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pitterpatter94

Herringbone backsplash?? center on wall or cut off bottom to sit flat

7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

Hi,

We finished our house about 2 years ago and have just received our backsplash tile that we are going to attempt to install. It is a marble, herringbone patterned mosaic that will have the pattern pointing to the right, NOT the "M" pattern shown on some pictures below. We have never done this before. I have read a few tips on how to do this and will list below but have a few questions for gardenweb.

1). I can't figure out the placement of the first mosaic tile square.

* Should the square be centered on the wall, requiring cutting small pieces be installed on the top and bottom of the mosaic square?

* Or, do I cut off the pointed edges of the first row of mosaic squares so they will rest flat on the counter and then work up installing tiles?

2). Last question, this "special order tile " (not returnable) looks a little lighter then the sample I had. The granite, Alaska White, has a softer white and the tile is a brighter white like the cabinets. What color of grout do you think would look best? Taupe?? I want to pull the granite, cabinets & backsplash together. I know undercabinet lighting, that we do not have yet, probably will play a factor in coloring

3). Do I rent a wet saw for this job? It is marble but small pieces? If not, what do I use for cutting?

Tips I have read:

>Begin tileing from the center of the wall so the ends of the wall have the same size of cut ends

>I will be laying down cardboard over the counters, plastic on cabinets, and drop cloth down on floor

>A straight level line should be marked on the wall horizontally & vertically to line my tiles up against

Thank You!!

So you can have a look at the space:

Comments (56)

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm with your designer, that back splash is beautiful, and works well in your large kitchen! And yes, IMO 2 patterns can exist next to each other. Your current gray paint shows you what a single color back splash will resemble closely. It's safe and calm. Here is a picture with a multi tone back splash and your Alaska white granite.

    Not too busy with a white kitchen, and interesting! I would personally crave a little more than a 1 color tile BUT it's not for everyone. I prefer your herringbone over the subway shape in the picture.

    Your kitchen looks amazing so far, I would absolutely have a pro install your tile. Or go and practice tiling a bathroom first :) This is not the place to learn a tiling lesson. Please post an after picture no matter what you decided to go with. Good luck!

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gosh,

    I am really surprised that this tile is not well received. I built my house using garden web. I truly respect the opions here. We will be finishing a wet bar/kitchenette area in our lower level this year so I guess I could use this tile there with a plain counter top. This tile was super expensive and I really love it but would hate to mess up my house with installing something that is the first thing you see when you enter our home. I thought the boldness/size of the individual tiles offset it being busy. A tiny tile not work.

    If would appreciate any recommendation on something that can be installed with a herringbone pattern.

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  • 7 years ago

    I also think you should use it somewhere else. I think the undertones are wrong. The tile look pinky and the counter looks yellow-y but it could be the lighting.

    That installation will be very difficult if you haven't tiled before. One way to save money is to pay someone to install it and you can grout it yourself.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    Herringbone is difficult to do well, so I would recommend that you use a professional tile contractor to do this. It's not for the first time tiler. If this were your 5th or 6th DIY tile job, I'd say go ahead and do a 3x6 classic subway in a herringbone. But mock that up first too, using paper cutouts. I think you have enough drama with the counter, and you will take away from it by trying for more in the backsplash.

  • 7 years ago

    I'm sorry but I have to agree with everyone else. The herringbone will make it busy and then the patterns on the tile will make it even more busy. Find a solid color ceramic tile. If you want just a hint of pattern in the tile, find a crackle tile. That's what I did with my very busy granite. The crackle tile is a great match to the granite, and the crackle up close, gives just the mere hint of texture.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I wouldn't recommend this as a first diy backsplash project. My DH installed ours in a block herringbone after many years of DIY tiling projects. I've seen a lot of pro mangled herringbone backsplashes.

    You didn't ask about whether we liked your choice. I broke several GW "rules" by combining a white granite with movement with a herringbone BS composed of three shades of white ceramic tiles. You will have to decide how much weight to give posters which can be hard. What helped me was seeing the kitchen of a very ...dogmatic... poster and realizing I didn't like it. We have different taste.

    I do have one question. I'm not totally sure why subway is considered to have/be "no pattern"/ not busy whereas herringbone is "patterned/busy" ?

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    On that note, here is an image of barncatz’s beautiful backsplash in the home she and her husband built themselves. It is beautiful tile, beautifully installed.

