs and public policy 20 or 30 years from now, why buy it earlier than that? 'If there's a liklihood you might develop a health problem that makes long-term-care insurance expensive, you might want to buy it sooner', says Chuck Mondin of the United Seniors Health Cooperative, a nonprofit advocacy group. Otherwise, wait."...See MoreIs this a good idea? (Cancer Insurance with Refund)
Comments (57)I would have to disagree with the post that included "Scam beware Cancer Insurance Family Heritage"... "This cancer insurance is a scam."..."...You are much better off not buying this insurance. Put this money in a bank or invest it. You get the interest and get all the money if you can't fund your bank account after 7 years or whenever. Change your diet, exercise and minimize your risk to cancer. Even if your a compulsive smoker. work in an asbestos factory and drink out of styrofoam cups... Don't get this policy, they payout is not worth the premiums. This insurance company is all about screwing you out of your money." My mother in law who has always been pretty healthy (or so we thought), began her policy with Family Heritage in Oct 2010. She was over age 55 so her premiums were kind of high (I thought). With the highest paying cancer coverage, her monthly premium was $108/month. On Dec 17, 2010, she was diagnosed with small cell lung cancer (stage IV) with metastisis. She passed away Oct 27, 2011. From December 2010 to May 2011, she had already received over $30,000 in payments from Family Heritage, and we are awaiting the final payment for the May through Oct (expecting atleast another $17,000). If you are at risk for cancer, it is a good idea! And I know that $47,000 is not much considering the bills for chemo, hospital stays, icu, doctors, etc; but, if you are lucky -as my mother in law was- you will have very good health insurance that covers all of those bills except for office co-pays after your deductible has been met each year. So all of that was hers. Also, if a person dies within the 25 years, the beneficiary receives the life insurance that goes with the policy. So if you pay on it 5 years, don't use it, then pass away, the beneficiary gets the life insurance. However, as in the case of my mother in law, since they paid her well more than the life insurance, her beneficiary did not receive the life insurance. Also, if she had been paid $3,000 from the company, the life insurance amount would have been reduced by the amount paid out. For example: 15,000 life ins -3,000 cancer ins paid to insured= 12,000 life ins payout to beneficiary. Not everyones going to have the same situation (otherwise they would go bankrupt), but I do know that this is what she benefited from her policy and her kids did as well. We got a policy for ourselves as well!...See Morepaying cash for a house part 2
Comments (31)i agree with you conceptually about only investing in thing you believe in, or rather in things you can stomach as most investments and industries have a downside if you look hard enough. eventually you get to exploited workers and poisoned rivers and solid waste. i personally struggled with the payday investment i made. the return was high, but i did not want to be associated with it. i said no for about 6 months. over that six months i learned how they (where my money is now) did business. after i understood it i had a hard time thinking of it any differently than a bank. they both loan money based on ones ability to earn money and pay it back. the only difference is the duration and the size of the loan. a bank allows me to spend money i don't have on a credit card and then charges me 13-18% until i pay them back while they themselves are leveraged 10 to 1 on those dollars loaned. the payday place will only loan me money that will be covered in my NEXT paycheck and charge me a flat fee of $5 or $10 while they themselves have a dollar for every dollar they loan out. when i look at it like that i really had no problem with the payday place, but started to have them with the banks. the payday places are not dragging the economy down because of their recklessness. they are also not enslaving an entire generation by offering them credit they cannot pay back. there are people who use them recklessly, and it is real easy to point them out because they are the fringe. it is a little harder to point out the middle class suburbanite who is a slave to their credit card and bank because they get up and go to work each day and keep a nice yard but are living on credit. both industries lend money and both are technically guilty of charging people who don't have money. they are in business to make money, not give it away. in the end neither is good nor bad just as fire is neither good nor bad. the good or bad all depends on who uses it and how they use it. the payday places service a far less afluent and unsophisticated clientele and therefore gives them very little wiggle room to abuse the system. if they want to stay one paycheck behind for the rest of their lives, that is about all they can do. the bank will let me get decades behind because they assume i am responsible and won't let it come to that but do little to stop me and recently have even encouraged me to do so. in my mind it is a match compared to the bonfire. both can be abused, but the potential abuse of a credit card is far greater. but there may be other payday places that have different policies than where i invested. mind you i don't have equity in the payday place�"they borrowed money from me to lend. in short my money is on deposit to be lent out just as if i put it in a savings account for the bank to lend out on a credit card loan. the main difference is my rate of return is almost 10 times higher but not FDIC insured. the only thing i do struggle with is the 10% they charge for cashing checks. this is outrageous in my opinion. i can't understand why anybody would do that unless they were unable to cash it elsewhere and i won't speculate as to why. but in the end they have their reason and are paying a premium for it. and with that i leave it. cigarettes are another issue and i am totally with you. i feel