How cool that you found the original plans from the '50s!

We need additional dimensions and information from you.

How wide is the wall to the right of the back door? How wide is the doorway, including molding? How wide is the wall to the left of the door?

How wide is the wall the sink is on? How wide is the hallway entry into the kitchen? How wide is the short wall next to the DW?

How wide is the wall to the right of the DR entry? How wide is the DR entry?

Is the hallway, lower right on the drawing, the way you get from the front door to the kitchen and back hallway?

What structural changes are you willing or able to make? For instance, straightening out the angled wall would make a big difference. If you can't do that, we need to know the dimensions of each section of those 3 walls that border the LR and DR.

Where do you enter the house? The backdoor in the kitchen? Or is there an attached garage and you enter somewhere down the hallway? Or do you enter via the front door?

If you only use the back door to get to the backyard or deck, would you be willing to replace the DR window with a sliding door and eliminate the backdoor in the kitchen?

Are you willing to move plumbing? Is your basement finished? That would make it more costly to move plumbing.

Do you need full size appliances or can you make do with smaller appliances, such as an 18" DW?

There's a whole lot more that we need to know about you to help you. See New to Kitchens? Read Me First!

For instance....

If you can straighten the angled wall, replace the DR window with a slider and eliminate the back door in the kitchen, and if you can move plumbing, this plan is possible.

With the above plan, you could add an entry between kitchen and LR. If you don't want your kitchen on view all the time, make it a barn or pocket door. A frosted or textured glass door will let light pass through while blocking a sink view from the front door.

If you go with lisa_a's design, you can also eliminate the hall by the stairs - a total waste of space.

Here's another possibility. Plumbing stays put, back door is relocated, angled wall is straightened out, DR entry is widened.

Meant to add that if you want a wider stretch of counter between sink and corner, you can shrink the drawer base to the left of the DW from 21" to 15" (any narrower and it won't work for silverware storage), shift DR and sink to the left and replace the 36" drawer bank with 2 - 21" drawer banks (or whatever configuration suits your needs). That would give you 42" of counter (actually a wee bit more) for prep work.

Before you do that, figure out what small appliances, such as coffee maker, you'll keep out and where you'd keep them so that you don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

Can you post some photos? I am curious about the area to the right of the front door - can you pull the kitchen out into that area - even a couple of feet to make the kitchen larger?

Something along these lines?

You could also consider flipping the kitchen and dining room....

I am new to houzz and am so impressed by all the feedback I've been getting - thank you! Here are some photos, and I'll work on getting a better sketch and dimensions put together. As you can see we bought this house knowing we needed to do a lot of remodeling. We recently finished a full bath remodel in the fall, and now that seems like a breeze compared to the kitchen!

A few things to note:

While I LOVE the idea of doing something with the wasted hall space by the stairs, the window placement (see photos) can't change because it lines up with the second story windows. If the hallway wall is extended to make the bedroom larger, it will cut into the window. I should not have excluded the other windows in my sketch!

The back door is tricky because our garage is detached and to the right if you're exiting the back. Moving the door to the left would make a longer walk to the garage in WI winters and the need to modify the stoop and sidewalk. This isn't a deal breaker though because we have considered a small deck off the back door.

I'm pretty sure the wall the fridge is on now is a load bearing wall, so it'd be nice if it could stay.

Now the photos - I'll do my best to orient you, and I apologize in advance for the quality of these photos.

From dining

View to left

From fridge

From back door (door straight ahead is basement door)

From back door facing right

From back hall to kitchen (bathroom on right, awkward hall on left, basement door closed)

From front door (wood burning stove will be removed, chimney was capped when we redid the roof), kitchen is straight ahead behind the wall

From living room (kitchen to right opening)

From living room

From front door turning right

From living room

From back hall towards front of house

Close up of awkward hall window/stairs

From kitchen

Hello from a fellow Cheesehead! I live in the temperate PNW now. I do not miss bitter, icy, snowy Midwest winters one bit. My cousins often ask me if I've considered moving back. I always tell them, nope, I'm good. =)

Knowing that you enter the house by the back door nixes the suggestion of swapping out DR window for a slider. A swing door, especially if you use a storm door, is the way to go.

