patser,
The woman coming tomorrow was the result of an online search. As I mentioned previously, I'm also getting some leads from our financial planner.

You can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be reading the exclusions very carefully. I'd never buy a plan that exclude dementia. The longer one lives, the more likely they are to develop some type of dementia.

I'm working on this in two stages - the first is to figure out exactly what kind of plan I need. The second is to select a company. Once I know exactly what I need, then I can compare plans between companies.
So far, I think I need a plan that covers in-home assistance in addition to skilled nursing facility. I need a plan with a built in inflation factor. I need a plan with a trigger at no more than assistance with 2 ADL's (and aparently bathing assistance is the one that is most often required).

Again, I will be purchasing this hoping that I'll never need to use it.

Another thing to look for in regards to exclusions:

I know someone whose mother had to go into a nursing home from assisted living. Because she went directly into the nursing home from assisted living her LTC policy did not cover her because the requirement was that the nursing home admission had to be directly from a hospital.

It's all the nit-picking various exclusions, that give the insurance companies ways to weasel out of paying, that make me hesitant to get involved in LTC insurance. The more I research the subject, the more confused I become.

nannygoat, that's an interesting observation.

When my late mil was hospitalized, the admissions person told us that for medicare to pay for nursing home care, she'd have to go straight from the hospital. If she went home, THEN went to nursing home, medicare would not cover. (In any case, medicare covers only a very limited time, certainly not long term). She ended up going to an adult family home where she lived for 2 years until her passing. It was a much better situation.

nanaygoat-
Sometimes, when issues are complicated, people do nothing. Making an informed decision not to purchase is one thing; however, not purchasing because you've never researched it enough is something quite different. There are reliable companies who have provided LTC insurance for many years, so don't approach this assuming they're all scam artists.

Sometimes, when issues are complicated, people do nothing

I've observed this with my late mil and my own mother. Neither had a plan in case they became incapaciated. Their plan was to die in their own home (presumably when they were ready). My mil's health deteriorated rapidly and everything spun out of her control. I had her sign a pow (to DH and bil) but never could get her to sign a health care pow. Consequently, DH and bil were able to deal with the financial aspects of paying her bills, selling her house etc, but when she was close to death and in a lot of pain, they were unable to sign her up for hospice care and she no longer had the capacity to sign anything. She was 84, very frail, with a slew of issues (diabetes, congestive heart failure, high blood pressure) and because she had no health care directive, the doctors did everything to keep her going as long as possible.

In my mother's case, she also made no plan, nor communicated anything to my sister and me. We finally were able to get her to a specialist who diagnosed Alzheimer's (after many, many scary incidents). Her small savings is gone (she gave about a quarter million to her church group) and my sister and bil support her. She's been living with them for nearly 5 years now and is on a waiting list for a facility where she will have to be admitted as a Medicaid patient.

As for me, DH and I have current wills, health care directives, and in the case of incapacity, pow's (DH as primary and my son as secondary). Everything is in a binder (son knows the location) with a list of accounts, safe deposit info, names and contact info. I feel that once I have this LTC ins thing figured out, I will have peace of mind.

nannygoat, in regards to your husband's pension funds, if you are privately paying for the LTC, no one takes his pension. You write the check and handle the money. Only if someone is on Medicaid would the money go directly to the LTC facility, rather than you. 30 years ago, Medicaid demanded that all assests were spent, leaving a well spouse on the street corner. Laws vary by state, but the well spouse is no longer left homeless and without income if one spouse needs care.

Gloria

patser, my policy is with Security Mutual Life of Nebraska. IIRC, I just got paperwork from them that they're changing their name to Assurity as a result of a merger.

Frankly, more people SHOULD get scared about LTC. Maybe then they would plan properly for it, instead of sticking their heads in the sand and hoping everything will come out okay for them.

I obtained an LTC quote in mid-2006 for a neighbor: single homeowner, no family around, 58 yrs old in excellent health. The quote was for $5600 and she balked; hemmed and hawed and said, "well, I'll think about it later."

