Second attempt submitting a post. Marquest, Wow, you weren't kidding when you said Petunia seeds germinated..Your 'denia plant is filled with beautiful, purple Petunias. One year, Petunia seeds dropped in my citrus. The seeds germinated in winter, but nowhere as nice as yours. Or filled as yours. Mine had three pink blooms. Do you add dry or fresh fir needles in your plants? Where is the Gardenia trunk??? PM, The Fragrant Forum has a ton of information on hardy and tropical Gardenias. Some threads are passion-packed...when a member is having problems with their 'denias. PM, don't get me wrong, I love computers. Electronics in general..Example, light bulbs. :) But, I feel our society is too dependant on the net. As a child we 'walked' to the library. I do admit researching online is much easier than dressing, walking, then sorting through a zillion books to find information on one particular subject. So, guess I'm a little old-fashioned. lol I love reading, but refuse to get Kindle. Amazon emails weekly, reminding me this electronic device exists. My dh makes fun when another email comes in. Especially since I spend so much time online. Guess I'm a hypocrate...lol Logee's! In the mid-90's, I ordered from Logee's religiously. Back then, plants were shipped in 4" pots, well-rooted, and shipping wasn't all that much, though it was higher than other nurseries. Problem was, I didn't know of other nurseries. Don't know if Logee's sold my name, but I started getting catalogs from other nurseries. Two of my favorites were Stokes Tropicals and Mellinger's. Nowadays, you'd have to get a loan to order from Stoke's, and Mellinger's went out of business, in the early 2000's. Back to Logee's. In early 2000's, they changed. Plants were shipped in 2"-2.5" pots, barely rooted. Shipping outrageous. Via one order I bought a citrus. If you ever saw a photo of Logee's citrus, you'd be placing an order. What arrived was a 3" stick. Oh, crap happens. So, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. A couple orders later, plants were arriving in awful condition. I finally phoned. Customer Service Reps are very nice and helpful. They sent a replacement plant which arrived large, well-rooted. Why didn't they send a plant that nice in the first place? After another order or two, I said, heck with this nursery. Their over-priced plants aren't worth it. I can get the same plant on Ebay or most online stores, for half the price, and much larger in size. I will admit. I ordered a Thanksgiving Cactus, 'Aspen,' that's impossible to locate. A seller on Ebay sold Aspen cuttings. He made a small fortune. One buyer paid $94 and change plus shipping. So, I ordered the TC and a Begonia from Logee's. My bill was over 30.00. Anyway, that's the Logee's story. lol You sure are experienced with plants. Perhaps, one day, you can give me some outdoor garden tips. Because of back/knee problems, the last two years our garden has been duds. Weeds do fine though. lol. Well, let's say I've been growing indoor plants at least 25-yrs. I first got hooked as a child, when we'd go to my aunt's farm in MI. My MOTHER didn't allow plants indoors, but I managed to sow veggie seeds at 11-yrs. My first house plants were given to me as gifts when I moved out of the house at 18. They died..too much lovin'. PM, it's really nice talking to you. Mike...here you are.... Gardenia's are like the old saying...a watched pot never boils..Mike,, you must stop watching. :) Oke-e-doke, once your 'denia produces, you owe us a photo or two. Hugs, Toni PS: PM, please don't take offense regarding Excel. :_