    There are individual tastes involved for sure, but generally speaking you want one showstopper, either the counter or the bs, usually. Trying to make both of them major elements in the space occasionally works as it did for barn, but often the elements compete with each other when they ought to harmonize.

    I suggested the Home Depot tile because I thought budget might be an issue as you’re laying the tile yourself, but we can do better. Maybe just think about it for a while, and tape the tile into place, live with it, see what you think.

  • 7 years ago

    Now that you added a picture of your fireplace, I really think that the large herringbone back splash is the correct one. The 2 vertical surfaces work well together, the busy granite lays flat and isn't competing as you look around the rooms.

  • 7 years ago

    The tile is not what I would choose, either, but it’s your house, and you should do what you love.

    I will tell you this: we are pretty accomplished DIYers, and have tiled 10 different projects. I am just now feeling confident that we can do a herringbone install on our next one.

    You’ve set a pretty high bar for your first time. You will definitely need a wet tile saw, but cutting mosaics is much harder than cutting individual tiles. You need to find a way to stabilize them so they don’t shift while you cut. Perhaps temporarily attaching them to something hard, like wood?

  • 7 years ago

    I am far from an expert but I really like the back splash and counter together.

    It's like when different patterns of fabric are used in a room and yet the whole thing comes together beautifully. Perhaps not everybody's taste but I appreciate that kind of thing when it's beautifully done. My neighbor had her unit done by Martyn Lawrence Bullard and it has all kinds of different stuff going on that works together beautifully - not something most amateurs could pull off without it being a hot mess of course :-) but her apartment is absolutely fabulous.

    It's the kind of design that takes a very trained design eye to execute well - I couldn't do it on my own but I know it when I see it see. If the tile and the backsplash speak to you, the go forward and trust the end result will be the vision you and your designer shared. It looks to me as though a trained design eye really selected an interesting tile that works exceedingly well with your counter - not a safe choice but a beautiful one. :-)

    As for whether it's a DIY job, I have no idea as I can barely hammer a nail so any tile job would be beyond my capabilities :-)


  • 7 years ago
    I agree it's too busy with the counter. In the photo the counter looks brownish and the backsplash greyish. Then you have the stone on the fireplace surround in view. It's too many stones and patterns competing for attention. If you must have a herringbone, I would use one in a solid color tile and a similar color grout.
  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I do have one question. I'm not totally sure why subway is considered to have/be "no pattern"/ not busy whereas herringbone is "patterned/busy" ?

    Herringbone creates a zig zag pattern across the wall which is naturally more "busy" than just a subway pattern. In this case, the OP would be combining both a herringbone pattern as well as a busier granite. It could work if she uses a single color herringbone pattern with a close colored grout. Not matching, but close.

    As for your three colors, your rule breaking worked beautifully because the colors tended to be subtle variations. In this case the colors run the gamut from white to dark gray.

    I feel there are lots of times when a busy granite can work with a pattern. I broke the rules in my last kitchen where I created a "bamboo" backsplash behind my cooktop even though I had Typhoon Bordeax granite on my countertops. However what I did was "enclose" the "bamboo" and the "bamboo" read as a subtle all over pattern and it was just one small area.

    In my new kitchen my counters are even more busy if possible and I'm going to again break the rules because the backsplash window behind my prep sink will be a stained glass window picking up the colors of the quartzite. Talk about combining patterns!

    Now having said all that, rules can be broken depending on the space.

  • 7 years ago

    Now that you added a picture of your fireplace, I really think that the large herringbone back splash is the correct one. The 2 vertical surfaces work well together, the busy granite lays flat and isn't competing as you look around the rooms.

    Actually i disagree even more because then the backsplash is also competing with that gorgeous fireplace. The fireplace has stone running horizontally and is subtle gray colors. Then add in a diagonal patterned herringbone pattern with colors ranging from white to dark gray? How many patterns should one large space have competing with one another?

  • 7 years ago

    Pitterpatter94 you've done such a beautiful job with your home...just wanted to drop in tell you that!

  • 7 years ago

    "Now that you added a picture of your fireplace, I really think that the large herringbone back splash is the correct one. The 2 vertical surfaces work well together, the busy granite lays flat and isn't competing as you look around the rooms.