In February 2007 she had to go in for a D&C where it was discovered she had uterine cancer. Well, big oops! That $5600 premium won't be EVER be available again to her. She'll need to wait another 5 yrs, and even then will get no better than Standard rates instead of the Preferred she could have qualified for. She'll be lucky if, in 5 yrs, she can get a quote for anything less than $10K/yr.

So I doubt she'll ever buy one, which means at some point in her old age she will have to sell her cute, but tiny (1 bd/1 ba) cottage, which is located in the worst location in the neighborhood (right by the elementary schoolyard, noisy and kids smoking/drug dealing in the walkways). In other words, another Medicaid inmate. And in Northern CA cities, some of those Medicaid nursing homes you wouldn't put your dog in, I can assure you!

Please note that I would disagree with the posting that mentions LTC companies. I would delete John Hancock and add Lincoln Benefit Life. The reason is that JH has in the past raised premiums on entire classes of LTC business already written (existing policyholders, in other words), so you cannot depend on their premiums remaining at the level you first bought in.

Lincoln Benefit Life is part of the Allstate Group, and is one of the major LTC carriers in the industry, although only the insurance agents seem to know who they are. They are in fact either #2 or #3 in the LTC market, after Met Life, I believe. They sell the new combination LTC-Annuity policies, which return money to you/your estate if the LTC portion goes unused. These are not as inexpensive as the traditional LTC policies, but if you have concerns about paying premiums for years and ending up not using the LTC policy, these new policies might be worth looking into. Genworth also sells such a policy, along with traditional LTC policies (they were formerly GE Assurance Company).

Good luck!

jkom, with all due respect, it sounds like you are an insurance salesperson, so perhaps you are biased on this issue. My apologies if I'm wrong.

Just had a conversation with my sister. She's outside Denver. The cost of nursing home for Mom will be $7000/mo. Since Mom is in excellent physical health (her issue is Alzheimers) and is 82, it is entirely conceivable that she could be there 5-10 years!

Mom always said she put her trust in "the Lord". Well, I guess the Lord will be working through the taxpayers.

jkom51,
Can you tell me how I can determine which companies have raised premiums?
Thanks!

Grandma, If your mom's expenses end up eating up all her assets, please note that she'll be able to go onto Medicaid when her total assets have dropped to $2000 (and that's something that has to be certified annually). Keep that in mind when your family thinks about funeral planning. $2000 doesn't go far at all.

I'm sorry your mom is in that situation.

harriethomeowner, I am a career Executive Assistant, and have worked in the insurance, banking, consulting, and financial planning industries for over 35 years. Although I may sound knowledgable to a layperson, any good insurance agent or financial planner could run rings around me, I assure you!

I have always done a lot of Net research as part of my job, ever since use of the Net became popular. So I have been involved in many of the issues in the financial and insurance world both as a consumer and as an administrator who has the joyous (NOT!) job of filling out all that paperwork, LOL.

You need to find a good insurance agent. That means someone who has been in the business for over 10 years, has a good breadth of knowledge on the subjects of health and LTC insurance (the different types of insurance each require annual certifications of a certain # of hours spent in classroom or workshop study), and gets a lot of his business through referrals from satisfied customers. So you should interview several and not only ask a lot of questions, but listen to how well THEY listen to YOU. After a while, you'll get a feel for how well they really know their subject, and what their ethics are like.

In other words, it's a lot like finding a contractor, which means it isn't much fun at all! But, at least insurance agents keep on time for their appointments, and apologize if they keep you waiting!

patser,
Thanks - I only mentioned Mom's situation to point out what can happen when one refuses to plan. My sister has already put an application for Medicaid - she's discovered that nursing homes who accept Medicaid patients won't accept "Medicaid Pending" - they will accept patients who are already ON Medicaid, with a case #. The wait period to get onto Medicaed is 45 -60 days. The process is fairly involved.

As far as funeral planning, my sister and I have agreed to split that expense.

