Why do you think ewwmayo's lights are not supplemental? Distance from plants does not make it supplemental or not.

If plants need lots of light, it needs to be closer to them. Most succulents need lots of light. Just as when putting plants outside, into direct sunlight, they need to be acclimatized. Starting with lights further away, and gradually lowering closer. It is difficult to suggest exact distance, since only you know exactly how much light they are getting from the window (usually not enough, and any window coverings will cut it down further, even sheers). It also depends on plants. And if you have plants of various height, distance could be too close for tall plant and yet too far for another. ewwmayo is extremely organized (I have seen his set up in person), and his plants are much closer in height under same light. Mine are more 'mixed bag' :) - what I try to do is to elevate very short ones so tops of the plants are more equal. It doesn't work all the time, and it may not look pleasing enough for some. Every year I keep promising myself to organize them better...

I would buy light fixture that is wide enough to cover my growing area. So if your shelves are 4' or even 3', two footer is likely short? You'll have areas at the ends that won't get any benefit of the light, or very little.

It is bit of challenge to supply enough light for succulents in colder zones. I can't wait until it is warm enough for them (all) to be put outside - sadly, it is approx. 6mo indoors and 6mo outdoors.

Btw - your space is tidy, I don't see any mess :). If it was my kitchen I would have shelves in front of the other window too!

Window light will rarely work for succulents with their high light requirements, even less so through window panes given most of them are tinted. I suggest treating the supplemental lights as if they were the main light source for your plants. I have not tried Sunblaster, but it may not be as much of an overkill as it seems :)

I have been using artificial plant light for succulents with full colour and no etoliation for months. You can definitely make it work for your collection.

Based on the pictures, I suggest ensuring the light is long enough to cover all your plants from end to end. Once past the length of the bulb (i.e. plant not directly below bulb), light intensity drops dramatically and you want to avoid that for optimal results.

I totally empathise with your desire to keep the lights far enough to see the plants. I have the same issue! But the only way to do that is by using an extremely bright light source to compensate for the distance.

From the pictures, your succulents should be closer to the light source to get the intensity they need. They are a little far from the current lights at the moment. How close you can get depends on the needed light intensity and how much heat your light generates. Place your hand there for a good minute at the distance you are testing. If it gets uncomfortably warm for you, your plants will not like it either. Get your plants as close as possible without causing any burns. You'll be able to tell if the light is right when they start to colour up. Once you achieve that, new growth will grow compact and rosette-like as they are supposed to.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes ;)

Rina, I say supplemental for me and not for ewwmayo because there is no window light for him. So, I'm getting daylight through the window and direct sun for 1/3 of the day in the summer.

Based on what you say, a two lamp light may be better for the bottom shelf. I just wonder if it would be overkill because of daylight. I suppose I could always remove a bulb or turn it off if it's sunny. I'm not sure about all of that yet.

Cats, or now one cat, sit in the other window. This one cat used to walk on my plant table like she owns the place! I'm glad she got over that. But she's 18 years old, and we'll be getting kittens at some point. Just thought about that today. Scary.

If you saw a photo from above, you'd see the mess. Dirt and scraps all over, and not organized. Putting smaller plants on something that has them closer to the light is a good idea. How to do it is another matter. I'd also like to find some sort of trays to put under pots that don't have a drainage dish. I use super big clay pot drainage saucers for some, with pots sitting on a layer of small rocks, but round ones aren't space efficient.

Thanks for commenting. I felt so lonely with my first post being hidden.

I use 'communal' trays under plants, and try to get big ones if I see them. In the basement, plants are on shoe trays. They are large, and I have few of them covering tables with plants.

You may be surprised how much less lights is coming thru the windows - much less than we usually think. And the sheers cut it even more. It is hard to tell but what we think is lots of light, usually it is not. Best way to tell would be using light meter. (Btw, eww has a skylight in his growing room/loft - probably not much light reaches his plants, but there is natural light coming in). Most succulents would like to get lots of sunshine; I keep lights on for 12hrs/day. I have some in a window without any supplemental light - it is west exposure, unobstructed by any trees, and without any sheers. I think the light is only so-so, and try to keep there plants that do OK in lower light - haworthias, sansevierias. To raise plants, I have used upturned pots, empty plastic containers and similar gadgets. As I said - not very decorative but functional.

Alisa, I didn't see your comment at first. Your input has been extremely helpful. I used to love Echeverias but gave up on them. Thankful for Haworthias.

