Who installs a makeup air system? (or... more stuff I need to learn!)
NJ Mom
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
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kaseki
6 years agoNJ Mom
6 years agoRelated Discussions
New construction: venting and make-up air for 48'' range
Comments (4)Wow! A rare case where the aesthetics part of the performance-aesthetics-economy: pick-any-two limitation is not a factor in hood selection. But first, given a sealed household, I would strongly recommend obtaining a furnace kit to use outside air. This will avoid the possibility of the MUA system not working perfectly and the hood causing negative house pressure and hence backdrafting of the combustion appliance. I know that such devices exist for Beckett burners, and would guess that there are adapters for other burners. As the OP correctly notes, a 200 cfm ERV is not going to cope with a 1200 cfm vent hood. (Actually, what would happen with a sealed house is that at full power, the hood would pull the cfm the ERV would let through into the now minus a couple of inches w.c. house pressure.) So MUA is essential, and in the mid-Atlantic region would be pretty uncomfortable in winter if unheated. Depending on one's tolerance for heat and humidity, cooling in summer might be optional or not. We are starting to get into the realm where performance-economy, pick any two is applicable. MUA can be roughly characterized as passive or active. By passive is meant no fan in the circuit. Active uses a booster fan to keep the house pressure stable. No-fan only works for simple ducting with a vent hood air flow controlled damper. (A recent post here provided some sources for these.) If a filter is used at 1200 cfm (or whatever flow actually could be pulled with all the doors and windows open, then the house pressure will drop. One can see on websites selling filter packs that the pressure drop at such flow rates is too large for combustion appliance safety, which require negative pressures not be greater than 0.03 to 0.06 inches depending on appliance type. Active is needed to overcome the filter restriction. It may be needed to overcome heating heat exchanger restriction and/or air conditioning heat exchanger (expander) restriction. The difficulty with active is balancing the MUA air flow rate against the variable hood flow rate such that the house pressure is near zero. This usually requires a control system of some sort, and can be a "project." What to do? What to do? Only one free-of-processing-controllers active MUA has occurred to me. In the simplest embodiment, the hood control is connected to two parallel wired identical fans, one in the hood exhaust path and one in the MUA path. Then the two will (try to) operate at nearly the same flow rate at every control setting, and one only needs to adjust the MUA duct restriction until it matches that of the hood path. More exactly, adjust the MUA path so that house pressure falls very little as the hood is turned on. Note that this doesn't account for bathroom fans, fireplaces, or other exhaust flows not due to the hood. In such cases, PID control of the MUA fan would be needed. In my case, due to a 1500 cfm hood, 1000 cfm over-oven vent, fireplace, and three bathroom fan household, I am building an active MUA that will use an axial blower in the 2000 cfm regime. It has to overcome the pressure loss of its intake vent, its filter, and its heat exchanger (which is hot water pumped from my oil burner). Control is via a Fuji PID controller operating from a BAPF differential pressure sensor. The motor power control is not yet selected, and a lot of sheet metal action is still needed, along with further attic revisions that I seem to have trouble getting to at the needed rate. I recommend the OP and/or his HVAC person read the "Kitchen Ventilation Systems Application & Design Guide" that may be found at Greenheck's web site. It periodically moves around, URL-wise, so a Google search by name may be fastest. Greenheck or one of its competitors may be able to provide what you need for considerably less agony than a do-it-yourself HVAC project would. kas...See MoreNeed Advice - Kitchen Hood/Makeup Air
Comments (42)Any time the flow of air (or part of the air) has to change its velocity vector (direction and/or speed), even slightly, work is done on the air, and this requires either heating or force times distance. Pressure is force over area. Velocity change occurs not only when a duct bends, but when there is turbulence in the duct or at the duct walls, or when the air is forced through a filter, around baffles, etc. Thus, there are many ways that pressure drops occur along a flow path. If not, one could blow through a straw without having to build up pressure in one's mouth. I use a large (three-foot-square) vaned ceiling diffuser to introduce MUA into a hallway adjunct to the kitchen. The diffuser is about 18 feet from the edge of the hood. This configuration was the best option relative to where I could take the air from the roof area. It is my expectation that by the time the air gets to the vicinity of the hood it is flowing relatively smoothly and low in velocity due to the size and length of the hall. Certainly other approaches would work for other kitchens depending on where the air is taken from and how a house is architected. Test kitchens use a porous diffuser panel in an adjacent wall to the hood under test. I am sure that from a functional point of view, MUA flowing out from enough toe-kick area would also work, so long as it wasn't somehow directed at the stove. For example, if a cooktop were on an island, and the entire toe-kick area were grilled using a set of registers, the MUA would flow out and then up in a way that did not disturb the rising effluent from the pans. Even down flow behind a refrigerator can work if the path behind and underneath the refrigerator is relatively open (several times the area of the supplying duct.) Never forget that perfect is the enemy of good enough, and what we are trying to accomplish is good enough capture of grease, moisture, and odor. Good enough is also user dependent, so not everyone needs to put up with the compromises that a nearly perfect MUA system would impose on a house. So, my best advice is to find a way to introduce the air that doesn't blow at the cooking zone and disturb the natural rise of the cooking effluent. kas...See MorePlease advise - Make-up Air system
Comments (2)The Broan makeup air damper for kitchen ventilation was the first residential application on the market. I think they deserve some credit for offering this design while others were silent. I've read the easiest passive make up air approach is a run of tubing in the basement through the crawl space to the outside, with an appropriate critter cage attached. I've had to read the below Broan MUA spec sheet a couple of times or more. Newer models may be available. Looks like you best come up with a installation guide for the Ventahood you choose. It will address a lot of the questions you ask. So you're going to run the ventilation ducts up to your attic and then out exteriorly to a cap? Your HVAC contractor should definitely be in on that. Good luck. Kitchen range ventilation is tough on the mind and budget for many of us. Here is a link that might be useful: Broan MUA damper This post was edited by SparklingWater on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 21:47...See MoreWho installs makeup air? General contractor? HVAC contractor?
Comments (4)I agree, talk to a good HVAC contractor. Finding the good ones is the key point. I'd question if what you are asking for makes sense for your house (how new and how tightly, or not. is your home sealed). Do you want unheated/unconditioned air coming directly into your kitchen, do you want to stand under that supply of air when it is 32 degrees outside? Qualifier: I'm not familiar with Fantech products. What is used in newer, well sealed homes are devices knows as HRV or ERV (Heat Recovery Ventilators or Energy Recovery Ventilators). What these devices do is get any heat from air being exhausted from the structure (cooking, bathroom exhaust, clothes dryer exhausts, etc.), and exchange the heat to add it to air coming into the structure (some do exchange of moisture along with heat). In some areas, northern and colder climates and Canada, these devices are required by code. If your structure is older and enough makeup air comes in through door and windows seals, mail slots, screen doors, garage entrances, dryer and bathroom exhausts when not in use, etc., etc. then you don't want this arrangement. A good HVAC contractor will have someone on staff who understands all this stuff and can tell you what options make sense for your house....See Morekaseki
6 years agoNJ Mom
6 years agoionized_gw
6 years agokaseki
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