Found a site with some statistics on LTC insurance:

Long-term Care Insurance
The average annual long-term care premium for individuals under 65 is $1,337.

The average premium for individuals over 65 is $2,862.

The average long-term care insurance policy purchased by a 65-year-old and held until death pays out 82 cents for every dollar.

Since 1987, fewer than 10 million Americans have bought long-term care insurance, and only about 7 million of those policies remain in force today.

Almost 30 percent of Americans over 45 have purchased a long-term care insurance policy.

There is some other interesting information on this site. They have what they call "5 Big Ideas" (go to the link below and find the link to "AAHSA's Five Big Ideas") including this, which I think is right on target (although who knows if it will ever come to pass):

Myriad studies, trends, and prognostications support the conclusion that the current system of financing long term care through Medicaid, with a smattering of long term care insurance, is inadequate and unsustainable for the country. A new, rational approach is needed that infuses sufficient funds into a national plan. A new national plan should be fair and equitable for all who will have long term care needs, ensure choice to allow people to responsibly remain at home, support the natural care-giving network, be fiscally sound, and be overseen by a governance structure immune from conflicts of interest.

In short: a public insurance model is called for. In such a plan everyone pays a modest premium. There are uniform standards of eligibility and care management. The dollars follow the eligible consumer. And, the money is managed in a sound actuarial and independent structure. This plan could resolve the pending Medicaid financial crisis, and there are precedents for it in other countries challenged by the same demography.

Here is a link that might be useful: AAHSA site

When I worked at my last job, at a small private investment management firm, I must have obtained 25-30 LTC quotes for clients and prospects in less than 2 years. At no time, for people ranging from ages 44 through 79, did I ever see a quote come in from the three major LTC companies we used -- Lincoln Benefit, Met Life and Genworth -- that was ever less than $4200/yr for an individual, UNLESS they were requesting a nursing home only policy with no home health services.

There was indeed one client who requested such a policy, and the quote came back for around $1900 for age 66, Standard risk (which falls right in line with harriethomeowner's stats, above), although we did include compound inflation protection - something our financial planners insisted upon; they will not recommend any quote without it.

However, this man is single, no heirs, with a guaranteed pension, retirement medical benefits that pay for home health services, and a liquidity of around $1.6M, not including his paid up home. Realistically very few people are fortunate to be in his position.

I figure that IF, and it's a very very big "if", the government ever gets its act together and indeed adds LTC coverage to the Medicare program, I will see if the government benefits are better than our private policies. If so, I can let them go without bitterness; they will have served their purpose and given us a peace of mind that an extended disability to one or both of us could be managed without devastating our lifetime of accumulated assets.

But I'm not holding my breath till it happens, LOL!

Since we're posting stats, here's another one to think about...almost 48% of all people receiving Social Security Disability benefits are under the age of 60.

jkom51,you are reeling off plenty of stats, but no links to that information.

I'm not buying them, and 1.6 M isn't all that much these days.

Gloria

"almost 48% of all people receiving Social Security Disability benefits are under the age of 60"

Doesn't surprise me at all. I'm surprised the number isn't higher actually. Social Security Disability recipients include:

-Spouses and minor children of deceased workers (until age 18)
-Physically and cognitively disabled minors (also under 18)
-Physically and cognitively disabled adults (formerly in the above group but now over 18 and still disabled)
-Adults who become physically or cognitively disabled through illness or trauma and unable to work.

Those last two groups continue to receive disability payments even after the age of 60, or 62 or 70.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Your typical elderly person does not begin to receive Social Security disability if they become infirm. They continue to receive their same Social Security retirement payments based on their earlier earnings. And their health coverage remains Medicare unless they deplete all their assets and become eligible for Medicaid. There is no entitlement program for getting infirm when you are old.