At this point it seems obvious to get the two lamp light and move the Sunblaster above the second shelf. A four foot long light would be way too wide, and three foot lights may be also--and they're hard to come by. The 2' are at least longer than what I had, which was a nice surprise with the Sunblaster. Right now I put the Haworthias and African Violets are on the 'fringe'. I may hang the lights so that they're a little lower, although the angle will make the sweet spot smaller of course.

How about leaving the lights on longer? Maybe 16 hours instead of 12? I try to adjust the time with the seasons somewhat, but maybe that's not necessary with most succulents.

Jeff

Longer is not better if light is weaker. I would rather have 10hrs of good light than 16 of weak. Again, it isn't easy to judge how 'good' is the light without measuring it, but it looks like you are using T5HO, 5000lumens and 6500k - that should work well.

Rina, what are communal trays? I just looked up shoe tray. That would be great. I'll ask my wife to be on the lookout at the thrift stores. Or maybe those aren't really that reusable.

I have some cactus in a south window. I think that will be changing since they're not growing much. I'll be asking for IDs for those.

Thanks for the help.

We're in sync here. Yes they're T5 HO, as will be the new one. I had a light meter when I was a photographer (different from what ewwmayo is using, I think), but it has since stopped working. I still miss it. Too expensive to replace.

Hi Jeff

No worries! Yes, echeverias are most sensitive to etoliation. I have echeverias doing well with tight rosettes and pinkish colouring under artificial lights, I hope after the tweaks you'll be able to enjoy them again too :) Hope your adjustments go well.

Thanks Alisa. I have a two lamp 2 foot one coming today. That will be on the lower shelf. I'll move the Sunblaster to the upper (middle) shelf and have that close to the plants. If I feel a need, I have money saved to get a 2nd Sunblaster, put those two above the bigger bottom area, and then I could put each one at a different height according to plant height. I might even have a light higher on one end than the other, which will take a while for someone as retentive as me to get used to. I'm going to be patient though and see if I really need it. My Echeveria agavoides is developing more color than I remember seeing, and it's not even very sunny there yet.

I ended up putting the Sunblaster over the second shelf. I lowered it a few inches so that it's closer to the plants. Recently I got a two lamp light to go over the bottom shelf, which has a bigger area. I had to put this flush to the top or I wouldn't have enough room to take out plants to water them. So far, so good. The two lamp fixture is very bright.

Now I have to work on organization. I have to think about if I should put taller plants by the window and shorter plants up front t, for presentation, or put smaller ones in back so they'll all get some sun, or somehow try to raise the shorter ones. If you have ideas, let me know.

There are houseplants on a third shelf above without lights.

I really appreciate the feedback I've gotten.

I am a convert to LED shoplights. I think I have seen 2' ones. They can be placed further away from the tops of plants. I run mine for 12 hours, from 9 pm to 9 am because it is cheaper to run them at night.

I wonder why those haven't been mentioned as much here.

I think lots of people have stuck with fluorescents because they have spent money on them preciously and are not willing to spend the money to replace them until they die.

I've heard very good things about the Sunblaster LED lights. They are quite expensive and a little harder to get, which is the main reason I haven't gotten any. LEDs have been discussed around here many times in the past. =)

Looking good JeffO and hope your plants are doing well under their new lights!

Thank you eww. Do you go by eww or mayo? I've read many of your posts. I've seen many of the square LED fixtures mentioned here, but I don't remember reading much about LED shoplights--ones that are in the same configuration as florescent light tubes, which would fit my situation size-wise, but I have no idea about brightness, or high output, etc.

Eww is okay, I don't like mayo. =P

LED shoplights are built for shops, so it's hard to find information on how good they are for plants. Only case is if someone has been using a particular model and has good feedback on it.

I tried to go with the highest K I could find that would still be white light. I bought Honeywell 4' LED lights in 5000K. I think the Sunblaster LEDs are higher K but were triple the price. Stush I know has posted about retrofitting LED tubes into fluorescent fixtures.

My setup pictures are on this thread:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/which-led-shop-light-should-i-buy-dsvw-vd~5009235

I remember reading that thread, especially, "I only use the blurples in the basement, which now glows with that unholy light lol" (Pagan), but for some reason I didn't remember the LED shop lights that odyssey mentioned. For my basement, I ended up getting a 4 lamp 4 foot T5 HO fixture for about $70. I suppose the LEDs would have paid for themselves eventually.

Any white LED grows plants. It's all about efficiency, poor quality LEDs make less light for the watts used. The best (efficient) current LEDs are 3000K by Samsung.