. what more do you need? Well, according to some members of the city council and some people who have complained in the press, we also need to prevent our "itinerant population" (students) from raising them and to address the supposed problem that they're going to be abandoned en masse without care, and that they're going to bug neighbors and lower property values. Just because their complaints are unrealistic doesn't mean we don't have to deal with them :( I'm just concerned about what we've seen from the council so far. Of the 7-member council: ------------- Correia I don't know. My sister lived in a small town in Illinois and her neighbors across the street had chickens and they were kind of friendly, but I don't really see it in Iowa City. I'm sorry O'Donnell No. Champion I don't know. (several talking) ... Lombardo Where do you stop? What regulations, I mean, in terms of just legislating how to keep them(several talking) Wright The fact that it's relatively common, I think there are plenty of models that could be used out there. Um ------------- Then, from one of our local papers... Iowa City Mayor Regenia Bailey who said her grandmother owned chickens said she was not interested in supporting such a move because supporting local business leads to a more dynamic economy, but she is interested in hearing what others have to say regarding the matter. We have a weak mayor system, so Mayor Bailey is basically just another vote on the city council. The other two members of the council haven't really said anything that we've been able to track down that indicates his views. We have Wright seeemingly in favor; Correia, Bailey, and O'Donnell seemingly opposed; and Wilburn, Champion, and Hayek unknown (Lombardo was the city manager). That's not a good starting point, and we don't get to "negotiate" with them (at best, we'll get to speak our peace in front of them the session before the vote). Then they'll either vote it up or down. So, in our position, what would you do? It might not hurt to have educational workshops at your County Ag Extension office Hey, that's a good idea. We should give the ag extension a call and see if they'd be interested in that. I think that'd go over better than just requiring that applicants read a pamphlet.

gardengal, where is it suggested that, "If the manure is fully composted, why in the world is it necessary to let it sit further for an additional 4-6 months." ? Dave stated that manure must be composted for 4 to 6 months before being applied to the garden, but I see nothng about that compost needing to be "aged" longer. I ma not sure that you need to compost manure that long as long as your properly compost that manure and when that compost is done it can then be applied to the garden. I have seen some here, as well as a few frequently quoted garden writers, state that compost needs to be "aged" before going into the garden, but I have frequently stated here that is nonsense. There are very good reasons to not apply fresh manures to your garden, and there have been many news stories about why that should not be done, but even the Ag Schools and the CDC do not state, emphatically, that manure cannot be put on the garden they simply recommend that fresh manure not be put on unless it has been aged a minimum of 12 months. Yes, some old web sites (prior to 2008) can be found that will still say that "fresh manure should not be put on your food garden sooner than 120 days to harvest" but these same places will have newer posting that state that 12 months is the minimum. Since the number of people that have been exposed to disease pathogens, and gotten sick enough to be reported to the CDC and get reported in the news, has been increasing exponentially in the last 25 years, common sense should tell us all that we should not apply fresh manure to our gardens. You can adopt the industry standard of risk/benefit and determine that your chance of getting ill from a disease pathogen manure is 1 in 100,000,000 and say that is acceptable, until you are that 1 person. If you have never had a disease from one of these pathogens well and good and I can tell you that you do not want one, and you certainly do not want to expose family members, unnecessarily, to them. Because few people make the link, or even get sick enough so they need to see a doctor, the CDC can estimate that there are 10 people getting sick from manure borne pathogens for every case that is reported to them and then gets in the news.

