Can you make your pantry a "hidden pantry" which means that the doors into it will look like tall cabinet doors? Then you could move your doorway from kitchen into the dining room down the wall to the other end of that run of cabinets. That makes your kitchen cabinets look like a big L shape. Mine are like that and I love it.

I'd also consider moving your refrigerator the wall where the ovens are because the range wall will be your focal point from the family room. It'll look more balanced if you move it.

Consider the distance from your master suite to the kid bedrooms, especially if you have another child. That's quite a long trudge to make in the middle of the night for a crying baby/toddler. It's also quite a distance away for an older child to get into mischief (don't ask me how I know about that ;) ) Personally, I'd swap the media room and master bedroom locations. There would still be enough distance between kid bedrooms and the master if you put the ensuite in the Bedroom #2 area.

In your master bath, I can't tell how large that shower is but it looks HUGE. You lose a lot of space between it and the garden tub (will you use that because most people don't?)

I'm not a pro but these are just things I see from remodeling/building 4 houses in the last 20 years.

One more thing....if you make that wall go straight across the back instead of insetting at the Family Room area, you'll gain square footage in the FR with very little extra cost.

I just noticed your garage dimensions as well. Depending on the size of your vehicles, 22' is not wide enough to have a large SUV parked in the garage and have any amount of comfortable walking space around it.

@cpartist - I was going to ask the same thing about having five bedrooms but decided not to go there....lol. Glad you asked it!

Edited again: That's a pretty small dining room. Depending on your family's needs, I'd consider having one larger open concept dining room on the back (where the breakfast area is) than having such a small dining room.

@cpartist - I was going to ask the same thing about having five bedrooms but decided not to go there....lol. Glad you asked it!

I have nothing against 5 bedrooms...if needed, but in this case, I'm thinking the same space could be better utilized in other parts of the house. It feels like the main rooms are small for the size of the house and for the number of occupants.

@cpartist- we want that many rooms, in the even we have grandchildren. Also bedroom 3 and 4 we were planning to use as my girlie room and my husband's gaming room. That way we all have our own personal space. And I TOTALLY agree we need to make the dining space bigger.

@shead- I agree that we probably won't use the tub now, but we were thinking as we get older, we probably will. not sure if we should get a smaller one though, since you mentioned it. And I never thought of a hidden pantry! I love that idea!

I really like the ideas you 2 have. I am certainly going to go over them with my husband.

@India Tuck - I totally understand needing a "girlie room" :) As long as you will utilize the space now, then having those rooms isn't a bad idea but like cpartist said, you are sacrificing space in other parts of the house to have them. I would hate for that to be wasted space until 20 years from now, kwim?

The style tub that is drawn is probably not an "aging in place" style tub. Those are bears to get in and out of and therefore, many people never use them. Personally, the older I get (and I'm only 40), I'd prefer a shower with a bench than a tub. We didn't even put a tub in our master when we did our last reno and I won't have one in the next house we are going to, either.

If you do think you'd use a tub when you are older, you might consider making one of the tubs in the other bathrooms a jet tub.

@shead- You know what? You are right! And honestly id rather have two water closets than a shower. And the shower already has a large bench on it, so we'd be covered! I like the way you guys think!

@shead- It has also become clear to me that the dining room needs to be extended at least 2 feet. Looking at the measurements I now see that it is actually smaller than our current dining room ( which is already tight). Man oh Man, I am so excited! Keep your ideas coming!

i'd caution against planning a forever home unless you are already 60, and even then not unless you have a crystal ball. life takes many twists and turns. plan an excellent 'next 15 years' home and then go from there.

As shead said, no you won't use a tub as you get older. Hubby and I are both retired and built our retirement home 2 1/2 yrs ago. We did not put a tub in our master bath, we put in a large shower. We did put a tub/shower combo in the guest bath.

We plan to live in this home for the rest of our lives ..... Until you don't.