HTH.

quiltgo, if you look at my postings there are very few "stats" in them. Most of what I wrote is the experiences I've had on the job gathering info and filling out forms for clients in financial planning, insurance and investment management, and consulting industries.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish. And I am happy for you that you consider $1.6M in liquid assets ordinary. The San Francisco Bay Area, where I live, is one of the most prosperous, diversified economies in the US, but the majority of residents don't come anywhere close to having $1.6M in cash on hand.

Liquid assets are just that -- investable dollars. Not a house, not a rental, not a pension, not life insurance. Just cash, and a portfolio of assets.

My DH and I have an estate of $1.8M, but our liquid assets are only $415K, and we're in our 50's with good jobs. As I said, LTC insurance to us is just a way of reducing the risk that one or both or us getting disabled/sick would bankrupt the estate and leave the other stripped of resources, forced to use Medicaid for the limited elderly care it offers.

jkom51, still no links. I realize you haven't been posting on this board long. Most of us very clearly understand liquid assets. Really, we do.

I would image there are several on this board alone doing better on liquid assets than you. DH is a CPF and while you may not want to hear it, 1.6M is not usual for someone at the peak of their earnings which is pretty much your age.

Since I already posted that we have liquid assets to cover pretty extensive nursing home costs, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to explore other avenues besides making insurance companies even richer. If you end up being one of the 95% which doesn't need nursing home care, you come out way ahead. If you are part of the 5%, then you are covered.

Gloria

Gloria
If you end up being one of the 95% which doesn't need nursing home care, you come out way ahead. If you are part of the 5%, then you are covered.

I'm curious as to where your 95% figure came from.
The figures I'm seeing are quite a bit different:
according to research published in the journal Inquiry by Kemper, Komisar, and Alecxih, most people who turn 65 in 2005 will, in their lifetime, need some level of long term care.

According to the table in the article, 28% of women and 11% of men (people who will turn 65 in 2006) will need 5 or more years of some form of LTC. The same table shows that 22% of women and 17% of men (again of people turning 65 in 2006) will need, at some point in their lives, 2-5 years of some form of LTC.
At $7000/mo, a 5 year stay could be $420,000 in today's dollars. Not an insignificant sum for many.

Here is a link that might be useful: Long Term Care

zone8_grandma, that table is grouping all types of LTC together, including assisted living, nursing home, at home, and so on. They say "some level of care."

I found this calculator (not that it's not something you can't do with a paper and pencil, but it's interesting to see it as a graph).

Here is a link that might be useful: LTC calculator

Harriet -
Yes, it does group all types of LTC together - it seems to me that the point is that more folks than realize it will require some level of care at some point in their lives. That care has to be paid for in some way. Either by the taxpayers, the person themselves, or an ins co.

I don't believe there is a "one size fits all" solution; for myself, I'm coming to the conclusion that LTC ins will buy me peace of mind. I've given myself a deadline (my next birthday) to make a decision and take action.

Just adding some new discoveries to the mix here. My sister has been researching nursing homes for Mom whose Alzheimer's is causing more problems. Sister says that that Alzheimer's patients tend to do best in home situations where there are 4-5 Alz patients, but these types of homes do not accept Medicaid patients, so Mom isn't a candidate. Additionally, a number of nursing homes have private rooms, but again, those aren't available for Medicaid patients. So she will not be in the best possible situation for her condition. Again, it's unfortunate, but it's the result of her refusal to make a plan for herself.

Gloria, lots of people are doing better on liquid assets than my husband and I. I know, I have worked for many of them! There's never any problem getting a job when you're a top-flight Executive Assistant, LOL.

I did not mean to insult you in explaining liquid assets. When rereading my other posts, I thought perhaps I wasn't clear on what I meant, so I added an explanation. You seem to have taken offense at that, and I certainly didn't mean any.

One reason we personally don't show as much liquid assets as one would expect is that my husband is a government employee, with an 80% guaranteed pension and full retirement medical benefits. It's worth an enormous amount of money, but not something we add in the total.

I'm not sure what "links" you expected to see. As I said, much of what I posted is my own experiences 'on the job.' I do think that one can get LTC quotes that are less than what I used to pull for our clients, but people should know that no insurance broker works for all companies, they pick a few that they prefer to do business with, and stick with them.

