Who uses a "few cups of flour" to make gravy?

Sorry for baiting the troll ... It's been a slow morning, LOL

I do have a couple of recipes that call for browning the flour dry in a skillet or in the oven before making a slurry to thicken gravies and/or sauces. Like Angela, though, I've never used a "few cups" of flour, it's more like a quarter cup. I've never gotten enough drippings/juice from a turkey to make gravy that needs a "few cups".

Annie

He's been a member since 2014, why the troll comment?

Browned flour loses a lot of it's thickening properties....changes the starch in it.
so maybe that's why he said something about several cups.
Not sure what "risk" is involved making gravy the usual way, mixing flour with the fat to make a roux and slowly add the liquid.
If you use browned flour you would have to add about twice as much as you have fat to get the gravy to thicken. Browned flour gives a nice nutty flavor to a gravy or cajun dish, but if you want to thicken gravy, be sure of your measurements

Several cups of browned flour, most for future use.

Last night's gravy seemed to have worked very well. In short: Strain the juices, let separate, cold mix the oils with browned flour then add liquid. Stove cook to blend.

Concerning the risk, I have ruined many a good gravy by over browning the flour in very hot oils. This way, it never gets above 200d or so.

I will run a test for the thickening quality for browned VS raw. Since the raw flour is browned when boiled in the oil, is there a difference in thickening between browning doing it then or ahead of time?

Today I made a cake. In the past, when I greased and floured the pan, I usually had yucky tasting flour on the bottom of the cake. Now the browned flour eliminates that problem both visually and by flavor.

Yes the thickening power of the flour in a roux, like that used to make gumbo is much much less than it would be if the flour were cooked in a liquid.
Try using cocoa on the bottom of a cake pan, or cookie or graham cracker crumbs....or try shaking the flour out of the greased pan before you add the batter.
I never have "yucky tasting flour" on the bottom of my cakes....I shake the excess out of the pan.
And i have never EVER ruined a gravy by over browning the flour in the "oils"....do you mean meat fats?....and I'll bet i have made gravy 4 or 5 as many times more than you have....experience comes with age.

It's good that you are re-thinking things and experimenting and developing as cook, but some basic lessons in sauce making and the properties of various thickening products would be a good thing for you.

"Yes the thickening power of the flour in a roux, like that used to make gumbo is much much less than it would be if the flour were cooked in a liquid."

So browning the flour dry in a pan VS browning the flour in a pan using hot oils is essentially the same for thickening, yes?

"Try using cocoa on the bottom of a cake pan, or cookie or graham cracker crumbs....or try shaking the flour out of the greased pan before you add the batter."

Cookie or graham cracker crumbs instead, good idea. Cocoa too!

"I never have "yucky tasting flour" on the bottom of my cakes....I shake the excess out of the pan."

It happens once in a while, I cannot explain it. I tap the flour around then tap the pan into the sink to remove as much as I can before adding the batter.

"And i have never EVER ruined a gravy by over browning the flour in the "oils"....do you mean meat fats?....and I'll bet i have made gravy 4 or 5 as many times more than you have....experience comes with age."

I have been making gravies for over 40 years. Once in a while, I kill the gravy burning it through negligence and then have no drippings to use. Browning the flour ahead of time seems to prevent that. It also frees up time during a very busy thanksgiving preparation. I can even have the kids mix up the cold slurry. I am now going to keep about 8 cups of browned flour right next to the raw stuff. If nothing else it looks attractive in an apothecary jar.

I have also heard from other cooks "that just can't get gravy right" so they gave up. I have turned a few cooks back to gravies with this different technique.

"It's good that you are re-thinking things and experimenting and developing as cook, but some basic lessons in sauce making and the properties of various thickening products would be a good thing for you."

Check out "How Baking Works" I forget who wrote it and I cannot seem to find it right now. It was here before the tag sale.... If you look for it, get the earlier edition. It is set up like a text book with chapter questions and is about 5" x 8" and not the larger one.

OK, so you mix the fat and flour into a paste and then drop that into your hot liquid? My daughter does that to make gravy, AnnT tells me it's actually called " beurre manié". It does work well, no matter what it's called.

Annie

beurre manié works with softened butter, I am using liquid fats. It is probably the same thing but I use browned flour instead of raw. I guess with the butter method, you have to cook the roux to brown the flour. In this, you still have to contend with the water in the butter which makes the flour bloom prematurely.

My method mixes the browned flour into a slurry with the oil where they do not interact; the flour is not expanding as it would with water. This does not have to be heated to make it work and therefore you do not take the risk of burning and ruining the drippings.

After the flour and oils are well mixed and you easily work out all the lumps of flour, then add the stock/broth. At this point, a low heat will help thickening the gravy.

Having extra browned flour allows you to add more if you want. When the flour is browned with the oils then adding raw flour also adds an uncooked flour flavor.

This is a lot easier to demonstrate rather then describe in words.

Gary Sutcliff, I think most things are harder to describe than they are to demonstrate!

Annie

I must make gravy diiferent than you all. I bring all the drippings to a rapid boil & slowly wisk in cold water mixed with a couple tbs of flour. Thickens for me everytime & it's delicious!

I agree and that is the classical way I have always done it. Now that I am using browned flour, I do not have to risk losing it all to burning when one cooks at high temperature in the oils. Burning it all has not happened to you? It will....

Of course, the perfect cooks here never burn anything..... (:

My gravies are rich and thick but I find that that is dependent on the meat source and quality.

"I must make gravy different than you all. I bring all the drippings to a
rapid boil & slowly wisk in cold water mixed with a couple tbs of
flour."

Mixing the flour and water can work and not generate blobs of dry flour coated with water if you mix it as if you are making pasta. Make a volcano cone with the flour and place the water in the center while mixing onl;y in the center. I have heard that if you place flour and water in one of those vacuum sealing things, the flour will easily mix with the water without the bloblification.

How do you cook the raw taste out of the flour? Mix it with water, it will bloom and would it not stay around 212 degrees? I find that flour cooks at around 300d or so.

You might brown the flour in the oven first and then do it the way you suggest. It is an interesting thought though.