Lol...so if the massive tub is gone, move that window towards the shower a bit and move the other vanity to the same wall. You'd have one long wall of vanity, which might save you money in the long run. That window will allow more natural light. Consider putting a closet where the smaller vanity is now for towel, toilet paper, etc. storage. I can't tell if you already had a closet for that in the bathroom or not.

If you are extending the dining room, are you taking space from the kitchen or moving the front wall out? I hate to see you lose kitchen space for it. I'm assuming, too, that you plan to have an island in the kitchen?

One thing to remember on builds is that every time you jut a wall in or out you are losing square footage for the cost factor. Sometimes that can't be helped if it compromises the exterior look, but often, especially on the back of a house, you gain if you have straighter walls. Keep that in mind, thought, if a GC is trying to charge you x amount of $ per square foot because he's gouging you for actually saving on labor and material costs. That inset you have for the family room costs you space but you still have the same amount of roofing materials and you actually have MORE wall materials (lumber, footings, etc.) by having the inset. Sometimes it's a wash overall. That being said, look at the inset on the front of the house where the bathroom is as well as on the back of the house where the master bedroom is insets.

I also agree that the current breakfast area is very small. If you are having an island with seating, is it necessary to have an additional breakfast space for the three of you?

Yeah, I'll pile on the no-tub-for-oldsters bandwagon. I'm 62. We have one bathtub in this house, unfortunately in the master bath, with a showerhead in it. If it weren't the ONLY tub we have, I'd have gotten rid of it before now. In a nearby bathroom, we have a 4' wide shower with a zero entry and a built in bench. It's wonderful and roomy and easy for me to access last year with a cast on my leg.

If you want a tub to use today, that's fine. But don't plan on using it as you get older. 62 is not all that old, but you know what? I'm not going to get younger. I can't imagine sitting down in a tub and then GETTING BACK UP. While wet. Nope. Not gonna happen.

@cpartist- we want that many rooms, in the even we have grandchildren. Also bedroom 3 and 4 we were planning to use as my girlie room and my husband's gaming room. That way we all have our own personal space. And I TOTALLY agree we need to make the dining space bigger

Instead of trying to build a home that will be too big when your children have flown the coop, build a house that will work for you and your family for the next 10 years. I can tell you that at age 63, I am now building my third forever home.

This is a home with lots of wasted space for a family of 3 and lots of spaces to clean and maintain.

I'm getting ready to start renovating our 3rd forever home in 15 years. This time it'll really be our forever home. Well, unless DH dies first.....

I've learned the hard way to never say never and to NEVER, EVER say forever.

The average "forever home" changes owners every 5.34 years.

(I made that up, but it sounds right based upon my experience)

If you want to increase the potential amount of time you live in your home, engage an architect to design the home to meet your needs (present and future) and fit your site. Do not use a builder's plan where there is not enough space to walk into a walk-in closet.

“Forever “ home ? Hmmm.... we’re in our third forever home & have decided to start planning for the future as we age. We will be looking for a smaller single story home in a few years even though we love our current home in a dream ( for us ) location ... and even though I’m not that old & consider myself fit, I never use the tub in our house & had the large tub in the master bath replaced with a large walk-in shower.

As you can see from above responses, many have experience with living in (multiple) forever homes.

It is good to plan for a few years ahead of course as you can see needs changing (ie adding another child to your family), but you can never foresee ALL the future may hold. What if you don’t have grandkids and now have empty rooms to still clean? Silly IMO to take on the expense for hypothetical grandchildren 20-30 years away, who if they do come to be would likely be happy “camping” in the living room.

What if as you age you are perfectly mobile but are dealing with dementia instead, and instead of “aging in place” you need full time care? Everyone seems to plan for “aging in place” contemplating wheelchairs and maybe just needing to hobble around with a walker, but there are plenty of other things that can happen as we age that have nothing to do with wheelchairs and make “aging in place” impractical or even unsafe no matter how ADA compliant the home is. In my own family experience, wheelchairs have never been necessary - if if about making adaptations for people living and dying of cancer at 50, 60...adaptations that no one really wants to put in their house while they are 30 and healthy “just in case” - like hospital beds that are convenient for patient and home care, often not even in a bedroom but still in hub of home where person can still be part of daily family life and spend time with visitors in a comfortable communal living space and not be relegated to a “sick room”.

