I have followed your plans a bit, and have read through quickly, but have a couple problems with the newest plan. I feel strongly about these things on your behalf, so I hope I don't come off as rude or only negative, because I know you've worked and come a long way here. I really am only trying to help you avoid regrets. 1) The biggest problem is that the refrigerator is completely out of the work area, and through the cleanup zone from the stove and prep areas. The stove, prep sink/prep work, and fridge should form the age-old work triangle. The idea of zones is to share things like the fridge, but not cross through and create traffic problems between workers and things like open dw doors. I've said it before, I think the cook takes priority in having access to the fridge, because he/she often needs something QUICKly, and doesn't have time to traipse through the kitchen and around everyone and everything to add something to what's cooking on the stove. 2) The island size seems, sorry to be blunt, but ridiculous to me. Based on the aisle measurements, it seems to be about 8 ft by 9 ft. This is almost the size of some rooms in our house! How will you clean it? What will you use as a countertop? I love expansive islands, but I am afraid this one will be so big, and not look nice, as Laurameh expressed above. I prefer one-level islands, though, and don't think varying heights would solve the problem here. 3) I hope you're not planning to hem in your cooktop with structures that divide the counter? There are ways to achieve the hearth appearance without the towers shown in magazines that come down to the counter and all the way to the front edge. They would block movement, reduce flexibility in your work area, and block the light from the windows. Comments to other discussions that have gone on before: Aisles: I have 4 ft aisles behind my sink and baking areas, but only 3 ft aisle between rangetop and island. It is as Bmore explained...Dishwashers, fridges, and oven doors take room and people need to get safely around them...Maybe even work on the opposite counter. But in the cooking area, I want to prep, turn to the stove, turn back to retrieve prepped items, etc. I don't want to run back and forth, just turn. Also, the tighter aisle, hopefully, discourages traffic from going through and routes them to the wider ones. As a matter of fact, I've shown a photo of our 36" aisle before, because it's much roomier than I expected, and 2 cooks, or cooks and our 2 dogs fit there pretty well! :-) 30" counter between 2 tall elements: I think you've moved past that, but just in case...I could agree with Bmore's and Lisa's comments about the hazard of that becoming a junk area only and not having room to work, in some cases. However, if the area has a specific purpose, it can work great. We have a 30" counter between a wall and a fridge. It is our 'breakfast/snack center.' We have our toaster oven there and keep things like cereals, crackers, chips, and bread in the cabinets there. I could also see such a spot as a place for the coffee maker and supplies, etc. If it has a purpose, a limited area like that can serve you well.

I saw this thread when searching for advice on L-shaped kitchen layouts and just had to post as my kitchen is pretty much identical to the example posted by fireberd350 at 21:10. We're embarking on a remodel now and while I think the layout in general isn't bad, to me it does seem like the fridge would make more sense over on the other wall by the dishwasher, as suggested by blfenton. It is so true that in the year that we have been living in this kitchen, the no man's land of the counter over by the dishwasher has always been junked up since it's not a very functional area. We should be able to carve out some room for a pantry beside the fridge too. Good luck fireberd350 and I'd be interested to see how your layout develops!

