Of course it's a question of good manners, but OP referred to SIL, so it's family where one is supposed to feel at home and at ease.

I'd never dream of asking for additional condiments in a non-family context, but when I host people who are non-family and who are not good friends either, I don't get any joy from making them eat my food as is if they'd rather change it - despite their bad manners.

My father covers his food with salt before even tasting it. My mom never cooks with salt. I don't know which one caused the other. But it is quite irritating when someone does that before even tasting it. Condiment usage doesn't bother me. I do find it odd though, when someone eats the same thing on EVERYTHING, like the OPs SIL. My boss puts mayo(and A LOT of it) on everything. And i do mean everything, eggs,biscuits, spaghetti, mashed potatoes,stew, even oreos and chocolate chip cookies. I like mayo, but really...gag. That being said, to each his own. I got him a gallon of mayo one Christmas when he was still just a coworker. He said it lasted about 2 weeks. If SO or another family member who regular dined with me liked a particular condiment, i would make an effort to always have it on hand, even if it annoyed me.

A non-condiment example: SO likes to eat crackers with a lot of stuff. He prefers crackers with spaghetti to garlic bread, fills up any soup or stew with them before eating it, and even wants them with pot roast and bbq. I do find it weird to eat a cracker over delicious, buttery, cheesy garlicky bread, and i dont understand what they add to pot roast but i guess i dont have to. Whatever he likes to eat, he should.

Wintercat, i get really agitated when i'm nagged about eating something i don't want. I am SO SICK of hearing, "Oh, you'll like the way I make it." "You just haven't had i cooked the right way." or, if i'm watching my carb or calorie intake, " One bite/piece wont kill you." (SOs favorite line, even after gently hinting that perhaps i lose a little)

ETA: I am among the ranks of unapologetic ranch dippers. But it's not essential for me to enjoy something other than hot wings. I DETEST the bottled kind though. It's way too sweet and tastes like chemicals. I will also admit that I like.....ahem...melted cheez whiz,yes it has to be the whiz, on my hot dogs,along with mustard,and I also like it on tater tots,but not fries. Like it,but don't have to have it to enjoy the food.

How about the inventive cook adding to something you have partially prepared? My mom is the primary cook in her household. Often when she is almost finished cooking her partner comes in and adds his touch to the meal. She is actually more tolerant than I would be. He is rather inventive and of the Dagwood school - more is better. ‘why not peanut butter and mustard in your fish soup? And horseradish and mayo?’

I don't think anyone should be forced to eat food that does not taste good to them, and I do not consider it bad manners if they refuse to eat it.

I do not even have catsup in my house, but then no one has ever asked for it. I do keep soy sauce and fish sauce on hand, however, as well as quite a few other condiments, and they are meant to be used.

When I make Ranch dressing, I start with garlic cloves and Kosher salt in a mortar & pestle. Then I add black pepper, fresh dill, and lemon juice, and that is the base of my dressing. I add parsley if I have it, but no dried ingredients. I finish it with mayo and sour cream but no buttermilk, as the lemon juice makes it thin enough.

I agree w/ those above; while it may seem disrespectful to alter the food put in front of you, it actually is really poor etiquette to make a guest at one's table feel uncomfortable or embarassed.

It's that little thing about 2 wrongs never making a right.

I haven't bought ketchup in years. I don't think I've ever bought sweet relish or ranch dressing - nor made either, although Lars' home made sounds good.

Tried ranch on wings once, when dining out. Nope, it's bleu cheese dressing for me.

I don't "make" anyone eat my food, family or not. I would absolutely expect my son in law to respect my food if he chose to eat at my table as i would respect his food. I think it must be another of those cultural differences. In Europe, it isn't acceptable to plaster your food with something like hot sauce or mayo. You would be considered to be behaving like a naughty child lol ;)

Here is an extreme comparison:

You are an artist and created a beautiful painting. You gave the painting to a friend.

Your friend decided to make some changes to the painting.

As I said, "an extreme comparison". Even that would not anger me. My friend has every right to do whatever he/she likes with personal property.

dcarch

dcarch, a painting isn't consumed the way food is. It's a whole different category, a totally different situation. Nor is a work of art the kind of property the owner is supposed to alter. In a way it's lent to the owner for treasuring and passing along to the next generations. Food on the other hand is only for temporary keeping.

