I feel for you! Even after having researched all my roses extensively, they obviously didn't read the HMF stats! (I'm looking at you, Munstead Wood!) Beyond actual size, it's also really difficult to find any info on growth habit. Being a newbie, I didn't clue in to the fact that the HT shape of Dark Desire was exactly opposite to the bushy shape I needed in my upper beds. I didn't realize floribundas were what I really wanted.

Gardens are never a finished project. They grow and evolve continuously. Even if you knew what you know now 4 years ago you'd still be making changes. We all do it all the time. I think it's part of what we all enjoy about gardening. It never gets static or boring.

We've all been there. Our yard has room but not all of it is suitable for gardening, let alone roses. I research roses as much as I can before I plant, but like vaporvac's roses, mine never read HMF. Big roses aren't always so big. Small roses aren't always so small. Moderate roses aren't. I move around my roses like checkers on a checker board trying to make everything fit and be happy.

Lisa, this is only a suggestion. My guess is that if you can find a home for half a dozen or so, it will ease things a little. Have you thought about donating a rose to organizations that could use a little help with landscaping material? Take one of your monsters- the healthiest and most likely to bloom and grow no matter what happens. Look around at some of the smaller churches, public spaces and places like senior centers, shelters or halfway houses. Offer to not only plant it for them but stop by and help with care and pruning for the first year. You might also check with a neighbor or friend with the same offer. And don't be afraid to get rid of roses that aren't doing well for you!

Kes, I love the idea of gifting some to neighbors or others. I wouldn't want them to be the poor performers though, like you said, I would want to give them my favorites knowing that they might be able to derive the same pleasure from them that I do. Perhaps I should just be rid of those that don't preform heavily or plant them in my front yard to feed the deer.

Totally laughing at the statement that roses don't read the reports on what they are supposed to do. I love the replies that gardening is in constant change and shifts but at the same time is a shown work of our efforts. For a mom of four who does never ending cooking,laundry, cleaning, driving and soothing it is so nice to have something that shows that I've been working hard. It is a huge creative outlet for me and brings me a lot of joy and feeling of progression instead of feeling I just do the same things every day with no real building on what was there the day before. Though as a side note, my children are 80 billion times more amazing than my roses. That's an inadequate number.

Thank you Moses, I always respect your advice tremendously to everyone. You are very eloquent and wise. Perhaps I should in the fall, instead of going to the Antique Rose Emporium to acquire more, focus on rearranging and putting to use the things I have learned to fix my mistakes. That being said, my 2 Boleros haven't yet arrived and when they do, someone is going to have to be uprooted to make way.

You all give me constant inspiration, something to strive for, with your pictures, knowledge and support to each other.

I am making the same mistakes even now in my third year of gardening ! Our Fort rootstock makes a big bush and we are supposed to plant 6 ft apt . I plant 3 ft usually then have to transplant within 6 mos .A new bed I made last week , I planted 4 ft apart but it was painful to leave all that empty space !

When I made my one visit to the heirloom roses area of Descanso Gardens many years ago now they had been hard pruning everything like they were all bedding roses (Hybrid Teas etc.). Even 'Kiftsgate', which was somehow blooming well despite only being a few yards across, if that.

So it may be possible you can hard prune your existing collection on a frequent enough basis to keep everything contained and it will actually work.

As long as you don't mind them looking like Hybrid Teas, with a small number of comparatively young branches being all that is present on each specimen at any given time.

For that matter another version of the same thing (hard pruning of half the plant) is undertaken every year at independent garden centers, where the roots of field grown roses at least have typically been whacked way back by the retailer at potting time. Apparently in order to get them to not immediately overwhelm the display space later. Yet most kinds still manage to make a pretty good presentation, go home with somebody that first year.

Don’t feel bad Lisa- I’ve been there and I’m still learning. The first teas I planted in Dallas were waay too close together, little did I know the monsters many of them grow into in TX. I find plant culture, gardening, and sharing of knowledge a continuing journey and really enjoy new experiences (both mine & others’). ‘To plant a garden is believing in tomorrow’

I still plant all my roses very close together. When you have a postage stamp backyard and you want all the roses in the world, you will continuously make this mistake time after time again.

Lisa,

I think proper spacing is an issue many of us can relate to. We want more roses, they don’t always grow as we might imagine they would. When they grow bigger and healthier than we expected, that’s a blessing itself, but now there’s not enough space. We’re willing to prune, but not so much that genetic natural size of the plant is severely compromised. Are there less desirable spots (by the garage, in some place out of view) where a couple of these roses could go? I’ve put some really beautiful shrubs and roses on the west side of my house where no windows look onto them, but I still enjoy strolling there to see their beauty

pink rose,

Yikes, 6 feet apart for each Fort grafted rose?! I had never heard a prescribed average distance for Fort roses, so I’m very glad you heard that and posted it. I thought more like 4 feet apart for larger HTs in southern climates, which is about what I’ve done. I do think if I relocate just 2 or 3 bushes next fall, the rest will have adequate,, if not ideal, spacing.