I did create a plan that actually moved the door slightly to the right. It doesn't give you nearly the amount of storage and counter space, though. But let me see if I can improve it.

You weren't kidding about the awkward fridge placement

You're right, that window placement in the hallway is awkwardly placed. No biggie, it didn't really impact the kitchen design.

Your LR's TV placement likely means a new entry from the LR to the kitchen isn't a good idea but that can easily be deleted from the plan.

Let us know whether your budget can stretch to some structural modifications or if it can stretch far enough to move it to a new space (swapping kitchen and DR, for instance.

Is your basement finished?

Thanks for posting photos. Very helpful!

All the doorways, passageways and windows are going to make getting a decent run of counters pretty tough. Even if you can find a way to do it, you still end up with foot traffic through your kitchen, which is something I hate. I would be focused on ways to move the kitchen to the current dining room, either as an open concept with the living room or enclosed as Debbi posted above.

All of this awkwardness is attributed to the second story addition. The current weird hall and stairs used to be a third bedroom on the first floor. This will help explain the closet and window next to the stairs. Also, I have big plans for all this orange trim, don't worry! PS No, the basement isn't finished. And our budget is flexible within reason for a 1700 sq ft house in a modest neighborhood.

"And not sure if it would be awkward to squeeze a 4'x1' hutch/cabinets with a shallow counter for coffee maker, etc?"

Awkward? Yes. You'd have about a 34" diagonal aisle between coffee hutch and pantry and coffee hutch and range counter. If anyone stands in front of it and especially if they open a drawer, and no one is going to get past. It will be as good a road block as your fridge currently is. If you want a coffee hutch, put it in your DR. If you look at the plan below, you'll see I added 15" d cabinets on each side of the existing window. You might be able to eliminate the hutch, which would give you more room on each side of your table.

Okay, here's a plan that doesn't move the door or window,although you will need to replace the window to bring it up to counter height. I recommend installing a slightly wider window too so that the sink is under the window. A sink doesn't have to be under a window but one that just misses the mark looks like a boo-boo.

The angled wall is eliminated. If the side wall is longer than 30", I recommend reducing it to that depth so that the it won't hinder fridge door opening.

The kitchen entry is moved to the LR wall, far enough away from the stairway wall and the TV and cabinet against the wall. Light switches next to the basement stairs won't need to move either. I added a pocket door in case you want to be able to close off the kitchen from the front door.

I just fit a 24" DW with a 1" side panel and a 1" counter overhang on the side. There's 1/8" to spare, which is tighter than my preference since your walls likely aren't square (they never are but more likely not in older homes) so talk to your contractor about how to deal with this ahead of time so that, if need be, they can make a modification to the BCC (keep reading to learn what that is) to make it all work.

The sink cabinet is a Blind Corner Cabinet (BCC) that is pulled out 3" from the left wall (need clearance to allow for doors and drawers to clear each other in the corner). Going with a BCC instead of a standard sink cab gives you more leeway to fit a 23" or 24" wide sink without having to cut the cabinet sides down to make it fit. It also makes it much easier if - hopefully never - you need to remove the sink down the road (cutting cab sides down to fit an undermount sink means that once in, it's not coming out without removing the counter.)

I framed the range with pass-throughs to the DR. My inspiration is Shanghaimom's gorgeous kitchen.

I left enough wall on either side of the pass-throughs to give you additional wall space for more upper cabinets for glasses, mugs, dishes, etc.

I allowed 39" for a full size fridge cab for a 36" wide fridge. You might get by with a slightly narrow cabinet but it would only be fractions narrower.

That leaves room for 50" of pantry cabs (need a 3" spacer between pantry and wall). That will give you loads of storage, which you really need.

Do you know about toe kick drawers? They provide storage for relatively flat items, such as cookie sheets, cutting boards, etc in the toe kick area below a cabinet. Here they are in Scrappy's kitchen. She used every bit of available storage in her modest kitchen.

