The frustrating thing is, every other plant I’m growing in this grow room, including peppers, are doing just fine.

Opalka is by nature a wispy appearing plant when compared to most others. Even when it is healthy and mature. However the plants in your photos are much more than just wispy. They are heavily stressed.

They appear to be severely nutrient deficient (which can be from overly cold air temps or lack of nutrients), showing physiological leaf roll (which is an inconsistent watering issue), and given the collapsed appearance of the new growth - root damaged.

So what and how often have you fed them? What soil mix and size of containers? What is the ambient air temp? Hopefully they aren't on a heat mat?

Dave

They are in MiracleGro mix with some Osmocote Plus added. Roots are nice and white. They are in 4” Rootmaker cells - like you’d start trees in.

I wasn’t using them for root pruning per se, but they’re nice and big.

I just can’t figure out how I’m screwing these up. All my other plants look fine, in the same conditions and media.

I grew some last year that turned out fine, the only difference they’re being they were actually in smaller containers, and the ambient temperatures of the room were a bit warmer. Although at this point it still doesn’t get any colder than the mid 60s in there.

Perhaps try a weak solution of liquid fertilizer, and make sure the soil is evenly moist. Also, this feels like a good place to mention that I added mycorrhizae to my tomatoes when potting up this year, and they have really grown quickly, strong and healthy.

It almost looks like they're thirsty, have you pulled one out of it's pot to see how moist the lower root zone is? Once my seedlings get their first set of true leafs I start watering the containers from the bottom by dipping the cell packs in a container of lightly fertilized water....best guess.

It’s moist.

Sometimes the only way to discover what is really wrong is to make a big change. Like take a couple of them and transplant them deeply into something deep (like the red plastic cups so many use) filled with new potting mix that has been pre-wetted well then wrung out, give them a 1/2 strength dose of a low N LIQUID fert, and move them to someplace warmer. Then watch what happens. They should improve quickly.

If they were my plants I would never count on the fertilizer supposedly in MG or any low-dose, time release fertilizer like Osmocote to provide enough nutrients for seedlings. There is just too much evidence, often discussed on the Tomato forum, against that approach t working.

And keep in mind that you can't make valid comparisons between different types of plants. For example, the nutrient and water needs of peppers are quite different from tomatoes. However for what that comparison may be worth, your peppers are too pale, greenish yellow in the photos which would also indicate nutrient issues. And they also show signs of leaf edema which indicates a watering issue. Peppers will tolerate leaf edema, tomato plants won't.

Hope this helps.

Dave

They look slightly better.

They weren’t too cold. They were too HOT. Temp under the lights was hitting 95 with 20% RH. Turned a low speed fan on them and they somewhat perked up in about 18 hours.

My previous thread mentioned temps. I may not have in this one.

If you are happy with their appearance in this latest photo, great. They still look pretty sickly to me and if they were mine I'd be trying hard to resolve the issues.

All that purplish foliage shows a lack of phosphorous in the leaves and stems and that is not normal. It is caused by either a) nutrient deficiency in the soil or b) by overly cold soil/air temps that cause P uptake problems. And all the leaf roll and leaf edema in the photos is a sure sign of inconsistent soil moisture issues. All scientifically well documented.

While 95 degrees isn't ideal for young tomato plants it sure isn't any threat to them. Acres of tomato plants are grown in 90+ degree heat every year.

You don't have to like all the suggestions made but you did ask and folks try to help. So how does disputing the suggestions or ignoring them help? Then again perhaps it is just your frustration with the whole process of gardening that comes through in your posts. If so then try to relax and enjoy the learning process. Perfection isn't possible anyway.

Dave

95 degrees?, maybe they were thirsty after all ;-)

You might want to consider TPLD. It is distinguishable from phosphorus deficiency. Interveinal purpling of the upper leaf surface. But maybe I see from your pix that the purpling is on the lower leaf surface? That would be phosphorus.

http://www.growingproduce.com/crop-protection/disease-control/tackling-tomato-purple-leaf-disorder/

Not sure how widespread it is these days. Also not clear what long term effect it has on the plant.

I doubt 95F was the cause of the problem, as others have said tomatoes can handle this though not ideal. It was probably exasperating the real issue -- unless perhaps they were actually touching the lights.

But it was also very dry. Physiological leaf curl can be caused by hot, dry conditions.

Dave -

I had them on a heat mat for a bit, and they grew faster, but then the rolling/curling started, so I took them back off.

I did give them a liquid fertilizer to see if lack of P is an issue.

The cells are fairly large (4”) and the roots look good. I could try to up pot but would need a larger grow light - there just isn’t enough room.

I also know that greenhouse tomatoes are typically allowed to get to 45 at night, far colder than what mine have seen.

1) lack of nutrients.
2) time to transplant into something bigger

tomatoes grow vigorously, they out grow their pots very quickly. 4" pot is too small for their size already. they need to be moved to at least a half gallon to 1 gallon pots.

transplant, then after a few days, lightly fertilize them.

There isn’t enough room under my grow light to put them in any bigger of a pot, because it’ll take up more room.

This plant variety or these particular seeds may just be genetic duds. Don't grow them next year.

> There isn’t enough room under my grow light to put them in any bigger of a pot, because it’ll take up more room.

you have to make a choice then. find room and get them in a bigger pot or they will continue deteriorating, nothing else you do will make them better.. i am pretty sure that's what's wrong with them -- stress from small pot.

if the temperature is above 50 outside, transplant into something bigger and put them outside during the day (start them in partial shade) and bring them in at night.. the plants would likely do better than where they currently are.

next year start them later, or plan ahead to have more room / light.

I have a couple of ideas. First off, there’s one tray under the lights that I can probably move out fairly soon, mostly hardy/perennial herbs like thyme, cilantro, and Sage. Will free up some room, and I’ve got a couple of extra tomato plants, because I always allow for culls. So by taking out the worst plants and removing that one tray, I can probably make it work to pot them up.

And I do believe you’re onto something as far as them being too big for their pots. Three weeks ago we were talking about how they stayed too wet. Now I’ve noticed that they’re dry and wilting only about 36 hours after I water them.