I have been working with horses since 1964. My horses range in ages of 2 years old, 5 years old, 15 years old, 20 years old and up to 25 years old. In the past 5 years, hay producers in my area have turned to using poultry litter on their hay field as fertilizer because of costs. The square bale hay looks green and great, but my horses just sniff it and walk away. They waste it. They won't eat it. Each year, I have to return the hay and buy hay that was not produced with poultry litter. Thank goodness, most hay producers are being honest when I ask if they used poultry litter in the production of their hay. Last year, when I took 100 bales home from a hay producer that I had bought from previously that season, my horses would not eat the hay. I called the hay producer. He confirmed that he had distributed poultry litter in the production of that hay. When he looked in his notes and realized that I had requested non-poultry litter fertilized hay from the start, he came to our place and removed the 100 bales of poultry litter fertilized hay and replaced it with hay that did NOT get produced with poultry litter. My horses immediately started eating the hay that did NOT have poultry litter used in the production of it. So, here is my question. Has anyone experienced this problem with their horses? If so, what did you do? This has happened to me with 4 separate hay producers. I cannot find anything on the internet that explains this problem. I understand that it is a fairly new process, but surely, someone is recognizing the problem besides me!!! I got a response: "Be careful feeding this hay to your horses. Chickens spread salmonella. I myself, would never feed my horses this type of hay." Should I be concerned??? I got another response: "Not at all uncommon. A lot of horses don't like hog manure fertilized hay either. Not new at all. A lot of farmers use manure from chickens and hogs when the price of commercial fertilizer get high. In years past it was much more common. Guess what, if that's all they have to eat for a few days, they get over it, and eat it just fine." My reply was: Have you had the experience with horses not eating their hay?...and you continued to only give them that hay AND they started eating it??? If so, what problems did you observe? Any health issues? From my experience, this behavior of not eating their hay is not natural. I have been feeding my groups of horses for 48 years. This issue with my horses not eating the hay given them has only occurred since the poultry litter has been used as fertilizer, which has been in the last 5 years. I understand the farmers' need to keep down costs, but for the end result to be that the product not be used (wasted), that seems to defeat the purpose of growing the hay. I wonder what problems have occurred that have not been registered by some agency....where would one report this anyway? It is just not natural for my horses to refuse hay. This is a BIG problem for me. My experience is that the hay producers really don't want to hear this. Yet, to be honest, they need to know this. Here was the response: "Yes, I've had experience with hay fertilized with chicken, hog, and cattle manure. Sometime they eat it without a problems and other times, a couple of days of it alone, and they eat it just fine. The smell is usually the problem. If they get hungry, they will eat. Chicken is very high in nitrogen and bad about burning if applied to heavy. It should be composted for awhile before applying. The problems associated with e coli, etc, are usually not there if the application doesn't burn up the hay crop. Seldom do they apply any of these close to harvest time, which gives mother nature plenty of time to dispose of e coli, etc. Sun and rain, will do an excellent job of decomposing. It was used a lot around here, more so, a few years back, and never heard of any problems feeding the hay to horses. When the farmers used horses for tilling it was used extensively for horse hay." Does anyone have any advice on Hay fertilized with poultry manure and the possiblitity of Salmonella risk??? Thanks

After hitting "Preview", I realized this post is LONG! Before you guys read enough to judge my intelligence and stop, I would like to thank all those that offered advice on this issue. Even if I don't quite show it, please don't think I don't value the experience I see here. In researching 2-4D, I found that it had a halflife of 10 days. I picked up the manure on Jan 31. Some of it was aged, some, not so much. Although the age is irrelevant as the manure may have become exposed to the herbicide after being... well, abandoned by the horse. Either way, whatever the concentration, it should have been at half strength on Feb 10, quarter strength on Feb 20, 1/8 strength on Mar 2, and 1/16 on Mar 12. Plants were planted on March 6. In looking at the docs provided by Jean, my plants appear to be much worse than the worst case scenario provided by the studies they did. However, with that said, it may not be 2-4D either, but something else that is more persistent. Or, there is the possibility that my neighbor sprayed something that I'm not aware of, possibly in his front yard (these are on the end of the bed closest to the front of the house...). Still, I would think that if this were drift, it would have affected more than just these four plants and the difference between plants four and 5 wouldn't be so evident. Either way, if it was the manure, and I believe we all agree that it is, I may still be OK. I don't care about these plants. There is nothing I can do about them anyway. Even if I were to pull them, I would have to put something else in their place and unless I dig out that whole end of the yard, I'd be putting new plants in the same position as the ones I'd be pulling. Besides, I'm in Texas. It's too late to be setting out. I've never put anything out this late and had it produce anything. The plants are going to have to die, grow out of it, or sit there and pout in a permanent prepubescent state. I had plants that had this issue last year on the other end of the same bed. They grew out of it just fine and ended up producing as well as anything else in my garden (it was not a good year). In the mean time, I'll keep soaking these plants to see if I can dilute down whatever is in the soil to levels were they are not longer an issue. If the plants die, the plants die. I have about 21 more. Like I said, these are experimentals anyway. Finally, I agree that this looks exactly like herbicide damage, and if you guys have not heard of anything other than herbicide that could cause this problem from horse manure, then we'll agree that this is herbicide damage. The main thing I was worried about was my compost pile. I used half the manure I retrieved that day on the spots these plants are now mixed the other half into my compost pile. The compost is about a year's worth and is finally finished. I used all I could this year and thought some manure and leaves now and coffee grounds through the year might keep it young and vibrant to be used for next year. While I'm sure it will be safe when next year's plants hit it in Feb-March of next year, I'll be sure to add some more materials to dilute any herbicide residuals that may persist. I was very worried that I was going to lose my compost pile (how sad is that?) The plants took 3 months to grow. I work on my compost piles year round!