Refrigerator...keep in mind some things. First, to open fully, the doors of your refrigerator must stick out past the surrounding walls/cabinets/counters. This means you can only recess your refrigerator so the carcass/box is even with adjacent walls/cabinets/counters on the hinge side(s). In this case, it's a counter...25.5". The depth of your refrigerator is approx 31". Unfortunately, KA doesn't give all the necessary dimensions, in this case, the depth of the carcass/box. You need this to know how deep you can recess it. Remember, you also need room behind the refrigerator for air clearance (1/2"), water lines for ice maker & water dispenser (probably an inch or two), plug, and, if used, the anti-tip device. The 31" does not include these items. (FYI...the doors on my refrigerator stick out 4" from the carcass/box. This does not include the handles.) If we assume your refrigerator is similar, then its carcass/box is probably 27" deep (31" - 4"). Add another inch for the water lines and you can probably only recess it into the wall 3" or so. (27" deep carcass + 1" = 28"; 28" - 25.5" = 2.5"; you can go up to another half-inch or so if the door hinges allow it...it depends on the hinges.) The handles extend out another 2.5". So, this means approx 6" of your refrigerator will extend out past the counters. This brings us to the second point...your aisle. According to your layout, the aisle b/w the counter and the island is 40". However, in front of the refrigerator, the aisle is only 34" (40" - 6")...rather narrow. That's bordering on too narrow to get the refrigerator in/out without removing the doors...and maybe still too narrow even then. It will also create a "pinch point" when the refrigerator is open...a minor annoyance in this case, I think, b/c it's not a path through the kitchen and a refrigerator isn't usually open for very long (and others could always go around the island.) The concern is the ability to move the refrigerator for cleaning, repairs, or replacement w/o damaging the refrigerator or your cabinets & counters. The cabinet above the fridge is usually installed so the front of the cabinet box is flush with the refrigerator's carcass/box. You might be able to install it so the cabinet + doors are flush with the refrigerator doors, but you run the risk of hitting your head on the cabinet since you're tall. I recommend sticking with the former. Dishwasher + Corner Sink...You really need more space b/w the sink and the DW. If you look at the pic with the "Sink specs from Thomasville", note that it recommends a base cabinet at least 15" wide b/w the corner sink base and the DW. You only have 9"...you really need at least 15"; 18" would be better. As to a corner sink, there are pros & cons. It's a great way to handle a corner and the less-than-optimum storage under a sink base. You combine the sink base and corner storage into one so you only have one place with inefficient storage. However, unless you have a large corner sink base (48" or more), only one person can use the sink at one time. OTOH, there's plenty of space behind the sink for your faucet, soap dispenser, etc. You also don't have to worry about how deep (front-to-back) the sink is b/c there should be plenty of room for everything. But, you do have to be careful how far back the sink is installed, have them install it as far forward as possible and don't let them put any more than a 3" piece of stone b/w the sink cutout and the edge of the counter. This is to prevent the need to lean too far forward to use the sink. (The taller you are, the more important this is.) Prep Zone...Your Prep Zone will most likely end up on the perimeter b/w the corner sink and the range. That's where your water source is as well as it's close to the range. While 39" is normally enough room for prepping with a "straight line", when you factor in a corner sink and the fact that some of the floor space in your Prep Zone will overlap with the corner sink's floor space, you may not really have enough. I would like to see you increase that 21" cabinet to 30" (and decrease the one on the other end by those 9" to 27"). It will make a big difference in functionality. I don't recommend putting the DW b/w the sink and range...you really don't want to work over/in front of an open DW if someone is loading/unloading it or a running DW venting heat & steam on you! (If you're very, very disciplined about no one ever cleaning up while someone is prepping or cooking or there's never more than one person in the kitchen at a time, then a DW might be OK, but it's not ideal.) Besides, you should try for as little overlap of Zones as possible. Seating at the island...The National Kitchen & Bath Assoc (NKBA) recommends the overhang of counter-height seating be a minimum of 15". You have 12". I suspect you've put in 12" so you can fit an island. However, you should be aware that even if you skimp on overhang, people sitting at the island will take up the same amount of floor/aisle space...they'll just have to either sit farther away from the counter's edge or have to lean farther forward...neither of which is particularly comfortable for any length of time. Some people here swear that 9" or 12" is enough, but I suspect they have very short legs. You, OTOH, have stated you are tall (6'1")...so I doubt very much you have short legs. Our family ranges in height from 5'10" (me) to 6'6" and still growing (my DS). We have a 15" overhang and while my DD and I think it's OK, my DH & DS wish it was a few inches deeper (neither of them sit at the counter very often b/c of this). Honestly, I would have rather had 18" as well, but 15" works OK for me. One comment: You say everyone tells you they love an island even in a small kitchen. I wonder if they had a better designed kitchen if they would change their tune. Sometimes we don't know any better and think something is the best we can do. In the case of a kitchen, once you work in a well-designed kitchen, you're spoiled! What others think is fine, you know really isn't. People can adapt to anything...even a poor layout...and if they don't know any better they don't know how good it could be! Aisles...I'm concerned about the aisle b/w the back of the island and the porch door. At most, you have a 42.5" aisle (34" + 8.5"). It may actually be narrower