I sure have eaten at peoples' tables where the food was so awful that covering it with something would be the only way to eat it. I have been served lean pork loin chops cooked for 4 hours ontop of a bed of saurkraut...so stringy I couldn't chew the meat, but the man of the house was raving about how delicious. I have been served turkey breast simmered for 4 hours in gravy that also was so dried out and stringy I couldn't swallow it. I have been served spaghetti and meatballs by someone who didn't know the difference between a clove and a head of garlic ( my last resort there was more bread!) I have been served potato salad that was pretty much cold potatoes and Miracle Whip....and I have been served lasagna that was pretty much cottage cheese between noodles topped with canned tomatoes.
sometimes a bit of ketchup, mustard, salt and pepper and hot sauce are really necessary!

dcarch, yes, that is an EXTREME example. If we all made 3 paintings a day, looked a them, and then flushed them down the toilet , would it really matter if someone made a change to it? This is food that we jam down our throats, it goes into our stomach where our bodies strips the nutrients from it, and then we flush what's left down the toilet. If someone wants to add seasoning or condiments to make it taste better to them, guess what, they flush it down the same way as you do.

Most of us seem to lose perspective. Why does your opinion of how you like your food matter more than your guest who has a different opinion? Are you serving your food in a competition where it might actually matter? Are you competing in kitchen stadium or something?

FWIW, aside from it being opinion, I feel like being overly aggravated about such things seems a little bit controlling, or even insecure. I may feel disappointed, but I don't think I would become angry or annoyed. Of course, I'm not saying the OP claimed to be super angry about it, just annoyed. Might that be because it's family and family can get under our skin like nobody else? Are there other things about this SIL that are annoying as well? In-law relationships are famously fraught, aren't they?

Funny, I was just reminded of my BIL's "famous" meatloaf, which my mother and sister rave about, and hubby & I find pretty horrible, mainly because of its pasty, mushy texture. I recall taking a smallish portion the first (& only) time and politely eating it and complimenting its flavor, but never again, if I can possibly help it! I love my BIL very much and he is terrific guy. I would hate to hurt his feelings, but the 1 person I really don't want to confess my aversion is my mom; she's the one who would be insulted if I told her neither hubby nor I can stand the stuff.

I am also wary of the cooking of a very dear 90+ year old family friend whose kitchen hygiene is questionable, to say the least. I'm always a bit afraid to eat her food - esp. if it contains milk, eggs or mayo - and usually think of polite excuses to avoid doing so as much as possible.

Would putting red pepper flakes on homemade pizza be considered insulting?

And I love to douse fried chicken w/ hot sauce, however, I don't know anybody who makes that from scratch.

My grandmother had a saying: "There's no accounting for taste", said the man, as he kissed a cow.

I have been scanning this thread hesitant to comment but I am with someone above who suggests moving this to the bottom of your list. The old folks where I grew up would say "water off a ducks back".

Not every meal or occasion is the same. Dinner parties,more formal dining is always served plated. Usually multiple courses. And I can't ever remember ever being asked by a guest for ketchup or Bbq sauce or ranch dressing etc nor as a guest have I ever requested a condiment not already being offered.

Family style or casual meals are different.

I’m also hesitant to comment or expand on my previous comment. I guess I’m less forgiving or more polite as a guest. Even my Cherokee background was ‘eat what is offered’.

As a guest I eat at least 2 bites of each food offered because I was raised this was polite and I continue to feel this way, unless allergies or medical condition prevents it. Even if it’s something I find off-putting or something I’ve previous not cared for. I might find I like it given the way it’s prepared. If a seasoning is offered by the host or at the table and I wish to use it after tasting, fine. I feel the same way when serving guests. If they do not like it, they don’t have to eat it. If they ask for condiments, I’ll oblige with a smile.

If I were to serve an informal meal I would wish my guests to dress, dine, and behave with that same informality and comfort.

However, if I were to prepare beef bourguignon or kobe beef or anything somewhat expensive or laborious to prepare and a guest covered it with ketchup or something similar, I’d not be happy – I’d not say anything though. The next meal served to such a guest would be a simpler creation.

