You will never please this man, quit trying. He is getting pleasure out of this. Don't get him anything this year and see what happens then. Tell him you love him and let it go. This is hurting you more than him. Put a stop to it now and see what happens.

Thanks, Aprile. I'm delighted to realize my good fortune in NOT having anyone like this in my life.

I like the gift to charity in his honor. He won't like the charity you choose, but someone will be grateful for what you have given. And you will have followed the Commandment to Honor Thy Father (the old goat).

How old is your father?

Yes. No matter what, you never will please him. Get yourself some counseling to make peace with the fact that he's a nasty, manipulative individual. As others suggested, make a gift to a charity in his name. Give him a card telling him of the gift. If he complains about your choice (and he will), kindly tell him that he has never appreciated any gift you've chosen for him and until that changes, you'll be spending "his gift money" by donating to charities that appreciate the gift.

My mother was like that, so you have my sympathy.

Load his butt in the car and take him shopping and let him choose.

Maybe just give him a card. Not a gift card, a greeting card.

I used to exchange gifts w/ my brother(12yrs older) & sister(10yrs older). Note They hate each other & haven't spoken in 40 years.

Very toxic people. They wanted others to be responsible for making them happy. I opted out. :0)

I would give him absolutely nothing. I would tell him go buy his own gift. Why put up with the aggravation. He's not worth it.

Not just about buying gifts, but in general my Mom doesn't like anything that isn't her idea. She won't change or try anything new.. for example, she likes a bit of Vodka now and then so for her birthday, we bought her a top of the line brand. But she promptly poured it into her old cheap bottle! That's just the tip of the iceberg. She actually lost her job as she refused to switch to using a computer. And I still can't convince her to go online so we can communicate more easily as we live 500 miles apart.

Be cautious when thinking it's okay to stop caring or put more strain on the relationship. Someday he'll be in need of a care giver, or even worse, lying in a hospice bed with you holding his hand and apologizing to each other for not being kind and patient.

Stop trying to please him and please yourself. As long as he's not satisfied, he knows you'll keep coming back and trying harder. Plus if he's never satisfied, he never has to be grateful or beholden. Much better for him as he retains control. So he's happy with the way things are...you're the one who's unhappy. Give him whatever you wish knowing he won't be happy, but you'll be happy knowing you made the effort.

My Dad was a bit like that. Anything we would give him for an occasion was opened and looked at and put aside. When he opened the gifts from my 2 brothers he couldn’t quit raving about whatever it was. It could have been the exact same thing I gave him, but it got rave reviews. Didn’t matter. Funny they didn’t ever seem to notice until he passed away and we were talking one day and little things he did came up. I spoke up for the first time and I think it opened their eyes a little bit.

He is 69. As far as not giving him anything. I sadly would pay dearly for that one all year long and I know it. He already points out every single person who did not get him anything for his birthday or Christmas all year long and holds that grudge forever and repeats it to me and the people who did not gift him anything. Like you all said he gets some great pleasure in being the way he is. For my sanity I do not want to listen to it all year long over and over.

The strange thing is I think he is socially incompetent. He just has no social skills what so ever. He does things that are really nice to me but then does things like the deliberate digs and I don't get it. Every single morning he goes to Dunkin Donuts and brings me a coffee. I don't ask him to do it but he does it. If I am not awake when he goes I can count on it being on my kitchen counter everyday. He will bring me dinner or offer to go anywhere I want to pick me up food. I mean if I told him to drive 40 miles because I wanted something from someplace that far he would get in his car and go get it. But then he does the digs and mental mind f**king excuse the language but best I can describe. So sometimes I just don't get him. He is petty and child like in his thinking and I know this but again it bugs me to no end. Since he goes and gets the coffee and he likes to go pick up food because he doesn't cook. I have bought him gift cards to each place he frequents, plus a visa card for Christmas. Do you know he wont even use the food cards. Makes no sense. He also watches what I give to other people because if someone gets something really nice from me and he doesn't get equally nice he holds the grudge. So I give a lot the household people gifts separate away from him and give only the smaller gifts during our gift exchange time.