    Actually i disagree even more because then the backsplash is also competing with that gorgeous fireplace. The fireplace has stone running horizontally and is subtle gray colors. Then add in a diagonal patterned herringbone pattern with colors ranging from white to dark gray? How many patterns should one large space have competing with one another?"

    Well, we clearly have different taste... which does not make my opinion wrong, just different from yours. And obviously the designer of this kitchen has it all wrong too.... because she doesn't share your opinion and vision. You have criticized my OPINIONS before also, again, they are just opinions. I always thought that this site for was free for everyone to give advice, discourage, encourage, learn etc...but I guess only the pros are the only ones who should comment. How dare I go against the majority and say what I actually think.... the nerve...

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I’m a graphic designer, specifically surface design, which means I design patterns for things like paper, fabric, etc. Here’s the short answer about patterns: Yes, you can mix them, but it does take following a few basic rules. The patterns need to be different enough to contrast (type, scale, color), but there also needs to be something that ties them together.

    In this case, the countertop is an organic pattern. It’s a great idea to mix in a linear pattern, like subway or herringbone. The reason why this situation doesn’t work (IMO) is that the marble itself is organic, too. So, now, you’re mixing two different organic patterns with a linear one, which is what is making it feel busy.

    You could, in theory, do two organic patterns as long as the scale is markedly different, but this isn’t. (Scale is also the reason that most mosaics don’t work with busy granite countertops, by the way.)

  • 7 years ago

    What a gorgeous kitchen! And what a bummer that you didn't get what you envisioned. I do like the tile that eam44 posted, you get the pattern you like without the competition. I also agree with cparist in that a crackle tile would be beautiful. Good luck!

  • 7 years ago

    sorry but i agree with the others., its just too much pattern and the colors don't coordinate well.

    your eye has no where to rest which causes visual overload. you have a beautiful busy counter, a fireplace which commands attention and then to throw in a busy B/S, its just too much. let your counter be the star!!

    if u love herringbone, then get a solid color with same color grout. it needs to be "soft". to add color do it with accessories.

  • 7 years ago

    You mentioned that the tile you received is slightly different than the samples your designer used to pick the back splash. This is very common and can cause major problems in decorating projects. It is very possible that the samples were more muted and a perfect color match to your counters, but the current batch is not the perfect choice.

    With fabrics I have learned to ask for a CFA ... cutting for approval ... a sample from a current dye lot. With tiles you can also ask for a sheet from the current production lot. Samples sitting in a showroom can be quite old and not representative of the current product.

    If you read the fine print, you will see that stores will protect themselves by stating that new product might not match the available samples. It makes picking materials that much harder. Been there, done that!

  • 7 years ago

    Hillside House, I used to be a home furnishings textile designer and wallpaper designer in a previous life (meaning when I actually had to earn a living) LOL

  • 7 years ago

    Well, we clearly have different taste... which does not make my opinion wrong, just different from yours. And obviously the designer of this kitchen has it all wrong too

    Read Hillside House's comments. They explain it better than I did. And sorry to upset you but there are certain design guidelines that help pull together elements, whether it's in a drawing, a fabric design or yes, even in a room.

  • 7 years ago

    That's a very beautiful space. Congrats. I don't know if you can get away with the pattern clash, but I think making it more static by running it up instead of to the right would give you a better chance.

  • 7 years ago

    I love your space, it's simply beautiful! As I stated above, I don't like the tile choice or pattern for your space, but I too love a herringbone pattern, and used it as a feature inlay in my shower. Maybe consider a clean white subway laid traditionally, with a herringbone inlay just above the stove, as not to compete in the entire space, but would still add that visual interest you're looking for.

    Also, it's hard to tell from my monitor, but are your cabs cream or white? Your kitchen looks more warm than cool, with your stone skewing more beige than grey - so be sure whatever you decide, to pick stone that pulls more creamy versus cool whites/greys.



  • 7 years ago

    "My kitchen is rather colorless and plain"It has STRONG textures and shapes in a monochromatic palette. Look at the patterns on the countertop, the moldings on the cabinets, the stones of the fireplace. It's not plain.

    You are putting high contrast, angular gloss marble herringbone, strong blotched pattern countertop and rustic rough stone fireplace into the same area. they clash.