I feel the same about a vintage wine. If a guest were to load the glass with ice cubes, I’d keep quiet, but the next meal offered would include a less cherished wine which they could water down.

If I invite someone to dinner and go to the trouble of preparing a clearly nice meal, and they spend the meal texting and checking twitter, they’d be invited to a group BBQ next time, but not to a sit-down meal.

If someone were to show interest in my sibling’s artwork, were then given artwork as a gift, and then altered it, I would consider this defiling. Most accomplished artists would. If someone buys a painting, they can do as they wish with it.

I do not dictate how someone should eat in the privacy of their own home or a casual atmosphere, nor do I dictate how a gift be used or treated, or even re-gifted. But repeat kindnesses to those not able to show a modicum of politeness would be altered to the person’s tastes.

I would first want to taste hot sauce on lasagna before being judgemental. You never know....it might taste great. Even food evolves.

Last time I had some of it one of the pasta dishes presented off and on at the hot food bar of a local green grocery had a definite peppery edge to the tomato sauce.

Automatically adding toppings to dishes that hadn't been tasted beforehand seems kind of dumb and rigid to me. Like wearing the same clothing or hair styles for the rest of your life that were in fashion when you were a teen. As in no allowance for changing circumstances ever being part of the involved mindset.

And of course ketchup is typically full of sugar* and many dishes have too much salt to begin with - I once saw one of my aunts salting a store bought pizza.

*At this time HALF of Americans are diabetic or becoming so

I would be surprised but not annoyed. Who am I to say how he eats his food?? Not my business and why should I care?

Now, on the other hand, if SIL poured hot sauce over the WHOLE batch of lasagna, that’s different. That would be the same as HIM telling ME how I should eat my lasagna.

2ManyDiversions, exactly how I feel, both about the food and the wine.

It does help to know the guests that you are cooking for. If I knew a guest didn't like fish, than I wouldn't serve fish. I also wouldn't serve Beef Wellington or rib eye steaks if I knew that the guest liked their beef medium or well done. I guess I wouldn't have to worry about a guest adding ketchup to beef wellington , since neither would ever be on the table to begin with and if they asked, I could honestly tell them, it isn't something that I keep on hand.

Now if it was a BBQ with burgers and hot dogs, I would make sure that the condiments were all available and they could help themselves.

"I also wouldn't serve Beef Wellington or rib eye steaks if I knew that the guest liked their beef medium or well done."

Same here: ) I won't dictate a person's desire to eat well-done rib eyes, but I also would serve something else more suited to well-done.

Exactly, it does help to know those you are serving.

I don't think people have been brought up the way I was for a very long time. Whether or not it is a "family meal", one would never ask for something that was not being presented on the table, to be provided. It would have been very bad manners. We're not all lucky to marry into or be born into a family where the one doing the cooking actually can produce a tasty meal. Sometimes, it's god-awful! I think back to the meals my uncle's wife used to prepare. When we went to Arkansas to visit my relatives, we had to have dinner at my uncle's house and it was a true trial for ones palate. We took a bite or two, stirred it around a bit, and were very grateful if there was some decent bread to eat. There was never butter and in my childhood, margarine still came as a big slab of white stuff that looked like lard, and a packet or orange powder to make it look like butter - Aunt Vera never got it very evenly mixed.

People today do not understand the difference between a meal prepared in someone home or a restaurant. They also don't understand the difference between a catered meal with a restricted menu and a restaurant. Talk to any caterer about how often a guest says he doesn't care for either choice and would prefer something else! NOT one of his choices! Some become quite belligerent.

I have a close friend whose SIL is not only a picky eater, but also quite rude and obnoxious. He does not like to eat or even SEE anything "creamy" on the table. If he does, he makes quite an uproar over it. His dislike make a 4th of July party at their summer home a bit of a challenge as one would usually expect potato salad or slaw with the burgers/dogs. They'd all like to drown this boar in the ocean!

Boorish people are also boring people. It would be nice if people could just learn some basic manners. If a family member truly would not eat much of anything without hot sauce on it, I'd probably put a small cruet of hot sauce in front of his place with no fanfare - it would just be there. Or a small dish of catsup with a small spoon for it. I don't like bottles on my tables.