the same way about other products as well most are not as overtly damaging, but their products do carry liability and they push them with abandon to those who are hurt by them. not just talking guns and alcohol. a few minutes watching saturday morning cartoons was an eyeopener to the type of products marketed to kids. slap a mcdonald's logo on a bucket of mud and i think my kids would want to eat it. a friend of mine who is militant about his hate for phillip-morris and smoking in general (i think he lost a parent to lung cancer) holds half his portfolio in tobacco stocks. he justification was that it "those people" are going to annoy him with their smoke and take his taxes in healthcare, they are going to pay him for it. an interesting take on moral investing practices, but for him it makes sense. i respect your desire to not follow my practice of investing in payday lending. we not only have to undderstand our investments, but repect if not love them. i do not love payday lending, and to be honest would rather be elsewhere, but for the time being it is a good place and i am no so morally apposed to money lending as to not take the opportunity. i do however own no bank stocks for obvious reasons, i think their model is risky. i also think they are on the more unethical side of business. they have laws and loopholes that allow them to do things that are illegal to any other company. id it because we need their services and that is what it takes, or is it because they have power to influence if not make laws that favor them? i think recent events have shown us it is a little of both. before i sound too anti-establishment, let me say i think financial institutions are important and necessary�"ie. banks, insurance companies, the US government, the FED, and even payday lenders. BUT they are in busniness to make themselves rich, not us. if you do not understand what they are doing, how they make money, or worse, what you are doing, they will take advantage of you. thus education. it is through education that you can see the smoke and mirrors they use to make you feel good about making them rich at your expense. one of the most ubiquitous is the home mortgage. i am emphatic that the most expensive ways to buy a house are in this order; cash, paid off early mortgage, continually refinanced mortgage, a 15-year note, a 30-year note, ARM, variable rate, interest only, and deferred interest-AKA sub-prime being the cheapest. that said, i don't like differed interest as it assumes the risk in the real estate market and if used by the uneducated or irresponsible it can (and has) blown up in the borrowers face. what does the bank want you to do? they love you to take out a 30 year and refinance every few years or pay it off early. if you are going to take it to term, they prefer you take out a 15-year because it makes them more money and that is why they have a cheaper rate to take it�"they need to give you incentive to do what benefits them and think you are getting the better end of the deal�"if it makes them more money, how can it also save you money and show up in two places at once? this all sounds like hericy i know. but where do we get our financial education from? our bank? alan greenspan has a nice quote about the variable interest only mortgage being the best deal out there if people only knew how to use it and the 30 year not serving its customers as the think. i will see if i can find it. the mortgage subject was perhaps the most eye-opening and influential education i ever had in finance. it is the lesson that taught me to see the whole equation and not look at a financial strategy in a vacuum. it taught me to understand finance on a macro economic level to understand how to best use products on a micro economic level. it is painful and feels like you brain is removed and turned around and put back in. but i assure you it is all true and useful information, but it requires the user to be responsible for their financial life and some are not willing to do this and for them it is not wise to have control. just as fire in the hands a of one is destructive and to another the opposite. what i am talking about is basic business finance�"in short figuring out the lost opportunity cost and the taking the greatest margin. if done properly with understanding risk is minimized and growth is maximized. some will refuse to believe, but that does not prove those strategies wrong. i myself do not practice whole-heartedly all the strategies i know an believe because of issues regarding timing, my own laziness or whatever. this does not mean i don't acknowledge their strengths or potential. but it serves me to understand alternatives. there are many i have encountered on this forum and in other places who flat out throw up a wall and won't even try to understand that there are several strategies to use in every situation and they all have merits. my beef is with those who claim merits that are not truly there or ignore others. those who emotionally attach themselves to dogma that was sold to them without trying to understand. i have been guilty of this and still am at times and it only hurts myself. when i have a few hours to spend with a calculator, i will start a new thread and actually run the numbers on the most popular mortgage products side-by-side including paying cash. i will treat all as equals. it is amazing how different the outcome is from popular beliefs, but if you look at who is selling the mortgages and the information i guess it is not shocking. it won't prove anything other than which is the most expensive in terms of money and what risks are inherent in each scenario. the individual would have to choose which is best for them. the problem is that most choose the wrong thing for what they claim to want. if you know how they each work you can choose more appropriately for your goals whatever they may be....See Morephoggie
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agophoggie
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoElmer J Fudd
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
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