    Herringbone installation is NOT for beginners. There are so many fiddly cuts needed that you will go mad. Marble is also a difficult material to work with, even with a wet saw and a new blade. It chips and shatters

  • 7 years ago

    Your space is so stunning! I agree with the other posters that the pattern is too busy with your countertops, and the color looks off too (the backsplash reads too cool for your counters and cabinets, at least on my monitor). If you are able to use the tile in your bar (and design around the tile), that would prevent waste and allow you to use that beautiful backsplash, while still keeping your kitchen cohesive. I, too, love herringbone, and I think a herringbone pattern will look beautiful in your kitchen, so long as you choose tile that is a solid color that matches your counters & cabinets in terms of undertone.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I appreciate everyone's opinions and ideas. I have struggled with the backsplash for a year.

    The space is open to the living room, dining and foyer. You see them all at the same time when you walk into my house. I wanted my kitchen to flow with the other spaces and not look too "kitcheny", so I keep the small appliances in a working pantry next to the oven.

    The cabinet color has a warm undertone.

    I do think the warmth of the granite and the coolness of the herringbone marble don't work. I guess I needed to hear it from you all.

    I did order a bunch of Fireclay sample tiles last year. Their brick tile has a natural color variation and had imperfections like I want. Do you like something like this? I thought I wanted a Mat finish and these colors are glossy.

    Here are my three favorite. But none are a perfect match.

  • 7 years ago

    I do like that fireclay tile! Because everyone's monitor is different, it would be hard for us to tell you which one works best with your counters though.

    Now having said that, I think I like the dark one at the bottom because it picks up the color also from your island and from your couches and mantle and looks like it would tie it all together. I also like the tile because it is a bit more "rough" and seems like it would work beautifully with your fireplace.

  • 7 years ago

    pitterpatter, I love patterns and movement, and I understand what you were stating initially - you don't want a colorless kitchen. Even given my propensity to overdue things, I personally agree with many in that the herringbone you chose would not look like you want it too, but the options you've picked above are very interesting and I think would add some of the pattern and color you're looking for without clashing. My preference would be one of the 2 upper colors, not the lowest darkest tile.

  • 7 years ago

    Ha! Posted simultaneously... and I'd trust cp's tastes.. but the darker doesn't match on my monitor, which just goes to show, we'll all have different opinions based on what we each see... monitors show differently : )

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Those fireclay tiles look like winners to me! In the first picture, the one on the left looks great, and would be my first choice. The middle one could look nice, but I personally prefer a lighter option. The one on the right could also look great, but I would like to see it held up next to your cabinets to see if they go (they are close enough in color that if the undertones are even a little off it will be obvious).

  • 7 years ago

    I'm very confused... are the top three tiles different than those in the bottom pic?

    These look like 2 sets of different tiles on my monitor.

  • 7 years ago
    Will you please put more of the taupe and cream tiles up?
    Thank you !
  • 7 years ago

    Pitterpatter, kudos to you for being willing to listen to folks who have a lot of practical experience behind them. It's hard sometimes when you have your own vision--and have already made a purchase--to step back and reconsider.

    When my small kitchen got a facelift, it was all so monochromatic, even for a neutrals person like me. I considered a whiskey-colored backsplash because I craved something warm. The people here said, no, just no, there is plenty out there that will be just right for you. I ended up with a cream-colored crackle and am so glad I listened to reason. I know a lot more now than I did then, and I'm very grateful to the people who so freely share their advice and wisdom.

  • 7 years ago

    Your kitchen is not plain and colourless. It has lots of elements that are well tied together.

    Lots of colours in your granite, rough texture in your fireplace, midtone hardwood floors with variegated browns, shiny glass, sparkly chandelier, marvelous sexy shapes in your table and chairs, intricate design in your hardware, the half-barrel hood, the wrought iron on the railing and the wood banister that ties in with the mantle and the island.

    This is by no means a plain or bland area. The area that you are tiling is on the back wall of the space which basically helps to serve as the backdrop for that area as well. At the same time that you are looking at the tile you will also see the island, the venthood, the hardware, the counter, the floor and the island pendants which also serve as a statement. I have to agree that it's important to quieten the backsplash a bit.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    2many: they are the same tiles in both of those pictures.

    Stacey: Here are a some more Taupes & creams

    I did call ProSource to see if they would accept a return and I am out of the 30days. The marble will be used in a bar or powder room will will be doing.

    Here are a few more pictures of the same three tiles. I will tell you that several of my samples where surprises. They did not love k like my monitor. These tiles are:

    Luna > Star Dust. > Silk

    (green /gray) > (Taupe /Brown). > (Tan/Taupe)

    It looks like I will be out and about locally picking up samples.

