Salmonella risk from fresh chicken manure?
paulns
15 years ago
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digdirt2
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agolorna-organic
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chicken manure from commercial farm
Comments (20)Personally I would be more concerned about pathogens in the manure itself (e coli, salmonella etc.) than about the residual antibiotics creating superbugs in my garden. Just my opinion. So I would want to have a good hot pile and plenty of curing time. If you can achieve that you should be OK. I do think the antibiotics are an important issue that needs to be dealt with on a larger scale. kimmsr used the phrase 'genetically engineered' to describe resistant pathogens, but this is actually a selection process (albeit an unnatural one) rather than the act of directly monkeying with genes. I only mention this because gonebananas followed up on it. We have enough to discuss with the original question without bringing in other controversies to further muddy (manure) the waters. :-] jolj suggested using the manure and then testing it. For what? would be my question. Nutritional value? OK, but if it's a good mix of ingredients and a well managed pile it will be very nutritious. Antibiotics? Pathogens? Big $$$$ for questionable gain....See Morerisks of using horse manure that is not composted thoroughly
Comments (49)Karen, why use raw manure, you ask? Because the point of using the manure directly is for the nitrogen. The nitrogen that is lost in composting. In fact, many of us use manure in compost because we know it will lose it's nitrogen as it's used to activate that pile. If applied directly to a field and tilled in, more of the nitrogen sticks around and is available when the plant needs it. The bacteria that eat it up in the pile aren't nearly so prevalent in the soil. You can't have the production we have today organically because production today is only possible because we have enough synthesized nitrogen. Farms need as much nitrogen as possible if they don't go synthetic because it doesn't stick around for long in the ground. Especially when you till that ground for planting, which is one of the many reasons for no-till farming. If only composted manure was used, the farms would go out of business thanks to reduced yields. Otherwise, don't you think the USDA would prohibit the use of raw manure altogether? It's necessary. It's that simple. Man has overcome that in only one way, with chemicals. Chemicals not used by those who go the "organic" route. Kimm, what is it with you and changing words but putting them in quotes as if they aren't your own words? (I know it seems like a matter of semantics to some of you, but factory farming is a very intensive method that involves animal cruelty and the overuse of antibiotics, which makes animal feces toxic and sometimes full of mutated bacteria. Not the same as a family farm or an industrialized organic farm.) I said industrialized farming and the organic farm you mention is likely the same as the one that Karen mentioned concerning the huge surprise E-coli outbreak with an organic spinach producer. THAT IS AN INDUSTRIALIZED FARM! Again, you try to twist things. Industrialized doesn't mean non-organic and you know it. This website is supposed to be about helping people. Not misleading them so you look like you know what you are talking about. So stop doing so. Besides, just because something is recalled doesn't mean it was because they used manure and I know you know that, too. Show me which one determined that listeria was from the manure conclusively. I mean, I can actually reference sources. Can you? In fact, all of those that involve listeria that I have found specifically make a point to mention it could be from manure OR soil. Doesn't exactly prove much, now does it? The only ones that were proven to be from manures in soil were the E-coli outbreaks. The salmonella was from manure being sprayed directly on the plants. That has nothing to do with this discussion. The thread is about putting manure on your garden in fall. Not directly spraying your plants with a water-manure mix. Okay. I'll stop on this thread. There are real resources out there. I referenced some. Go enjoy gardening and refuse to live in fear unless the facts (and I mean all of them)......See MoreMushroom compost, kraal manure or chicken manure?