My last boss, who is a CFP (is that what you meant to type for your husband's occupation? I don't know what a CPF is) with his own business and 7 employees, was very conservative and selective about the carriers he would recommend to his clients. So we never pulled quotes from a dozen different companies for the lowest price -- he would only have me get quotes from certain companies whose reputation and service, he felt, were worthwhile.

Certainly, many people have done better than we have. And many people have done worse, also. LTC is like any other insurance -- a balance of risk versus return. You are to be congratulated on not needing to invest in it! That is a great position to be in.

But as zone8_grandma's example shows, our patchwork of elder care services just does not work for everyone. And I believe that problem will worsen. I hope we can all find solutions that work for our individual circumstances, one way or another.

"Since I already posted that we have liquid assets to cover pretty extensive nursing home costs, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to explore other avenues besides making insurance companies even richer."

I don't think anyone here is arguing about that. If you have the financial means to handle any needed care, you probably don't need insurance. Most people don't, though. And too many people don't even bother to think about whether or not they do.

"Since I already posted that we have liquid assets to cover pretty extensive nursing home costs, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to explore other avenues besides making insurance companies even richer."

It's nice that you have liquid assets to cover extensive nursing home costs, but you seem to be implying that your solution should work for others. And others may or may not have the liquid assets available. For those folks, the "other avenues" are to have their children take care of them, take out LTC ins, or go on Medicaid (which may or may not even be available by then)

My very smart mother took out LTC when she was still working and it was a good deal. I think it was John Hancock. She paid into it for ten years or so. She became ill and had to move to an assisted living facility as she could no longer manage the stairs in her house.
Because she had such a good policy, she was able to take a suite with two rooms. That allowed me to stay with her as much as she needed or as much as I could. As her condition worsened, she required more care and the LTC covered that as well. At some point we hired extra nurses to stay overnight or when she would be alone, which we paid out of her finances.
Her charges were between $3,000-$6,000+/month for six months depending on the level of care. For all I know she may have paid that much in premiums (the insurance companies ARE in business to make a profit), but when it came down to it, we did not have to worry about where the money was coming from. Once she was qualified, John Hancock took care of everything which left us without that additional stress.
That policy was right on time when we needed it. We may have been able to pay that out of her accounts, but in the end her estate was preserved, which was her wish and intent.
DH and I (mid 40's) now have LTC offered through my employment, at about $600 for both of us annually. My father also signed up a few years ago and at 75, his premium is $1600/annually. It will never be as cheap as it is now...
And having those resources when they are most needed gives us tremendous peace of mind and hopefully allow us to keep our house.

nycefarm,
Thanks for sharing that. I told my son I was planning to take out an LTC policy and he said he appreciated the fact that I was thinking ahead. (I already have a will, health care directive and power of attorney in place)

Going back to patser's OP, I haven't decided yet on a company. For sure it WILL be one of the big ones (GE, JH, MetLife, or another). My first task is to figure out a daily benefit amount and also a benefit period (2,3,4,5 years). I've already decided I want the inflation protected coverage and I want either a separate policy for DH or a policy that is flexible enough that either of us could use it.

The agent I talked to the other day, in discussing the issue of premiums going up said that GE had not raised their premium in 30 years. She made it clear that they could raise the premium, but so far have chosen to raise it only on new policies.
For me, the policy I want will probably cost around $1100 - $1600 annually. I hope I never need it. I figure that I'm buying peace of mind both for myself, my husband, and my son.

I've not looked at this post in a few days so thanks for all the ideas and discussion that's occurred. I am going to get on the ball researching more fully in the next few weeks.

My 81 yr old aunt, who was my mom's doctor (before mom passed on), has had cancer for the last 2 years and in the last 12 days went from living on her own, to the hospital and now is in hospice care. She'll end up being one who didn't have LTC insurance and won't need it. It's been a tough couple of weeks for our family - I'm just flat out tired. Yet even though my aunt's circumstances are what they are, I'm still leaning toward finding the policy that's right for DH and I.

