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Flooring Other Design Dilemma

Self Installing solid hickory 4" floors- glue or nail?

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

Hi, I hope I can find the answer for this here because this is the first time the internet has failed me!

We are installing 1200 sq ft of 4" prefinished hickory solid 3/4in hardwood (Mullican). It will be going on the first level of our home, which is above grade. We currently have tile floors over a plywood subfloor. The tile and backerboard will be demoed tomorrow.

We contacted the manufacturer and they recommended gluing and nailing the floor, using a liquid nails type glue in a serpentine pattern on the boards. If we glue down the floor am I correct in assuming we can't use a vapor barrier?

If we can't use a vapor barrier, will that cause more issues/movement in the floor?

Would it be a bad idea to just nail the floor?

I'm not sure if they recommended this because its a 4" board or because its hickory, but its a little frustrating because on the product page on the manufacturer's website it says nail. Nothing about glue.

http://www.mullicanflooring.com/index.php/our-flooring/floor-details?sea...

Thank you for any insight/expertise you can offer!

Nicole

Featured Answer

User

6 years ago

Glue and nail. Standard polyurethane flooring glue troweled on just like you would a slab is better than a zillion caulking tubes.

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Comments (9)

PRO
G & S Floor Service
6 years ago
Check with the mfg for what type of moisture barrier they recommend. It's probably a urethane coating type that can be rolled on.

As Sophie mentioned, a nail assist: full trowel glue is better and easier. You will use less nails/staples.

For glue assist, you must apply a serpentine bead pattern on the back of each board, which is tedious. Cannot apply strips of beads on the floor, you will have voids under the floor boards, which can result in squeaks or sponginess.
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And just to be helpful (probably not...but here we go), a 5" wide hardwood needs "glue assist" with a nail in place install. So there must be some gluing going on. The extra cost of the sound reducing membrane isn't what is driving the cost up. It is the two layers of glue (yes the acoustic underlay must be glued and then the hardwood glued over top = double stick) and the extra labor to do everything "twice". Twice the labour, twice the glue = twice the budget. A glue down hardwood is the most expensive form of hardwood install we have. Nailing is the cheapest. A floating method is between the two. A glue assist for a wide plank (ahem...5" ranks as wide plank = needs glue assist) is more expensive than a float...but not as expensive as a full spread glue down install. Check to ensure the quote for the nail down includes the glue assist. If it doesn't, then they could be missing a step. The 1/4" cork underlay (from iCork Floor) = $0.66/sf. Some shipping costs (maybe $0.45/sf) brings it to about $1.10/sf for the cork. The other $5/sf is the glue (assume $1/sf per layer = $2/sf) and the extra labor to do all this gluing. The material only adds $3/sf. The labor is the other $3/sf. $3+$3 = $6/sf for this install. If you MUST HAVE acoustic insulation + solid hardwood, then you must have the extra $6/sf. There is a possible solution: floating hardwood. Yep. Float the hardwood (very few solid hardwoods are allowed to float...so you need to look at engineered for this) and you FLOAT the cork underlay. No glue = reduce the material costs by $2/sf. Since floating a hardwood is just SLIGHTLY cheaper than a "nail + glue assist" install, the cost of labor for the floor itself won't change. Switch to an engineered hardwood that can float and then add the 6mm cork underlay. It will add $1 - $2/sf to your current quote. My calculations indicate you have 2500sf of flooring. The cork underlay will only add $2500 to your material costs. Compare that to $15K for the double stick total. The solution = floating engineered hardwood. You can have your cake and eat it to.
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PRO
Mysha's Flooring Company
6 years ago
Hi

Being only 4 inch wide you can only nail it down, try and maintain the indoor humidity between 35-60% and keep a constant temperature also bring in the wood and leave it acclimate to the indor temperature and humidity for about 5 days opening up the ends of the box. I do this for 20 years never used glue years for any wood up to 4 inch wide, anything over that nail and glue.
PRO
Johnson Flooring Co Inc
6 years ago
When doing 5" plank or wider I like to nail and glue. 4" is optional for me but if the manufacturer recommends it, you have a quandary. Might you know someone with a quality moisture meter to test the wood and existing subfloor. If they're within 2% to 3% you probably don't need a barrier. Prefinished wood is hard to acclimate since moisture won't enter through the top surface. It would be wise to store the wood in a conditioned space that matches the interior of your home and preferably remove all of the wood from the cartons. Again, a moisture meter will tell you when it's ready to install.
SJ McCarthy
6 years ago
OK...let me get this straight. You have a plywood subfloor. That means there should be no NEED for a vapour barrier. The vapour barrier will be BELOW the plywood (somewhere in the basement or somewhere in the crawl space). If there isn't one, then there can be issues. If you are over a crawl space, you can do yourself a favour by looking to see what type of barrier is there.

Vapour barriers are not allowed to be used over top of plywood sheathing. It creates more problems than it solves. The best you can hope for is a moisture retardant membrane (allows some moisture to move through slowly).

With hickory - which is a hardwood that likes to move...A LOT - in a 4" wide plank, you would do VERY WELL with a glue-assist method. Technically a "wide plank" is anything 5" or WIDER. But hickory is such a dynamic wood that it can be ranked as "wide plank" in the 4" width. This is the fun of working with hickory. It takes MORE EFFORT to keep it happy. And happy starts when it is acclimating.

And keeping it happy once it is installed means keeping the humidity in a tight range. You do not want SWINGS. You want to stick to a 10% range (ie. 35% - 45%; or 45% - 55%) throughout the lifetime of this floor.

Hickory is beautiful. It is a diva. And like all Divas it takes a bit more care and attention to details.
PRO
Johnson Flooring Co Inc
6 years ago
"You have a plywood subfloor. That means there should be no NEED for a vapour barrier."

This isn't necessarily correct. Maybe in a perfect world, but not in the real world.
PRO
G & S Floor Service
6 years ago
Sorry I keep using the wrong terminology. Vapor retarder not barrier, everything above grade use a retarder.
Nicole Weiler
Original Author
6 years ago
Just to update we are a little over halfway done. After talking to a few installers we decided to nail most of it and face nail and glue the ones we couldn't nail. Basically it came down to the what if- what would happen if we ever had to get the floor up. we didn't want to face that.
kristinmulhern
6 years ago
The floors are beautiful! Is that the wire brushed hickory champagne?

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