.... I just got a crazy idea for your weird side hallway (I get my craziest ideas late at night, sometimes they spark a genius idea). With a new entry to the kitchen from the LR/entry, you could eliminate the hallway as a hallway. If you divide it roughly in half, you'd gain a mud room in the front section and a walk-in pantry in the back. Then you could turn the row of pantry cabs in the kitchen to cabs and counter for a coffee station.

IMO all you will get here are hundreds of ideas and still need a kitchen designer so get one now and save the time you spend reading all of these ideas that make my head spin.Once you have a concrete design then come back and ask if it works

IME, figuring out what you want and what you don't want through this process before you meet with a kitchen designer saves time, which translates to money that could otherwise be spent towards the remodel.

The CMKBD I hired towards the end of the design process to remodel my kitchen charged $125/hr. Her expertise was invaluable but I would have spent hundreds if not a few thousand more if I had hired her from the get go.

I also consulted with a KD early on in the process. I knew more than she did. She tried to talk me into replacing my 30" island cook top with a 36" cook top, shrinking my counter on each side of it to 12". If I had a condo-sized kitchen, that would be an acceptable compromise. But I don't. (btw, I moved my cook top off my island, gaining 42" of counter on one side and 22" on the other.)

She also told me that I didn't need to vent my gas cook top, that I'd be better off using the space it took under my cook top for my pots and pans. If not for my time spent on the Kitchen Forum (back when it was Garden Web) and learning all I could from a good friend, a CMKBD in another state, I wouldn't have known that her advice was bad. Really bad. What a waste of my $500.

unreal0385, CMKBD stands for Certified Master Kitchen and Bath Designer. KDs with this designation have at least 25 yrs in the business and have undergone certification through the NKBA, National Kitchen and Bath Association, a professional organization of KDs.

Other certification designations are AKBD and CKBD. You can find a KD for your area via their website. Given your kitchen's challenges, I suggest that you consult with at least a CKBD if not a CMKBD, when you're ready. Anyone, regardless of skill level and knowledge, can call themselves a kitchen designer.

Hmm, they've changed their website so I can't figure out how to help you find professionals in your area but a good place to start would be to contact the Wisconsin/Upper Michigan chapter of the NKBA.

unreal0385, I missed the part that this kitchen is in a 1700 sq ft home. Do you plan to stay in your home for many years to come? If so, remodel it to suit you and your family. Just know that if the kitchen isn't in scale with your home's size, it's going to hurt you when you sell. I helped a friend redesign his small kitchen in a 1100 sq condo. It has more storage and more counter than your plan would provide, even with a separate cook top and wall oven set-up.

Remodeling is expensive and it's a huge disruption to your daily life. I was cleaning dust out of nooks and crannies for months afterwards. Spend your $$ wisely and get the best functioning kitchen you can. I think that's going to include some structural changes. Otherwise you'll spend a lot of money to gain a different but not necessarily a better kitchen.

I drew up Debbi Washburn's suggestion to swap kitchen and DR. Even though the relocated kitchen occupies fewer sq ft than your kitchen current does, it's far more functional.

The back door stays where it is. You don't need to replace the window to its left. You will need to replace the window over the sink to be counter height and likely wider so that the sink is under it. There are changes to interior walls. Fingers crossed that the DR/kitchen wall isn't structural so that its removal doesn't require a beam. The LR wall likely is so you'll need to add a header to span the new opening.

Swapping kitchen and DR makes for a much better flow through your home. That's why I purposely kept the aisles generous around the table (although, at 44"
at each end, they are the recommended minimum aisle for seating). It also gives you through views from the front door to the backyard, which makes a home feel larger than it is. It will give a great first impression when people walk in. The swap also gives you a wider wall for your TV and a better set-up for furniture arrangement since there won't be a main traffic path through your LR anymore.

I spec'd the 3 side walls by the kitchen to be equal in width but if you want to block more of the kitchen from the front door, you can always lengthen the TV wall, lining it up with the left side of the front door.

Yes, it will cost more but IMO the pay-off for you now and for future resale is greater than if you keep your kitchen in its current location without exterior wall changes, such as moving the back door.