Thanks, everyone. Please keep your ideas and experiences coming.

I didn't read every entry here so I don't know whether or not anyone suggested AARP Long Term Care Insurance through Met Life. My husband and I bought this 3 years ago and it is a very affordable choice. Not a Mercedes of coverage; more like a Toyota Camry. I'm three years older than my husband, and our coverage is for $3,000/month with a maximum benefit of $100,000 each. This includes home care and/or facility care. Our policies total just over $105/month. The elimination period for each policy is 45 days.

Although I am opposed to LTD in general, my reasons for purchasing are the reverse of many who think they need it for old age. I bought these policies (we were both in our mid-50's when purchased) because of their affordability and broad coverage. I wanted the protection now while we are reasonably young in the event one of us had an incapacitating event like a stroke or an auto accident and needed rehabilitative care. I'm not planning to keep them forever.

After my husband retires, we may keep the policies for awhile, but if we need the extra $100 a month, we will cancel them. We've watched many, many older relatives, friends, and coworkers die in their own homes without ever needed nursing assistance. Others have entered a nursing facility for the last 3 - 6 weeks of their life when it became impossible for family members to attend to their basic needs. They did not live beyond a 45 day elimination period (if they had had insurance, which they did not). But, I have encountered several people who needed considerable rehabilitative care for periods of 6 months - 2 years while in their 50's - 60's. They recovered and are back to leading full lives. But they seriously depleted savings during rehab. This is what I would like to avoid.

My feeling is that insurance companies would not be hyping this insurance so dramatically if it weren't terribly profitable for them. But, if you think you might want a small amount of protection at an affordable price, take a look at this AARP option.

Sorry, in the above message I meant to say LTC instead of LTD

What if one plans to enter a continuing care community? There would be no point in having LTC insurance in that case would there since the hefty entrance fee guarantees care for life.

Does anyone have an opinion on Allianz? They have a LTCi plan that you can choose to pay entirely in ten years, and another otion to get it paid for by age 65. IOW, pay it while you are employed and can afford it.

I'm looking at all the big guns too, JH, GE, Metlife....but was wondering about Allianz.

I have always been pretty well prepared for anything life throws at me. I did not buy LTC insurance because at the time I researched it, only 10 to 15% of people end up in a home. I gambled ......and lost. But the government is pretty good to the surviving spouse and I am ok. We did a division of assets and surprise, surprise, my expenses came out of his half of our money. I am not buying LTC insurance for myself.

Well, I'll revive this thread.
I decided to go with Allianz. Boy, I think it was jkom who said the underwriting is really strict so they can put you in the class preferred or standard, which impacts the rates. They called me for three interviews, got my doctors records, reminded me of a visit I had to a specialist over 2 years ago! that I had forgotten about...they must have gotten wind of that through the specialist sending a report back to my primary. Anyhow, they really delved into my health history. I am pleased to report that I am in their preferred plus class, for the best rates.

I am doing a plan that will be totally paid up in 10 years, so I will be done paying for it about the time I retire. Personally, I just couldn't fathom paying for 30 or 40 years (I'm 52).

I feel better psychologically...with no children to care for me (or not) I guess it is some form of self-protection!

I just realized that I hadn't posted since getting a policy. I went with John Hancock and my experience was similar to that of Acey. First a written application, a follow up phone call from an RN going over the info and asking for more info. Then I had to have a physical by a dr they designated (DH wasn't required to have a physical - presumably because he is only 59).

I got the preferred rate, DH got the standard rate (he has hyptertension).

We went with a policy that has a 120 day elimination period, a 150/day benefit (here that's about 75% of the cost) max 4 years, is good for snf or assisted living or home care, and 5% (compounded) inflation protection. There were some compromises to get the rate down a bit.

It's personally a relief for me to have it in place.

Would those with LTC insurance mind posting what their premiums will total? (Acey said it would be paid up in ten years...what's that grand total?)

