Does the contractor pay for this mistake?

6 years ago

An air make up system is required by code in our town for our tightly insulated new construction home that has a powerful stove hood. (1200cfm).

Our town adopted this code either very recently or it hasn't been enforced.

Our builder, the architect and the HVAC person did not bring this system to our attention at any point in time. All do a lot of work in our town. Nonetheless, we brought it to their attention after a chance conversation with a friend led to lots of research on our part and our conclusion that nothing could convince us to forgo the system.

Who should pay to install it? Note that the labor would have been marginal if it had been done at the same time as the rest of the mechanicals.

For reference, the dry wall is already up, but we haven't moved in yet and have several items still to go.

GC should pay for the labor and materials.

GC should pay for the labor. Homeowners should pay for materials.

The homeowners should pay for the labor and materials.

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User

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

First, it would be the architect, not the GC, that is responsible for getting the plans correct. The GC would expect the plans to be complete, and would not expect that you only paid the architect for half a job.

Second, a stove is not even required for a CO, nor is cooking equipment required to be hooked up at the final inspection unless it is of the built-in type, or otherwise on the premises at the time.

The the architect will often take a shortcut of just stating "range provided by homeowner", which in turn means the whole situation becomes a cost plus allowance that should have been properly specified by the person who sold you the stove. If the Thermador people default at that point, the burden falls to the person picking out the stove and other appliances.

Third, a range hood is not even required, let alone anything over 400 cfm.

If the architect failed to note a 1200cfm hood with MUA on the plan, do not expect the GC or HVAC people to be mind readers. Further, if you did not have the exact models of ALL these appliances picked out and specified at the time of bidding the project, there is no way MUA would have been allowed for. The reality is that most people outside of these forums would presume 400 cfm to be enough for any normal cooking. I would suspect that the first time anyone actually realized you were going to have such a powerful hood is when you just recently brought it up.

Depending on your location, and other circumstances, MUA may not even be required until over 600cfm, making it even less likely to be code required. The reality is that such high cfm hoods are rarely installed, and most people on the job have never had to deal with such high cfm.

This is all to show you that it is a long jump from "the house will have a stove" to "GC should have known we would need MUA"

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Comments (7)

Michael Lamb
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
If it happened to me, I think the fair way is for you to pay the cost of the system had it been installed before the drywall went up, and the contractor absorbs the rest. This is one of those situations where something was overlooked. Unless you decided at the last minute that you wanted a 1200 cfm hood, and your contractor did not anticipate you wanting that monster. If you have small children or pets, please keep them away from the hood while it is running.

How did you determine that you need that many CFM's? You might actually be able to get by with less, and save yourself some money on the hood and not having to install an expensive makeup air system.

Also, some hoods with higher CFM's have jumper switches on them that will limit the CFM's to a lower rate to pass inspections. You can do that, remove the jumper after inspection, but just remember to open a window when you crank that baby up.
cerileen thanked Michael Lamb
cerileen
Original Author
6 years ago
Mike lamb - our Thermidor stove is a lot of BTUs... not handy off hand. We know we can “open a window” but feel that it should have been done right in the first place. Code seems to support our view. We fee the contractor let us down but not having even put this in front of us, but my husband and I disagree on how liable that makes the contractor so we really appreciate your input!
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PRO
Beck Renovate and Remodel
6 years ago
The question I would ask is was the code approved prior to the permit being issued? If so the builder is responsible. If not approved prior to the permit the builder is not required due to the permit being issued under old codes.
cerileen thanked Beck Renovate and Remodel
cerileen
Original Author
6 years ago
Fred - the mind reader thing doesn’t apply in this circumstance although I totally see your point. There have been other situations like this in te process where we give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason.

Back story is that we met te GC when we had considered buying a spec home from him. We asked him if he’d build the same house after we acquired our own lot a few months later. (Yes). We worked with his same architect for MINOR modifications - no change to the kitchen or mechanicals. In fact, the contractor set the budget using the invoice from the appliances in the previous build and that is indeed the range and hood we selected too.

A MAKE up air system was never installed in the previous house or any of his other similar homes. I assume for the previous house - either the town has been lax about it or ??? Well, we did upgrade our insulation so perhaps our tighter wrap may be a difference. The stove and range was and will be installed before CO....

Altogether, we feel that we weren’t given guidance that should have been well within their subject matter expertise and experience - GC, HVAC, appliance sales person or architect. Especially if you are marketing yourself to build houses at this price point that are likely to have upgraded appliances.

It turns out town code backs us up although I see why the town approved our plans in the initial stages since they wouldn’t know about our appliance selection.

It seems to me that there’s a perfect storm of heavy duty vents and increasingly tightly wrapped homes that is making all of this somewhat of a new problem but still... it should have come up.

Everyone’s feedback is awesome! Things can see get hairy. It’s not even clear to me how much $$$ is at stake. Anyone?
User
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Unfortunately, It is not that extraordinary to find that none of these people who should know better, don't. I am constantly surprised by how many GCs and architects wait for the underpaid inspector to tell them what the code changes are instead of looking it up themselves. The excuse is often that they would not want to have to provide anything new and extra that their competition is not also forced to do by the inspector :-/

If it is the GC's architect, and the GC has a hand in what is included on the plan and construction details, then the buck should stop at the GC, as long as the appliances and range hood are stipulated elsewhere in the contract. However, the contract would only specify exactly what was allowed to be done in the previous house you are copying.

"Well, we did upgrade our insulation so perhaps our tighter wrap may be a difference." - This can make a big difference, especially when combined with newly updated energy codes that force them to recognize the MUA requirement. There is the 400/600 PRESCRIPTIVE CODE, or you can used the "do the math" alternative. http://www.broan.com/tools-landing-page/range-hood-make-up-air-damper-specifier It sounds like you really REALLY NEED to also look into the newer whole house mechanical ventilation requirements for your area as well. To some point, the two systems may be able to be combined.

"although I see why the town approved our plans in the initial stages since they wouldn’t know about our appliance selection." - And, it is above the pay grade of the one who goes out to the job and signs off the card at final... or nobody has pointed that line of the code out to them... since a person can make WAY more in the private sector, it tends to be a variant of the old saying, those that can't do, inspect and criticize.

"making all of this somewhat of a new problem but still... it should have come up." - It still amazes me how often this still comes up on Houzz.

"It’s not even clear to me how much $$$ is at stake." - It can depend on where you live and the climate, how they interpret or amend the code, and things like what type of water heater, furnace, fireplace, radon,.. you have. If your furnace and water heater are (high efficiency) direct vent with PVC vent pipes, it may cost less. (But, you may still need to open a window at higher fan speeds for the best efficiency)
cerileen thanked User
cerileen
Original Author
6 years ago
Fred thank you for your contribution! We will pour over this information and perspective.

Does the contractor pay for this mistake?

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Michael Lamb

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