Comments (14)Dear Trish! Ouch!!!! I can just see the whole event happening in front of my eyes! Yes, kids can get into the the most interesting situations at times. This little lady also broke her ankle on a swing at school about seven months ago, just a few days before her fourth birthday. So it was the whole process of rushing to hospital and dropping her three-month old baby sister and my eldest off at someone's house along the way while at the same time trying to comfort her and keep all calm. At that time my husband was gone for work so it was quite a challenge. After the whole stint in hospital, we had to carry her around for the whole time while she was recovering as she could not mobilize with crutches (too young ). In the end, she got so frustrated and she started to bum-shuffle, which was hilarious. :-) I found her one day trying to water my pots outside while still shuffling on her hands and buttocks, dragging the hose behind her :-) :-) :-) At least it is a bit easier this time around (that is, after surgery and the visits to the wound care nurse to clean the finger), and I know she is getting better the moment she starts watering the garden, which she has :-). She has a great affinity for soil and dirt and I must just try to keep her away in order to keep the finger clean until it has healed appropriately. Easier said than done :-) Moses and Lisa, I had a good laugh about your initial confusion about the word "kraal" My apologies! One tends to forget that local vernacular is not always known internationally. But well done on your investigations! Lisa, If I remember correctly you also have some Dutch heritage? I initially thought "kraal" might have had its origins in Dutch (where Afrikaans originated) but after reading your posts it struck me that the word might have come from the Koisan or other indigenous African languages - it indeed refers to an enclosure for cattle although, in centuries past, I think it was also used to refer to an area where groups of dwellings of particular tribes were constructed in a circular pattern which were then closed off with thorny branches etc. in order to keep wild animals out. We have so many languages over here and we all eventually "borrow" words from each other so "kraal" is an accepted English word here as it is in Afrikaans (our home language) and several other languages as well :-). One tends to forget that it is not necessarily known internationally. Moses, I think our mushroom compost might be similar to yours although I believe (I stand to be corrected) that we use coir peat instead of peat moss, which is not such a sustainable resource over here. We also have mushroom growers, possibly in greenhouses? They are readily available in our supermarkets although prices can be slightly more expensive at times. I used peat moss for my roses the previous time I amended some garden beds but was not satisfied with the soil quality a year later, that's why I considered the "kraal manure" Thanks to all of you I think I might get the recipe better this time. I really can't wait to get all my roses in the ground. The previous time was a bit easier as I had to start from scratch so I could design everything as I wanted. This time we have moved into a much bigger but older house with a large established garden (although not a single rose apart from 5 iceberg tree roses (we call them standard roses) at the gate. There are many trees providing lots of shade and it is a bit more daunting to think what must be moved / removed/ altered as there is already a basic plan and I don't want to simply redo the whole place right now. :-)...See MoreTo treat Downy Mldew-is chicken manure be effective as horse manure?
Comments (22)I bought 3 kinds on Amazon and 1 from Armstrong Nursery. My two favorites from Amazon were MycoBloom and MycoBliss. MycoBloom (2lbs, ~3.5 cups or 56 Tablespoons and should use 1-3 T per plant) includes fungal species isolated by researchers at Indiana University and seller answers question of which species in their mix and it’s these 7: Claroideoglomus claroideum (formerly known as Glomus claroideum), Funneliformus mosseae (formerly known as Glomus mosseae), Cetraspora pellucida, Claroideoglomus lamellosum, Acaulospora spinosa, Racocetra fulgida and Entrophospora infrequens. MycoBliss (1lb, treats 100 plants) is the other I liked and it includes 4 different species of Rhizophagus and 1 Claroideoglomus etunicatum. Notice that none of the species in these two products, MycoBloom and MycoBliss, are the same so I used both to get a total of 11 species. I like these two since they come with carrier clay powder so you can sprinkle a spoonful, which is easy to manage than mixing a concentrated powder with water, at least for me. The 3rd brand, Wildroot Organic Mycorrhizal Fungi, came as a 1 oz concentrated packet to mix into 50 gallons of water and pour on plants. However, 1/50th of an ounce, to make one gallon, is really just a pinch. I haven’t tried it yet since sprinkling the others directly onto/in soil seemed easier. But Wildroot Organic has more microbial diversity (ie. more species) and includes fungi and bacteria and seems like a high quality product. It includes 100,000 Propagules/lb Glomus Intraradices, G. G. mosseae, G. aggregatum, G. etunicatum, G. clarum, G. deserticola G. monosporum, Paraglomus brasilianum and Gigaspora margarita. 120 million propagules/lb Rhizopogon villosulus, R. lutcolus, R. amylopogon, R. fulvigleba Pisolithus tinctorius Scleroderma cepa and S. citrinum. 10 billion CFU/lb Bacillus subtilis, B. licheniformis, B. pumilus, B. amyloliquefaciens, and B. megaterium and B. thuringiensis. 500 million/lb. Trichoderma harzianum and Trichoderma koningii. Finally, I grabbed a bag of organic rose food at Armstrong Nursery that also includes mycorrhizae that I will use later in the season. All these products say not to use at the same time as synthetic fertilizers, especially phosphorus. Once microbes are established I am sure dilute synthetic fertilizers are fine but the microbes will be more delicate until they are established in the root zone. Also store in a cool dry place and use within a year, or so. As time goes on their freshness will be less since these are dormant, yet living, organisms....See Morefarkee
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