Access to bedrooms 3 & 4 is awkward. It will be difficult moving furniture in and out. If you are someone who likes baths, then the big tub in the ensuite makes sense, but big deep tubs generally require MORE effort to get in and out of than a shower. It is common in ensuites to skip the tub altogether these days. For me it’s a personal preference thing but having to go through a master ensuite to get to closet - especially with the hike of your setup - would be tedious in a very short time.

I am very curious about the exterior and roof of this house. There are lots of jigs and jogs...not only meaning more expensive to build, and meaning more wasted space, but likely a messy (read ugly and expensive to replace) roofline.

A 1.3M build is not common for young people with a small child. Most begin with a 1000 sf starter home first, then a move up to the 2000sf one. And some never get to the full featured “forever” home. Unless this is a House Hunters episode. Is this on TV?

“I’m a dryer lint artist and my spouse is a French poodle dog walker. We want a 4000 sf overblown home on acreage and our budget is 2.5M”

"Dryer lint artist"??

IMO to plan a space for forever would be a one storey house IMO 5 bedrooms are too many even with grand kids we have 4 of them they are rarely here together and when they are they sleep where ever there is room. I am 70+ and still love my bathtub and would never build without one but it would never be a corner one. I agree the plan is very chopped up and I would never have a kitchen without a window not some surrounding windows but in my actual kitchen. You need to sit down with an actual architect IMO this builder just doesn’t get it.

OK...you have grand dreams! We all do.

As others have said, there's no such thing as a "forever home". Nope!

Why? Lots of reasons. For example, life brings unexpected changes. Family changes. Job changes. Marriage changes. Health changes. Financial changes. On and on.

Unless you can pay cash for the construction of the house, you are committing yourself to as much as 30 years of mortgage payments for a house which will not meet many of your family requirements over the 30-year period. Family requirements change quickly: young family with growing children; adolescent children; children at college or working; children with children who spend most of their time as a family elsewhere; empty nesters; empty nesters with health and mobility issues; assisted living time.

This is a great HGTV plan. It's also an expensive plan. It's not a reality plan for many of us.

Good luck with your project.

I'm only 64 and don't feel old yet, but my tub days are gone. If you don't use tubs now... you won't down the road.

I like to think my build is my forever home, but I know better. I put in some ADA features, but who knows? I'll just enjoy everything as long as I can.

PS, keeping your kitchen bright with daylight, assuming you cook... inspires the spirit. Dark and drab interior kitchens... no way.

Well, I'm 74 and I never use my shower, only my TUB! I much prefer a tub and I can still get in and out of it.

So after reading all of these amazing comments, we are going to really slow our roll, and sit back down with the architect. I truly appreciate each and every one of you commenting. I have learned so much. And I still leave this open, to receive any other ideas anyone may have.

India-We are a family of three (our son is 12) living in a 5 bedroom house (2200 sq ft). While we were hoping to be a bigger family that did not happen, but we like having a shared bedroom a mom's study and a dad's study...and everyone can have a room to have alone time. My study is actually a pretty small bedroom. That being said, we don't really use the guest room that often, and I think we would be fine with four bedroom. I am also not sure if you need a jack and jill bathroom if you are not using the rooms as bedrooms.

Also, if you have extra rooms, I am not sure that you need a "media room" and a "bonus room"...I do like the idea of a media room (ours is a sun room) but how many spaces do you need.

It appears that your closet has prime real estate. I can't read the room on the left of the door...I don't know if it is a second dining space or a third living space.

Forever homes actually only are forever for 10-20 years. We built one like that in 1978, by 1984, forever changed.