Lisa,

I did the same thing when I started 15 years ago.

1) Take those catalogue descriptions with a huge grain of salt when it comes to sizing, quality of bloom, fragrance. If you have a local rose society, you can get more accurate info from them, and tons of info here from gardeners in your zone.

2) Wait till the roses are dormant to move them and don't get rid of your favorites, get rid of the ones you like the least. Keep your favorites, they deserve you.

3) Make a plan on paper. Measure your space and make a grid. For me it was 1 inch = 3 feet. This is fun to do in the winter and will stoke the rose fire that burns deep within!

4) Sometimes you have to make a tough choice. Remember, the shovel is your friend. It only hurts for a minute.

Ben T

Actually 6 ft is my local rose society's recommendation for Fortuniana root stock .I think they may allow some room for airflow .My Fort bushes are pretty big after 2 years in the ground easily 4 ft wide . They keep growing into each other and I have to cut branches constantly .

The wide ones are certainly a problem and what a pain to have to move them. We all have to make some mistakes in our enthusiasm. Just wonder if any of them can be grown as uprights on supports or structures like a large obelisk, or creative trellis shape or "umbrellaed" or pillared around a pole etc. like they do at some rose gardens.

ljsemar, As others have said, we've all been there! I have 32 roses in my yard and I've probably pulled out that many over the years I've been planting. I used to plant anything I saw without regard for what it wanted and needed—I'm in Western NC and there are more roses that don't like that climate than that do. I've planted roses too close to trees, too close to walls, and too close to each other. Dug 'em up, moved 'em, gave up, threw 'em out, and started over and over again.

I also got out of control monster roses. Followed suggestions to trim and eventually I lost them anyway as the cuts were susceptible to insects. I say grit your teeth and take them out. If this is any consolation, this won’t happen to you again and you will be reading mature size info much closer than you used to.

My entire yard is a midge Podgorica of bad location decisions lol...I have a huge yard, and a limited budget (aka broke) so I’d buy stuff on clearance and just throw it anywhere without any research only because my yard was all lawn and nothing else..so I have huge ninebark shrubs right in front of windows because when I bought them they were scraggly little twigs so I figured they grow maybe 4’ ..LOL! One is like 12’ tall now! I have stuff I’ve planted in groups only to have half the group decide to grow at a different rate than their sister group so instead of a cool repeated fashion, it looks like a Pinterest garden on one side and a Pinterest fail on the other side! Hahaa..so this year I’m going to really try and dial it in and make my yard have some flow and look more professional rather than an absent minded gardener with a bad case of ADHD (even though that’s exactly what I am! Haha)

I've been growing roses for forty years at least; first in Ohio, then in north Texas, and now in southeast Virginia. The lessons keep coming!

I made a new bed here and planted it with antique teas. No real monsters, I at least avoided Mrs. B R Cant. But I spaced them about 4 to 5 feet apart and worse yet, two rows. Big mistake, I couldn't get in there to weed or feed. Needless to say I have since disassembled that bed.

You made my day!! I think it's a problem we all face at one time! I did save myself a lot of grief by reading everything here! I am ADHD and will move something in a second! lol I don't have the budget to buy many at once and plan my plantings. I stick stuff in the ground, then find one I like better, move the other one and on & on...but thankfully, I love to dig in the dirt! I doesn't help that everyone here enables you....posting gorgeous pictures...making you want just one more...

I agree. You sound a lot like many of us. I think we all imagine roses being smaller than what they can actually reach. I have a feeling I’m going to be in your boat as soon as next year.

I love how I tried to write ‘modge podge’ and autocorrect changed it to something else entirely! Lol

Nessdizzle, that's hilarious, but my mind actually just read it as 'hodge podge'! My problem is VR. Sometimes it picks up the TV and then my post are completely nonsensical. Now I really need to look up 'Podgorica'! Is that really a word?

I think that’s actually what I meant! Lmaooooo I think I’m thinking of the stuff I use to make Xmas ornaments with my kids hahaha (Mod podge?) oh who the hell knows what I meant...but regardless my ‘landscape’ is all over the place hahahahaha

And let me know on the ‘Podgorica’ lol I’d love to see what it actually made me say..even though none of what I said made sense! Lol!!

That's hilarious! We ought to write a post where no editing is allowed and see what that reads like! LOL!

Yes, hahaha

I have my roses six feet apart but when I see so many roses look beautiful that intertwined with one another looks even more beautiful and compliments.

I have Maggie and B.R.Cant. I left those 2 alone. Within 8 ft apart. But the rest, I start to put 1 or 2 within 6 feet and then realized what if...time will tell.

Yes, temptations to buy more is bad. Limited space is another issue I have. And I know I messed up just matter of time.

Unless, I redesign my backyard my chances are slim with limited funds. I rather do interior first maybe in time but I doubt it.

Thinking of doing pots which I know nothing about is another research I need to do .

Jin