  • 7 years ago

    The fireclay tiles are perfect for this room. Now just to pick a colour and speaking of which = the "silk" looks a little pinky, at least on my monitor.

    Where you have them all on the island counter, can you show the one in the last row standing up, furthest to the right? and the one lying down closest to the edge, also furthest to the right.



  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL OPTIONS!!! Well done! The glazed thin brick has so much delicious texture and the glazes are stunning. I’ve seen luna and silk in real life and they are almost hypnotically beautiful. I don’t remember Stardust, but it looks like a good fit. Luna might give you the touch of color you’ve been looking for. I tend to prefer lighter options as darker ones can really suck the light out of a room, but you can’t go wrong with any of these.

    If you are considering their ceramic tiles, French Linen and Oyster Shell might be nice grays for you.

    Really well done. I hope you love your new choices even more than you original one.

  • 7 years ago

    I would try to narrow it down to 3-5 colors and then get more tiles of each of those colors, so you have a bigger sample area for each finalist.

  • 7 years ago

    Beautiful tiles from which to choose!! I am glad you decided to go in this direction.

    You have a beautiful kitchen and home!!! I love your fireplace. All of the colors are very warm and cozy!

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Blfenton: here are the two tiles you are curious about:

    Mercury (on the right):

    Ultra cream with black patina:

    Here is Foggy Morning with black patina:

    Again side by side the two with black patina:

    French linen as suggested by eam44:

    Do not have oyster shell. :(

    I wish these colors on the tiles were offered on the brick tiles, that have imperfections and a more rugged look and is rich in depth.

    I do not think you can order just a few tiles with out it costing too much to get a sample lay out. That makes choosing these Fireclay tiles hard.

  • 7 years ago

    Thanks. The top tile isn't too bad, but I agree with you about the crackle ones.

    I do like the fireclay tiles.

  • 7 years ago

    So far I am loving Luna, Ultra Cream with black patina, and Foggy Morning with black patina. You have great tiles to choose from!

  • 7 years ago

    Omgosh. So glad you posted this thread. I love the fireclay tile. So beautiful. This site is amazing. Can't wait to see which one you choose. I think I will end up using one of those as well. Hope you can find a place to use the marble you posted originally.

    this fireclay is wonderful.


  • 7 years ago

    I know the patinaed ones seem perfect, but I think you are absolutely right about the brick. I would order more samples of Luna.

    That said, are you still interested in 1.) a herringbone layout, and 2.) doing this yourself?

  • 7 years ago

    Also agree about the brick tile. I think they would be perfect for your space

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Here is Fireclay Luna Brick, both are the same tile sitting at two different counter locations. It feels "earthy" , it is not a perfect match, but it gives enough contrast for the white cabinets and is light enough to give the space brightness that I want. My concern is the variation between each brick.

    Fireclays web site's pictures are sometimes misleading. I attached Fireclay's image of Luna installed as a backsplash and it shows a lot of variation from one tile to the next and then the other photo they have looks more consistant in color, confusing. Plus their color looks totally different from my sample.

    Do you think it will be too busy for my space? That is a good idea to order several more samples of Luna. I do plan to do this myself. My bid came in at over 1,000 for a professional. I probably won't do a herringbone if I use this size of brick.


  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The fireplace is a unique focal point because it's a different material than the smooth white wood, glass chandeliers, and traditional furnishings you see everywhere else, so I would let it make that statement and not try to copy the rustic feel by bringing brick tile into your very traditional kitchen.

    Their crackle tile without the black patina is nice. I have a sample of Oyster Shell and it has a blue-green undertone. I have nine Fireclay samples and none of their photos are true to the samples.

  • 7 years ago

    The Luna sample you have is very different from the online images. Order your samples, and some samples of one other brick, and go from there.

  • 7 years ago

    Agree with mayflowers, that fireplace is and should remain the star. Your back splash should stay clean and simple with little texture, pattern, or color.
    Remember the saying too many clowns?

  • 7 years ago

    Wow, those Fireclay tiles are sooo beautiful with your granite! I have about 10-12 of the same samples from Fireclay and not ONE looked anything special in my kitchen. The lighting, textures, and counter colors have all the say in what shines and what doesn’t. Luckily, you are on the right path now! Can’t wait to see the final choice and results!