Self centered orientations appear to be epidemic these days, with aggressive driving and rude or thoughtless shopping behaviors, other socially dysfunctional demonstrations of lack of concern for others standard fare anywhere there is more than one person involved.

"If it's what I want, that's all anyone needs to know"

Embothrium, this could be pointed at both sides. To the person who adds the hot sauce to all of this food because he wants to, or to the people that are annoyed/offended by it because it's not how they want it.

It wouldn't even bother me much if someone put an ice cube in their wine. Is it better to be a boor or a snob?

Unlike the party offering the food, who may have spent all day preparing it a guest that smothers a host's carefully prepared culinary masterpiece with ketchup etc. is a visitor in their home, who didn't have to do anything except get dressed and show up.

Sorry, it's boorish and thoughtless.

Whereas at a restaurant or catered event the food provided is instead a product that is being paid for. With the main problem with objecting to the selection provided by a catering service being that they have no ability to provide something off the menu once things are underway.

Making such objections silly, unless for medical reasons. In which case the caterer still has no ability to do anything about it.

I always read "SIL" as sister in law, until I read a masculine pronoun after it. I have a sister in law, but I do not have a son in law, and I guess that is the reason.

Reading this thread makes me somewhat glad that I no longer have family meals with relatives - at least not since my parents passed away in 2012. My remaining relatives all live in Texas, and I feel like I have spent enough time there already and do not relish the idea of going back.

When I lived in San Francisco in my 20s, I gave dinner parties frequently, but I haven't done that recently - it does not seem to be as much in vogue anymore, and I seldom get invited to anyone's house for dinner either. Jimmy and Maartje used to invite me, but we seem to have grown apart, partly I think because they are more concerned with their son, who is now 23, I think. Anyway, I am out of touch with giving dinner parties and with going to them, and I do miss it - just not the ones with relatives. When our niece comes to visit, I do make meals for her and her husband, but when my sister visits, she always wants to eat out. If I do try to prepare meals when she is visiting, she always wants to help, but I generally prefer to do it all myself, but I do try to find something for her to do so that she can feel involved. When I visit her, she does not allow me to help her, as a rule, but she will allow me to prepare food for myself. It's been more than three years since I've visited her, however. At one point, when I was transitioning between San Francisco and Austin (when I went back to university for another degree), I stayed with my sister and her husband, and since I was not working, I did the food shopping for her, made dinner for us, and also made clothes for her. I think she resented it when her husband would ask her why she did not cook the way I did, and this may be why she does not allow me to help her when I visit. When I visited friends in Mexico City, servants prepared everything, and I was allowed the ask the servants for whatever I wanted. Customs do vary from one culture to another.

My friend Bernard does come to visit once a year from Sacramento and stays with us a couple of weeks to help with landscaping. I make dinner for the three of us when he is here, and I always ask him what he would like to have, but he is very easy to please. However, we have to buy milk, coffee, and sugar for him while he is here, as he goes through a lot of that. It is a lot easier to please a small group than a large one.

Lars, your recollections reminded me of visiting my sister & BIL (the same one I mentioned above) and cooking meals for them. I would have food ready by 9 pm, knowing they tend to eat rather late, but a few times, the food sat there until 11 pm and of course, was congealed & stone cold by then. That was irksome to me because we all missed the optimal time to enjoy it.

I am amazed by the reaction of the many, many of you who go to superhuman lengths to prepare food that corresponds to your guests likes, dislikes and dietary requirements......only to be happy for your guests to effectively throw that effort back in your face by covering it with x, y or z.

Good manners don't cost anything and should someone go home hungry,they won't starve......might even do them some good ;)

Islay, I put the guest before the food. Good manners dictate that the guest put me before the food. Some guests do and some don't, and despite the frustration about food altered by guests, I'm more comfortable when guests alter the food to their taste than I am with the suspicion that guests choke it down just to spare my feelings.

For me the point of entertaining isn't the food, but the pleasure of having the guests' company, so the guests' comfort comes first and if they're happy altering my food, I can live with it.

I am fulled of extreme examples, LOL!

It was considered to be very bad luck and bad manners to use knives and forks, (those are weapons of mass destruction) to eat Chinese food, especially during New Years holiday celebration.

Yet -----.

dcarch

Well, some pretty interesting comments. I'll add my two-cents here as well.