Have you done a tally of your kitchen items to know how much storage you need? Group them by use and measure how wide a drawer they require and the best location for their storage (ie pots and pans by range). It takes time but it's well worth it in the end. I used painter's blue tape to mark different drawer widths on my counter and placed items in the "drawer" during my planning stage.

The plan:

The result:

When our remodel was finished, DS2 said "now we have to figure out where everything goes." DH said, "No we don't. Your mom already knows." Unpacking my kitchen was a breeze because I knew exactly where everything would go and that it would all fit with room to spare.

I finally came up with a decent plan that doesn't move the back door and makes very few structural changes, which helps the budget.

I spec'd cabs based on Ikea sizes, another cost savings, especially if you can DIY the cab assembly and install. There are a number of kitchens created and owned by GWers that were made with Ikea cabinets. See Finished Kitchen Blog, Ikea cabinets to see some of them.

I kept the sink where it currently is, avoiding plumbing costs to move it.

You'll have to run electrical to the exterior wall for the range (needs more than standard outlet wiring) but venting a range out an exterior wall is easier and less expensive than venting a range on an interior wall so that also helps the budget.

I recommend replacing your side by side fridge with a 30" wide, standard
depth, left hand hinge, single door fridge and recessing it 3" into the
kitchen/LR wall to give you the aisle between DW and fridge that I show
in Plan G.

Additional pluses:

There isn't a single bit of wasted space. Straight runs of cabs and counters are always going to give you more usable counter space and storage than an L shape, unless you can access the corner from the next room, as I did by placing a pantry cab facing the DR.

A peninsula that can double as a buffet counter.

There is 1 5/8" to spare between range counter run and back door, which doesn't seem like much but it's 1 1/2" more wiggle room than there is in my plan E and most likely in your proposed plan. Should you need more than that, you can shift the range run a bit towards the DR. That is a much better situation to be in than trying to fit cabinets and counter between 2 fixed objects: wall and door.

The fridge is on the same wall as it currently is but moved about 30" towards the DR. That makes moving the water line for the ice maker a fairly straight forward thing. Depending on where the water line for the ice maker is, you may not need to move it that far.

Additionally, the hallway view won't feel so claustrophobic between that shift and the removal of the wall next to the DW. The removal of the wall between kitchen and DR will also help your kitchen feel more open.

If you ever want to add a doorway between kitchen and LR, there's room to do so (although you'll need to move the light switches).

Downsides (as I see them):

The sink and range aren't connected by counter.

You lose the kitchen window; you'll need to do some siding repair. I make up for the loss of light by adding 2 more windows to the DR.

Variation on the above plan:

Change the 15" pantry cab to a 15" base cab and a 24" wide upper. Store the MW on the counter here, between fridge and pantry cab facing DR.

The 24" wide, 24" deep pantry cab facing the DR becomes a 24" wide, 15" deep pantry.

This gives you the option to install a vent hood instead of a Microhood over the range

Lisa wow! Your mind blows me away! I decided to give it a shot, but you know me I always seem to get the dimensions wrong. Unfortunately the inches don’t show on the plan, but I double checked and followed your numbers a closely as I could.

unreal, sorry if this would be out of the budget to switch the rooms, but I agree it does flow way better.

@lisa_a All of your creative plans leave me with so much to think about! Your ideas and expertise make me wish you were still a cheesehead so you could just come over and tackle this project with me. I can’t stop staring at walls and pulling out the tape measure! I’ll be back after I’ve had time to digest.

Once you start with a kitchen designer, they will be able to put all these ideas into a 3d program so you will really be able to see the space!

You're welcome, unreal!

I did a tweak to Plan F to see if I could add a little additional storage without impeding aisles. I was able to find about 6" more, which isn't much but every bit helps.

I removed the wall between kitchen and DR, which adds 4 1/2" (assuming standard depth interior walls). I was also able to steal 2" from the DR, while still leaving adequate diagonal aisles between table and fridge and table and DW counter.

I opted to increase the width of cabs next to each corner but you can add the 6 1/2" elsewhere.

I widened the LR wall, lining it up with the left side of the front door. The wall extension completely blocks the view of the kitchen from the front door. The first thing anyone would see is the dish hutch I added to the right of the DW.