Ditto- But I'm just Mentioning my Perrinial Type Plants, that I have Kept Not just going for many yrs but Super Big in size as what they are from their Original warm yr round Orgins/County. I did it just as a Challange , Test to see and its worked and being Cheap . While saved the Money ( Ave $100) Rebuying them every year, I paid for it in Time and Effort .. and have you ever seen "Spikes" 4-5 ft Tall, like Mini Palm Trees? Or the same 5 ft tall Gerrainiums? or 6 ft accross Asparagus Plants? Not only blow the minds of Family and friends vistiing, but I bring one of them to our Annual-late Summer Garden show in town and have won an award every yr these past 5 yrs..Nobody has a Such Large ones as I have ! Especially all the Women & Pro's that have been doing Gardening alot longer than I have. I got One Pro Gardening Business doing the same now and they are catching up with the size of mine now! Went into their lace last Feb. and saw them in their Place/Atrium....selling for $100-$150 each! Germs 5x bigger than the usual $25 baskets with Stalks the size of Small Tree trunks! Takes Loopers to cut them or a hand saw! Just like Growing those 500-1,000 Lb Pumpkins! I grew them too for 5 yrs ! my Biggest was only 465 lbs..but started the Annual Largest Privately -Locally Grown Pumpkin contest in our town ! This Season? the Biggest was 678 lbs! by some 83 yr old Woman, that nursed it like it was one of her Grandkids, she said..! And since we're a Lake Resort town? The Great Pumpkin Boat Race was held this Yr for the 1st time too! 8 entered to win the $100 1st prize, $50/2nd and $25 for 3rd and Alot of Laughs! by the Jaycees! Special Prize ribbon went for the sexiest Owner- a 61 yr old former Playboy Bunny woman ( The Playboy Club Resort was in our town ), she did that job for its last 2 yrs in business here and She still looked GREAT in her Old Bunny Costume no less! Maybe she let out alittle In the Butt and alittle more support in the chest and wore a Wig, but her Bunny Tail & Ears were very cute & Sexy! ;-)

Eden has stiff canes similar to William Baffin, the best I could do was train it at a 45 degree angle , I think it was too stiff to do anything else with. Darlows Enigma is a hardy shrub/climber for me, hardy to the tips. Starts blooming for me around this time with dark red new foliage. Repeat bloomer, sets hips for winter interest, very fragrant but probably the worst thorns ever. The blooms are single and white. Another very hardy climber for me is Seafoam, this rose will do whatever you want it too do. Starts blooming around now and goes well into the fall,no fragrance but that's OK because it has exceptionally healthy,dark foliage. The blooms are white, a little pink in thefall. I have another hardy rambler called Ghislaine de Feligonde. This reblooms for me, if I deadhead. Some people on the forum says theirs repeats and others say theirs doesn't. This thing is a MONSTER for me, and hardy to the tips even after this last winter. Blooms are yellowish to pink, very pretty. As far as structures go, they are always iffy for me. Eventually the older, thicker canes of the rose are what I tie the new shoots to. For additional color for my once bloomers I either plant clematis, liatris,daises or any tall perennial. Oh I also have Veilchenblau, it has always been hardy to the tips. Young canes are easy to train if you get there soon enough. Once bloomer, but when it blooms there are so many you can't even see the foliage. Orange hips in the fall, leaves turn a nice yellow than as well. Semi double blooms, every shade of purple, will get as large as you let it. It's practically thornless. Honestly winter protection is a gamble for me, some people bury the canes in the winter, I did this once and the rose got canker. It's just too much trouble. If I had a rose I loved with questionable hardiness, I would plant it close to the house where it would not be subject to northern winds.

Thank you, NHBabs. I appreciate the information about the large roots of clematis plants. I have a lot of interests and hobbies in addition to other commitments and I tend to run out of steam or one of my joints needs oiling. I bite off more than I can chew. Oh, and hot humid weather (common here) doesn't agree with me. Part of the problem was that I intended to put the Clem's and other plants into the ground, but also didn't have the space made ready. If I'd planted them, I would have had to relocate them later. I've transplanted established clematis before, but it's not my favorite thing to do. In late spring or early summer I picked up three odd-lot box store clems un imaginatively labeled Red, Blue and White -- obviously not first in their class. So that's where that red one is from. It and it's siblings didn't get particularly good attention over the summer. Next to it on the bench at the window is a VdL. I had to dig that one up to give it _something_ to get it back to health. It was touch and go, but now looks healthy. I've had that (or pieces of that) VdL for about 15 years. I had to relocate it a few times. I like it better than the no name red, but not as well as my lavender or medium purple clems. I vow to be kinder to her. I could use more sunshine, better soil, less hill and tree shade. I have to keep in mind that dark-hued plants tend to get lost here unless they are in full sun and have a light background -- not red cedar, say. Thanks again for your responses. I now have another question. When I plant these outside in (April or May), I suppose I should cut them way back, leaving about 8 to 12 inches of vine?