Years ago, when I first started cooking, I would get absolutely crazy if a guest didn't at least taste what I cooked before adding anything to it. Over those years, I learned that you can't please everyone and those who try will only live a life of frustration. So, I adjusted my cooking to where just about anyone could eat it without complaint and with, if they so desired, a minimal amount of modification to fit their tastes.

Some examples:

I used to like many foods hot and spicy. My guts have primarily forced a change there, but I still like the heat, only I add it after the food is cooked. Hot spices don't necessarily have to get cooked into the raw food, they work just fine adding them afterwards.

I don't use salt in anything I cook because of high blood pressure. I tell everyone who eats food that I cook that there's no salt and feel free to add it as you see fit.

While many people abhor ketchup, I don't. I put it on hot dogs and I leave it out where folks can see it and ask for it if they want it. Remember, some people consider ketchup to be an essential food group.

Someone mentioned wine. I ONLY drink cheap stuff and it's usually Chianti. If you want to dump an ice cube into it, go ahead, but I'll warn you advance, that I always chill it before serving. I have a great appreciation for wine snobs; I was one once. The practical application of wine is the same as cannabis - to enhance your food. So drink up, any way you want it, and if you want white wine with meat and red wine with fish - go for it.

As far as what to cook, I always tell my guests in advance what I'm cooking and ask if they eat it or would prefer a substitute. Again, I'm not a chef so I cook the way most people eat. I'm not going to try my hand at something I've never cooked before when I have company coming for a meal. Experiments are for immediate family. If you cook something for the first time, don't expect perfection the first time.

Eating is an essential for life. If you put obstacles in the way, people will starve and that's not good.

Well I once was invited to a dinner party and the chicken that was served was not cooked enough. It was pink. I choked it down (and didn't get sick) but I would have loved to have had the option of smothering it with something to make it go down easier.

Yes indeed good manners cost nothing. And it cuts both ways.

jerzeegirl, color doesn't necessarily equate to doneness, it's the temperature that counts. The chicken has to be cooked to 165 to be considered safe but that may not necessarily mean there's still not some pink left. Also, smoked chicken adds pink color to the meat. Here is more info: https://www.thekitchn.com/chicken-still-pink-after-cooki-157168

Now if it was CLEARLY under cooked, no way in hell I'd be eating that.

Sending guests away from a dinner hungry is a good way to make sure that they do not come back. Most people I know want to please their guests and find common ground that will satisfy both the host and the guest - it is not that difficult but does take some planning and shows that the host really cares about the guest. Some hosts are very accommodating and some are not - I tend to avoid those that are not. For that reason, I do try to avoid eating at my sister's house. I am always very appreciative of hosts that are accommodating, and I try to be that way as well.

Is it really a question of people having to "choke down" the food if they can't see any ketchup? Isn't it more realistically that they'll just say to themselves well, if I was at home, I'd have ketchup but I'll be different tonight. Carol, yes, i do know how to be a polite hostess. If the guests were considerate and polite, you'd never know that they were missing the xyz.

I think thats if you serve strange stuff to your guests, then you can expect people to find a way to tell you they can't eat it. I have friends who celebrate Burns night. I don't go because nothing on earth would persuade me to eat haggis. Millions of people love it. I wouldn't sit at her table and smother the food that she spent hours cooking with xyz and offend her. There are many other occasions when we can share a meal. If for whatever reason i had to go, id nibble around the edges and say nothing.

If they need to put ketchup on everything than the problem lies with their taste buds or lack there of. Why would anyone want everything they eat to taste like ketchup?

I have never once had a dinner guest ask for ketchup or any other condiment for that matter.

Islay, I've been to a few Burns nights and eaten haggis. I think you're pretty much expected to eat it with that ubiquitous and mysterious "brown sauce" it's served with. It's ok. Basically just another sausage. Manners go both ways. I will assuredly be annoyed with the person seeking out some random condiment to adulterate perfectly good food it wasn't meant to be served with, but I'm not going to say anything or even roll my eyes and I'm not going to refuse the condiment. I'm also not, however, going to put them on my frequent guest list. I understand medical, ethical or religious dietary restrictions and, if I am aware of them, I will avoid potential conflicts for my guests - I'm not going to invite Jewish or Muslim friends to a pig roast and lobster boil, for example, if I know they avoid those foods. I often have vegetarian guests and it's not a problem for me to cook a vegetarian or primarily vegetarian meal. But, I am not a short-order cook, so I generally expect people to partake of what I serve or to decline the invitation. Please, if you're on some fad diet with a long list of stuff you do and don't eat, just say no to the dinner invite - let's get a cup of coffee and take a walk instead, although, frankly, I don't want to hear about the diet of the day then either.