We are now in our Retire/Expire home because at 70, forever may not be that long :-) It has a full basement, but the basement is hobby/spare bedroom space. Everything we need is on the main floor, and the entryways can be easily adapted to ramps. It would have been too small when the kids were home. And the previous house was a split entry, not good for us when stairs are becoming a problem.

Closing off the upstairs worked in older houses, not so much in newer ones. If a roof leak develops, it could cause a lot of damage before being discovered. Animal incursions the same thing, as would be insulation problems caused by leaks/animals. Closing off HVAC vents is a terrible idea, so energy savings is not really realized.

Closing off a wing is more doable, but would still need at least monthly inspections.

If you plan to only have one more child possibly, do you need a 5 bedroom house?

A good question. This is a lot of space for three /potentially four people. I think you're planning with the idea of "let's incorporate every possible space we could ever want" philosophy. For example, you say you want five bedrooms for future grandchildren ... is it realistic that both children (one who doesn't exist yet) and the grandchildren would all visit at once ... and that none of them could sleep in their parents' room or the media room or the bonus room?

You have three eating areas and none of them are large enough for more than a small table.

Another good question ... but I'd bet they'll have an outdoor table too, bringing it up to four eating areas. My suggestion: Go with a breakfast room sized for a small 4-person table ... plus a dining room with a larger (not just fancier) table. That gives you two different spaces.

Also, I'd lose the back door in the breakfast room ... once you place a table in the room, you won't have easy access to that door ... and, instead, put a door in the great room.
Can you make your pantry a "hidden pantry" which means that the doors into it will look like tall cabinet doors?

I don't know about a hidden pantry, but I would prefer to see the pantry nearer the garage entrance (so you wouldn't have to carry the groceries all the way through the kitchen).

Consider the distance from your master suite to the kid bedrooms, especially if you have another child.

I don't think this is a problem. You're on the same level, not far. Consider that once the kids are teens -- or if you need help once you're elderly -- you'd rather have the master suite located apart from the secondary bedrooms.

I do like, as you said, that you'd be able to close off the extra three bedrooms once the kids are grown and out of the house ... but do you really need that much space to be closed off?

And honestly id rather have two water closets than a shower. And the shower already has a large bench on it, so we'd be covered! I like the way you guys think!

Eh, several thoughts on this:

- Toilets in closets are not elderly-friendly. As for building two of them ... how many minutes a day are they used? I'd rather spend the space in other areas of the house.

- Be careful not to go too big with the shower. You'd want to be able to reach grab bars on each side ... so 3 1/2 - 4' is about as wide as you could comfortably reach. We're opting to skip a shower bench ... and we're going to put in a moveable teak stool ... this means we'd be able to swap it out for a hospital chair, if needed, in the future. Definitely include a hand-held shower that could be reached from a seated position.

i'd caution against planning a forever home unless you are already 60, and even then not unless you have a crystal ball. life takes many twists and turns. plan an excellent 'next 15 years' home and then go from there.

That is realistic. Jobs come and go, neighborhoods change, marriages, priorities ... so many factors.

As shead said, no you won't use a tub as you get older.

Eh, maybe, but you also have a lot of years until you're "older". Do you use a tub now?

1.3M build is not common for young people with a small child. Most begin with a 1000 sf starter home first, then a move up to the 2000sf one. And some never get to the full featured “forever” home. Unless this is a House Hunters episode. Is this on TV?

This is a fair assessment.

What I see here is a plan that includes all the HGTV "must haves" and little consideration of what would actually work well. I suggest you spend some time reading about house plans and function, then get serious about your plans.

Other thoughts about the layout:

- I agree that the jigs and jogs (and the complicated roofline they will necessitate) are not desirable. A more simple footprint will cost less to build and will be less prone to water damage /expensive repairs over the years.

- I agree that the natural light in the rooms could be better. Consider, too, that the room with the best natural light is the media room ... the place you don't need it!