when you start counting door trim, door knob, etc. When the door is open, you may have an issue with chair/door conflict (even an empty chair). Counter height...You were wondering about counter height. Have you calculated your "ideal" work height? It's not just a matter of height...upper arm length comes into play as well. To calculate your "ideal" work height (it takes two people): Stand up straight with your feet slightly apart and arms straight down at your sides. Now, bend your elbow 90 degrees. Keep your arm against your body. Have the second person measure the distance between your elbow and the floor. Subract 6" from the measurement. This is your "ideal" work height. Note that work height can be modified by raising the height of the cabinets, installing them on a platform, increasing the thickness of the counter, or by using large, thick cutting boards placed on top of a standard-height work surface (36" off the finished floor). Crown Molding...Most ceilings are not perfect and the floor-to-ceiling height can vary throughout the kitchen. To accommodate this and to make the differences "invisible", KDs usually either place a significant gap b/w the ceiling and top of the crown molding or use a 2 or 3 piece crown that includes a "filler" piece that is adjusted to accommodate the ceiling height discrepancies. The latter is, IMHO, better than the former. However, to do this successfully, the space for the crown does have to be tall enough so differences in filler piece heights are not noticeable. The shorter the filler piece, the more noticeable differences in height are. In our case, we have 6" of crown. We have a 3-piece crown molding with the filler (Stock-S) in the middle. The top and bottom pieces remain the same throughout the kitchen, it's only the filler piece that changes height. (We have approx a 1" height difference b/w the "tallest" and "shortest" floor-to-ceiling height in the kitchen.) Here's the design of our crown molding: Rev-A-Shelf Trash Pullout...I'm sure it will be less expensive to install it yourself after-market. Cabinet companies are notorious for marking up cabinet inserts tremendously. Since cost is a factor, I recommend ordering the cabinet you intend to use for your trash pullout as a full-height cabinet (i.e., no top drawer) with the door unattached. You can then purchase the pullout elsewhere (search the web, you can find it for much less than it is on the Rev-A-Shelf site) and install it yourself. In the end, this is your kitchen, so you have control over what you end up with. Please, really think about all the things I've mentioned b/f you decide on a final design. You will then be making an informed decision and whatever you decide you will know the pros & cons and know the compromises you have to make. Good luck!

When my remodel is done, my DW will be at the end of a run, next to the wall. It will probably add a minute, maybe two, to the unload time as all but the daily dishes/cutlery/glassware will be a tad farther of a walk to put away. But I don't care as the advantages will totally outweigh the disadvantages. I disagree with your KD. Strongly. I currently have my DW between my sink and range and it is the most hated thing in my kitchen. Everybody hates it, not just me. And when I say everybody, I mean my parents (who owned this house before me), my sister and her entire family, and my entire family. Plus all our kid's spouses. That's 14 people who have all voiced hatred for the DW placement. When my niece's husband, who was a chef before he became an engineer, heard we were remodeling the kitchen actually called me up to remind me to move that damn DW. And he's only cooked in it a few times. I remember he commented that it's poor placement from both a chef's and engineer's perspective (for whatever that's worth, lol). That is the only time he's actually ever called me. At the time, I didn't know where else to put it but the good folks here guided me to the new location. In fact, if the DW placement was good to begin with, I would probably have just redecorated my kitchen instead of remodeling. Of course, I'm getting other good things out of the remodel (like a prep sink) but I'm pretty frugal and would have probably saved the expense of it all if the DW placement hadn't been so annoying. If you use the sink on the window wall for prepping most often because you're facing the fabulous view (and who wouldn't?), the DW will NOT be able to be left open for immediate loading. You will need to keep the door closed most of the time and pop it open to load. If you're prepping and someone is loading/unloading or even just popping it open quickly to pop something in, it often coincides with the moment I need to get some water for my prepping. If you had a much longer counter between sink and cooktop, it might make some sense. But you don't. It will be crowded. And note that I have 54" between sink and range so I have more space to move over when that DW door is open. You have only 39". 36" is the MINIMUM recommended by the NKBA. You really can't afford to lose work space there if you want to use it for prepping. Of course, you will have the option of moving over to the other sink to do that but then that also adds extra unnecessary steps. And if you are prepping and have to move over for someone to do stuff with the DW, you might as well move all your prep work there because it also cuts into the available counter space unless you don't mind leaning instead of standing in front of what you're prepping. I don't understand the view argument. If you use your DW properly, as DW manufacturer's recommend, you'll be spending little time at the sink as you should scrape, not rinse, before loading. Washing fruit and veg doesn't take long. I wish I could remember the statistics exactly but studies have shown that prep time is something like 70% of the time spent in the kitchen with the remainder divided between cooking (like when you're standing at the stove, not counting unattended oven time) and cleaning up. So the majority of your time will be in the prep area, not in front of the sink or at the DW. For that short period of time, you won't miss the view. Ha! Can you tell I feel strongly about this? It's your kitchen. I would never do it in my kitchen. I hope you won't regret your decision.