Is the 5% per year increase pretty standard? Do their benfits go up 5%, or do your payments increase 5%? Health care costs have been increasing at a much higher rate than that for a long time.

Would those with LTC insurance mind posting what their premiums will total?
My premium is $1722/yr; DH's premium is $1523 (he's 59, I'm 63). My rate was "preferred", his "standard".

Is the 5% per year increase pretty standard? Do their benfits go up 5%, or do your payments increase 5%?
The 5% compounded means that the benefits go up 5%/yr. It's not necessarily "standard". One has to make certain that the policy includes it. Usually the term is something like "inflation protection".
The premium is not increased. The only way for the premiums to be increased is for the company to increase the premiums accross the board for everyone in that insurance class (of course doing that risks losing a lot of customers so companies generally don't do it a lot). Another reason to go with a large, established company, imo.

Our LTC policies were obtained under the CalPERS LTC program, which negotiates extremely favorable rates for state government employees covered by PERS. They are less than market rates. Also, we obtained our policies when we were in our late 40's, so the premiums were extremely low.

My DH: $984/yr
mine: $1140/yr

Coverage: currently $192/daily with 5% annual compounded inflation protection, 50% for assisted daily living facility, max $2881/mo for home care. Lifetime payout, 90-day elimination period. (Home care allowance is included in the 5% compounded inflation coverage and so rises over time)

You should note that some LTC policies offer 5% simple inflation coverage, NOT compounded. It's preferable to obtain compounded inflation coverage, but you will pay more for it.

Monthly Premium: $90.13
Current Daily Benefit Amount (DBA):$191.00
Waiting Period: 90 days
Inflation Option :Automatic Compound Inflation Option (this means my daily benefit amount increases, my premium not not increase with inflation)
Benefit Period :Unlimited

Facility Care
Nursing Home, Assisted Living Facility or Hospice Facility :
Up to 100% of your DBA ($191.00) per day

Home Care
 Services Provided by a Formal Caregiver at Home :
Up to 75% of your DBA ($143.25) per day

 Services Provided by an Informal Caregiver :
Up to 75% of your DBA ($143.25) per day; benefits for services provided by Family Members limited to 365 days in your lifetime

 Hospice Care at Home :
Up to 100% of your DBA ($191.00) per day

 Adult Day Care Center :
Up to 75% of your DBA ($143.25) per day

Additional
Bed Reservations :
Up to 100% of your DBA ($191.00) per day; benefits limited to 30 days per calendar year

Caregiver Training :
Up to 100% of your DBA($191.00) per day; benefits limited to 7x your DBA ($1,337.00) in your lifetime

Respite Services :
Up to 100% of your DBA ($191.00) per day; benefits limited to 30x your DBA ($5,730.00) per calendar year

I'm young, so I expect this is comparatively dirt cheap.

Smart Money magazine published an article several years ago that argued against buying LTC in your 50s or earlier because the standard 5% inflation protection coverage would not keep up with the average 7% increase in nursing home costs. Basically, the earlier you buy the policy, the larger the gap that you will have between what your policy pays out and what the actual costs will be. Here are a couple of quotes from the article:

"The 5% inflation adjustment is the industry standard, adopted by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) in the early 1990s. If the insurance industry were to adopt the 7% inflation figure that some predict, 'the cost would be prohibitive', says Tom Foley, an actuary with the North Dakota Insurance Department who chairs the NAIC's long-term care rate stabilization woking group."

"The average age at which people buy long-term-care insurance is now about 65, and given the effects of inflation on your coverage, not to mention the uncertainty of health care costs and public policy 20 or 30 years from now, why buy it earlier than that? 'If there's a liklihood you might develop a health problem that makes long-term-care insurance expensive, you might want to buy it sooner', says Chuck Mondin of the United Seniors Health Cooperative, a nonprofit advocacy group. Otherwise, wait."