- I'd want a door between the master bath and the laundry room. Compare the red line and the green line and see how many steps it'd save:

I think you need to sit down and figure out exactly what rooms you need and want. Not the rooms that are part of your fantasy 20 years in the future and not rooms that are part of a fantasy of how you'll live if you have the rooms. It never happens.

For example, in my last house I had a large formal dining room because I had visions of entertaining by cooking gourmet meals and then serving them. However that wasn't how I entertained before having that house, it wasn't how I entertained when I was in the house and it isn't how I entertain now.

My style is more informal. Buffet with lots of goodies prepared beforehand and casual seating throughout. So in my last house, my dining room got used 2x a year during the two times a year I was goaded into doing full family dinners (sisters, their spouses, parents, etc). It made me anxious for weeks before.

My old house where I raised my 2 kids also had a formal living room, a family room, a playroom, a sunroom, a large office space, the formal dining room already mentioned and 4 bedrooms. Guess what? The only rooms that were ever used on a regular basis were the family room, the kitchen and the bedrooms. Oh and when the kids became teens they hung out in the sunroom with friends.

My new build has 2 indoor eating areas. The island for breakfast and the dining table in the kitchen for dinners. Entertaining will be informal with food spread out buffet style on the island.

We only put in the rooms we knew would be used now and into the future and some of the rooms do double duty so they are utilized on a regular basis. For example, the guest bedroom has a Murphy bed so when it's not being used for guests, it will be used as our exercise room.

My studio which will be used daily as an art studio, will also do double duty if needed as a secondary guest room since I will have a pull out couch in the room. DH has a smaller office space.

Our bedroom is comparatively small but still fits a king sized bed, and our master bath is definitely on the smaller side but still has a bath and shower and double vanity. We don't need a large master suite since we spend very little time in it.

However we did splurge on our outdoor area and a fairly large living room that opens to the outdoors, since we do like to have friends over, we are in FL and I know DH and I will enjoy our pool. Plus the dog likes to run around the backyard.

What I'm trying to show is that DH and I sat down together and said, what are the rooms we absolutely need to have at this point in our lives and which rooms need to be most important. What would just be wasted space and rarely used? Sit down and figure out what are your absolute needs and what are wants. Don't overbuild. Build only what you need and will use and figure out how to make spaces do double duty.

Good advice from CPArtist, and I like the way she's walked you through her reasoning and her thought processes.

Surely your needs and wants will not come out the same in the end, but I urge you to do what she's done and edit thoughtfully and consider what rooms you will need now ... and in the likely future.

CPArtist says you can do this without overbuilding -- and she's right. Don't add a separate room for every activity you think you want /will want. Rather, fit it into a moderately sized house ... then you aren't paying for /maintaining /paying taxes on space that's closed off.

It's a very large home for forever but I live in 1650 sqft, family of 4, and we don't even use the formal living room so what do I know lol. I find cleaning all the floors a task that gives me a workout so I can't imagine keeping these large homes clean especially at 60 years old. Im 29 by the way and in shape haha

Lesson I learned, when my son left for college we found that we only used the kitchen, master bedroom & bath, and family room on a daily basis ... all the other rooms remained unused 95% of the time and, even if they’re not being used, they still need to be cleaned! I can’t wait to find a smaller single level ... ( they’re difficult to find where I live since land is very expensive, & most are snapped up as “pocket listings “ before they hit the market ).

long term, the size of house you need is based on your interests. if you are a quilter, a dedicated sewing room is wonderful. if you are a woodworker, you'll want a nice shop. if you are a reader, you need a chair, a bookcase, and a lamp. if you are a cook, a nice kitchen. and if all you do is watch tv, a couch and a big tv is all you need.

while i chided the OP for trying to figure out what you need 'forever', i'm not saying you dont need space, just that you cant necessarily determine what space you need right now.

we are 2 people in our early 60s with a 3 story, 5 bedroom house. we use every single room, every single day. i'd go mad if i had to live in 3 rooms on one floor.

You got a lot of advice!! I think we all are in pursuit of the 'perfect' floorplan.