Plant based eating isn't a fad, it's a way to avoid having your diet kill you. A percentage of medical doctors have been advocating it for years. With it having become recognized that most so called aging diseases are the result of how people are eating, with falling apart in multiple ways with age not actually being the normal, inevitable condition.

I didn't say plant based diets are fads. I am, however, uninterested in accommodating whatever paleo-wholewhatever-cabbagesoup-noglutenfornoparticularreason-fasting-lowcarb-younameit program of the week some people are on. And, yes, I consider it very rude for people to show up for dinner and then announce their various limitations.

Funny, my sil showed up at our place this weekend wearing a saracha tshirt

When I cook, I want people to eat. If they want to eat it with extra salt, ketchup, hot sauce, honey, or whatever, then why would I care? Let 'em! I want my guests to enjoy their food and the company.

I feel like me being annoyed with them adding ketchup would be the same as them being annoyed that I did not. Everyone has their own tastes. I compare it to what someone is wearing. I might internally think, "Ugh! I wouldn't wear that" or "Oi, that outfit is not flattering" but that is as far as it goes. So... if someone is happier adding condiments or salt or whatever to their food, whether it's what they cooked, what they ordered at a restaurant or what I cooked, it simply doesn't faze me past the thought of "Ugh! I wouldn't eat it that way!"

I agree -- let people eat what they want/enjoy! I'd never think of withholding a condiment from someone based on my preferences. In fact, I'd be mortified if I didn't *have* a condiment they requested. :p

I just got this comment from the Princess: But it's not your food anymore, it's MINE! I know she was actually talking about brownies because I asked her why in the world would she put Nutella on MY perfectly good brownies. She pointed out that once I put that brownie on a plate and gave it to her, it became HER brownie, and I guess she's right, LOL.

Annie

If its something mundane and everyday it's a different thing than a meal you've slaved over for hours in order to please people. That's my humble opinion, so if you want ketchup on my beef Wellington then don't accept my invitation lol.

My uncle is a great cook (as is my aunt). And not in the more casually inventive way of my mom and myself. He takes cooking seriously. (A friend once quipped ‘why don’t their cookbooks have any pictures?’) They lived in Italy for years and usually prepare Italian or French food.

They often hosted family/community gatherings and would attempt to make some accommodations to various dietary eccentricities. That said at some point he had heart troubles and ate a fairly restrictive diet - and when I would eat in a restaurant with him he would NOT ask for special treatment because he thought it was disrespectful to the cook’s creations.

I can see both sides of this.

Awww as I write this I realize all should be in the past tense. He has Alzheimer’s and while not completely gone he doesn’t cook anymore.

So sorry to hear this. Must be really hard

I don't think I've ever had someone ask for a condiment that wasn't on the table as a planned part of a meal, with the exception of my late grandfather who did put ketchup on _everything_. I _was_ a little irked but would never have said anything.

But if I had a BIL who performed like a trained seal if he simply _saw_ something "creamy" on the table, I would add to any invitations, "Since the majority of us enjoy [potato salad/whatever], please be aware that I will be serving it. You would not be expected to eat any, but we'll understand if you prefer not to attend."

LOL, Colleen, my stepdaughter once told me that she would gag if she saw one drop of blood or even red juice on a plate of meat. I told her that I ate my steak rare, and she could have hers well done if she wanted, but otherwise she should not watch me eat. She can do whatever she wants to HER food, but I'm going to do what I want to MINE.

Agmss, I'm sorry about your Uncle. Elery's mother died with Alzheimer's, it's a horrible thing.

Annie

DH loves hot sauce, barbecue sauce or mustard on everything. Yes it annoys me when I have seasoned a dish just so. But- I remind myself life is too short to worry about things like this.