The dish hutch is a floor to ceiling shallow unit. I would leave most
of it as doored storage with one drawer for silverware. It won't be deep
and you won't be able to use a standard silverware organizer but you
can create a custom one using Lee Valley drawer dividers.

The dish hutch can match your cabinets or it can be a stand
alone piece. If you need it wider than I spec'd, you'll need to adjust
the width of the drawer to the left of the sink to accommodate a wider
dish hutch. Here are a few inspiration pics to show how that might look (all of these are wider than I spec'd).

I also added shallow pantry storage recessed into the wall next to the fridge. It's great storage for canned goods and other shallow pantry goods, which would free up the pantry cabinet in your kitchen for larger, bulky items.

Here's what that would look like:

I think I shared a photo of a small MW built into a pantry above but I'll share it again:

Or you can put a small countertop MW inside the pantry cab:

Just make sure you allow for the manufacturer's required air clearance around the MW to keep it functioning properly.

Here's how I figured out which lay-out was the right one for my family and me.

I pretended to make a meal in the new lay-out. I went through the motions in my head of the path I'd take to make a meal, where I'd prep, the path I'd take to put the meal on the table and then to clear it up, where I'd prep to bake, etc. I'd imagine this when it was just me in the kitchen and how it would work for multiple cooks. Doing this as well as the kitchen tally and organization chart will really help you determine which plan works best for you and what tweaks you need to make to make it work even better.

Another thing I found helpful was to do mock-ups with cardboard. Back before I decided to move the cook top off my island, I even created a very crafty cardboard island hood to see how it would feel to have a big ol' thing hanging over my head. One of DS1's friends tried to talk me into leaving it up permanently like an art installation, lol.

I also used cardboard to extend my perimeter counter all the way to the door to the deck to make sure I would be okay losing the 7" between counter and door. I'm a klutz so I worried I'd bang my hip but after trying it out for a couple weeks, I realized it wasn't a problem at all.

To make the most of your meeting or meetings with a KD, do your homework
in advance and create an idea folder to show him or her. The more
details you provide, the better.

As Debbi Washburn wrote, a kitchen designer can provide 3D drawings to help you visualize how the new lay-out will look (IME, not everyone can translate overhead views to elevation views). He or she will also take accurate measurements and check for quirks of your older home and adjust a plan as needed. They will also advise you on material selection, finish details, etc.

rebunky, your wonderful compliment made my day! Thank you!

Oops, nearly forgot to add why I didn't add corner storage as Rebunky
did in her plan.

IME, the best functioning corner units are expensive and I didn't find that they provided better storage than drawers so I generally opt to ignore the corner in favor or wider drawers. It would be different if your kitchen was large enough to accommodate a corner Susan and still have room for a 24" or wider drawer between the corner and the range. In your plan, adding corner Susans would shrink the drawer bases to narrow, less functional units: 16 1/2" for the drawer base to the left of the sink, 12" on each side of the range and 12 1/2" next to the pantry. That's exterior width, not usable interior width. They would be at least 3" narrower, depending on cab construction.

I had narrow cabs in my kitchen, pre-remodel; they provide very limited storage IME. I did not really increase my kitchen's footprint when I remodeled but because I worked to increase the functionality of my storage, I not only have ample storage post-remodel, I even have room to spare despite eliminating 4 upper cabinets and reducing the width of my one remaining upper cabinet.

Just for grins and giggles, here are pics of my island hood mock-up and my counter extension. (notice the tape measure on the island. It was always close at hand during my planning process.)

As you can see in the photo above, blue painter's tape is another great visualization tool. In this instance, I used it to mark out the new location for a hood and cook top. This was after I decided to move my cook top off the island to the perimeter. Best decision ever and worth every penny we spent to do so.

PS If you're interested, you can see more of my kitchen's storage organization in my reveal thread, [50 Shades of Gray, TKO style[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/50-shades-of-gray-tko-version-dsvw-vd~3447557?n=113) (TKO stands for Totally Kitchen Obsessed.) Hopefully it will help you think through your kitchen organization.