My only comment is this - the media room is by the kids' bedrooms. If you use the media room for loud movies after the kids are in bed, it might prove to be a mistake.

If it is more of a kid space, then it makes sense.

I use my formal dining room 2-3 times a year, but I still want it those 2-3 times. I look at it the way I do a very dressy cocktail dress or an evening gown - rarely worn but needed when it is needed. I would never willingly give up my FDR. My LR is also rarely used these days, but I enjoy just having it and walking through it twice daily.

I guess I'm lucky that I have these rooms and am not building a house today as I might have to give them up due to high building costs, but never willingly.

So, it's not just WILL your actually use these rooms, but how much to you still want them even if they are rarely used?

Consider a home sized to meet both current and future needs -- such as two bedrooms upstairs with a bath and a half between them and two bedrooms downstairs with a bath and a half between them.

The rest of the downstairs could be a huge great room (living/dining/kitchen) "L" or "T" shaped with an entry in front and a mudroom/laundry room (with or without a powder room -- give it a window if you add one). A screen porch between the house and garage could provide not only covered access to the home from the garage but can also provide the option of a separate outdoor living area from the back deck for those times when the adults and children want some privacy from each other outside. A utility room attached to the far side of the garage for a mower and yard tools would come in handy.

One of the downstairs bedrooms could actually be a bonus room used as a guest bedroom or a home office or den or hobby room. One of the bedrooms upstairs could be the guest room and/or hobby room and/or game room and/or play room for your 8 year old son.

By putting only two bedrooms and a bath and a half (along with plenty of closet space) upstairs, and two bedrooms downstairs, your home is both good for a family with child(ren) -- protecting resale value -- and good for "empty nesters" -- and still good for when grand children visit.

Well, I'm in my late sixties, hubby is in late seventies, and we're delighted with our single story house :) Smallish master bedroom (but BIG shower) for us, plus two spare bedrooms, one of which is the guest bedroom and the other of which is our gym/music room. We also have a TV room/library. Decent sized kitchen, with lots of storage (so much that I almost never have to climb onto a step ladder to reach things up top). All rooms are used every day (except the guest bedroom, although hubby has been known to have an afternoon nap there).

Incidentally, in the 2 1/2 years we've lived in the house, we've had family visiting overnight precisely twice. The kids are spread out across the country, pursuing their different careers/businesses, and the grandkids are starting to scatter as well as they go on to their own schools and careers. People are much more mobile than a couple of generations ago, and that's the reality of today's world. I wouldn't build an oversized house to accommodate guests who may never come.

What I'm saying here is that your house should be designed around your life, your interests, your needs for today and the immediate future; they shouldn't be designed around someone else's view of what is idyllic (just see the arguments for and against baths/showers or wood/tile floors on other threads!)

The shower and tub in the master bath have got to go. Soooo '90s.

Tatts, the reason something may or may not work has Absolutely Nothing to being '90s. Unless you are just stuck in a world of trends past and present.

Did people only take both a shower and a tub in the 90's? Guess I didn't get that memo! I prefer my tub now, but in the past when I was still doing my own hair, I used the shower. If my husband were still living, he'd prefer the shower.

When did having both a shower and a tub become a "decade" thing? Ridiculous!

Anglo, I think Tatts was referring to the tub and shower being angled in the corners

Thanks, cpartist. Yes, and especially that oval corner tub--do they still make them?

What’s the living sq ft of this plan? It’s not too clear, 4,000? TX is so hot, the bigger indoor space would be better. If OP can afford the cost, she shall go with her dream. The people at work age group in the 30’s, they don’t want a 2,000 sq ft house, it’s too small for them, they hope for 2,500-3,000 sq ft homes, and many of them lease fancy cars since they can’t afford to buy one. Time has changed these years. We have educated consumers.

"...We have educated consumers...."

Until it comes time to pay for all of that extra space on top of their car leases...

I know what you’re saying. They also have student loans....,,,

...dryer lint artist...ROFLMAO!