>> 'If there's a liklihood you might develop a health problem that makes long-term-care insurance expensive, you might want to buy it sooner'Unfortunately, that statement is the kicker. Who can tell when you are going to develop a health problem? My DH, who suffered a haemorrhagic stroke at the age of 50? A friend who was in perfect health until she found out she had cancer at age 59? Both of these people are now ineligible for anything but a very expensive policy, available only after a five year waiting period - with premiums so high that neither can afford it.

My DH is lucky, we had already purchased the LTC policy three years prior. My friend is not; the LTC quote I got for her not six months prior to her cancer diagnosis is now useless.

Please do not buy insurance thinking it is the sole answer to your problems. It helps MITIGATE risk, but it cannot eliminate it.

I do not expect our LTC insurance to pay everything. But it goes a good ways towards stretching our health dollars - and for what it costs, even having bought it in our late 40's, it provides a peace of mind that should one of us need to make a claim, the other spouse won't have so much of a drain on retirement assets.

This begins to sound like the quip that banks will only loan money to people who don't need it. If you're healthy and young you get a low rate on LTC insurance -- but you pay tons over the years before you are likely to need it.

I'm curious about the total 'acey' will spend for a policy to be paid up in ten years.

I know, I know...they are selling INSURANCE, AKA the peace of mind mentioned by many posting here. It just seems one could invest quite conservatively and self-insure in many cases. I especially agree with the Smart Money clip that it's very expensive (total paid in) to buy LTC before age 65, even though premiums may be lower earlier.

Here's to everyone's health! May you never need LTC beyond the average couple of months at the end of the road -- better yet, never need it at all!

chisue, i did the math for myself. Assuming 8% after-tax gains, and assuming that 5% inflation, if I invested the premiums instead of buying insurance, i'd have enough for a little more than 4 months care by the time I'm 65, and a little more than 7 months by the time I'm 80. If you want an idea of the comparison between self-insure vs. buying the insurance. Many would look at those numbers and the chances of being in a nursing home longer than, say, 10 months (those 7 months of $ I'd have at 80 plus my 90-day waiting period which i better have the $ for anyway) and see a pretty clear choice to self-insure. For myself I didn't agree for a variety of reasons, but you are absolutely correct that self-insuring is a viable choice and probably the correct choice for a lot of people.

chisue,
If I invested the 1722/yr at say 6%, in ten years I would not have enough to cover one year's stay. If (God forbid) I needed it next year, I would not have enough for one week.

For those fortunate enough to afford self insure, I say more power to them. But it's clearly not an option for me.
I hope I never have to use it. But I'm glad I have it.

Thanks to all of you for sharing. I bet we've covered this more thoroughly than any of the small-type policies! And we can understand what's being said.

Chisue,
The short answer to your question:

"I'm curious about the total 'acey' will spend for a policy to be paid up in ten years"

is $30,000.

I will post specifics when I have the policy in front of me, for I have the month window to tweak it or deny it before I accept it.

If I forget to post, remind me!!!!

It also makes a difference where you live. A facility or home care in NYC or San Francisco is clearly going to cost a great deal more than in St. Louis or Rapid City.

There was a short article in Smart Money magazine this month on a younger woman who bought LTC insurance only because she had watched her mother encounter serious financial problems as she aged - not enough money for home health care services, and forced into a Medicaid nursing home. The daughter had bought it for her old age, only to make a claim on it two years later when she suffered a serious back injury, went through surgery, and needed 7 months of care.

In our case, one year's worth of per individual premium doesn't even equal one week of what a good facility would cost, or about ten days of home health care.

Oh, another thing to investigate when purchasing LTC insurance: remember to check what their definition of 'disabled' is. Most require you not be able to perform at least 3 of the 6 ADL's (Medicare's standard). Our policy, negotiated through PERS, has a 2-ADL definition of disability. I believe most federal employees, who are often offered breaks on LTC insurance, also have the 2-ADL definition.

I just got the hard copy of the policy today...so the 30 day review begins....I will make sure it says what the agent and I agreed to, and will post more specifics in due course.