I already cook dinners he likes throughout the year and the only reason now a days I even do holiday dinners is for him as the rest of us in the house could careless about the dinners. I try to do that so he feels included and not left out as me and my son are his only living relatives and he and my son are mine hence the reason I try to keep the peace. I did not know him until I was older. We had our blow out on that one and I got everything I felt off my chest about my earlier life and thought I'd start fresh which I have except the gift thing.

I just needed to rant because here it is a few days before Christmas and he is leaving me no choice but to do the gift card thing even though we have tried and tried to talk to him about things he would like to have. And like I said anything he mentions are things that while I really could afford to do them if I wanted too, I refuse to do because he expects it from me when I feel he has does nothing to make me feel like he deserves an extravagant gift if that makes sense.

He got all bent out of shape when I took a family of 8 plus my son and I to Disney World all expenses paid by me. I did this because I knew my friend and her family would never ever be able to afford it in their lifetime. She and I have been friends since we were 3 years old long before I even met my father in person that I could actually remember him being around, he and my mother divorced when I was young and he wasn't around until like I said later in my life. My friend has been there through thick and thin with me. So I took her whole family including her mother and we all spent the day together and the kids got to spend a day with their grandmother doing something like I said was way out of something they could ever do on their own. Fate works in mysterious ways and shortly after that trip my friends mother was diagnosed with brain cancer and recently died on Nov 30th. It was the last time the grand kids ever got to spend the day with their grandmother doing something fun and making memories. My father harps on the fact that I did that yet I couldn't buy him a 65" TV or pay for us all to go on our own cruise to make memories.

Thank you again for letting me vent. I am glad so many of you are fortunate to not ever have to deal with someone like this and for those of you who do. I feel for you from the bottom of my heart.

Aprile

If there was a fire ant mound in your back yard would you constantly put your hand in it?

I'm not trying to criticize because you obviously have a good heart. What you did for your friend was awesome. But if it was fire ants you would probably stop doing whatever it was you were doing that got you bit.

Vent away. Give yourself permission to dislike his behavior. You owe him nothing. Just because you're related doesn't mean you're bound to his opinion. You deserve better. His expectations are skewed. One shouldn't expect a gift; there's where his mistake is. He's very unreasonable about it all. Your boundary is reasonable. You don't have to keep moving it, even if he keeps moving the goal farther out than you wanted.

Have you spoken to him about how his self-centered conduct affects you? And what he might do differently to make you more comfortable with him?

No suggestions. I just admire you for your ability to keep trying. It's very sad.

Especially since he wasn't really a dad to you for most of your life.

Does he have money issues? Is that why he keeps asking for expensive things?

Relationships can be complicated.

I've been reading a lot lately about empathy, compassion and forgiveness because I have a situation in my life that I am trying to resolve. If you can find it in your heart to feel compassion and forgiveness towards him because of his social awkwardness, I think you will feel a load lift off of your shoulders. When you feel your buttons being pushed, try to remember all those kind things he does throughout the year like bringing you coffee and fetching dinner and let the rest go. Easier said than done, I know, but it's worth a try for your own emotional health. He's not going to change, so it's up to you to change the way you react to him.

As far as the gift goes, stop putting out so much effort when you know you can't please him. Buy a nice Christmas card and put the equivalent of whatever you'd spend on a gift inside the card in the form of cash. I can't think of anyone who can't find a use for cash. If and when he starts the digs, just change the subject, leave the room, go for a walk or take a drive - whatever it takes to remove yourself from the complaining.

Best of luck to you. I hope you are able to figure out a way to deal with this situation and have a nice holiday.

>I sadly would pay dearly for that one all year long<

Only if you allow yourself to pay dearly - the ones that are saying to stop playing his game are right, as long as you continue to tell yourself you have to put up with his abuse you will be subject to it. Yes, it's some kind of power trip or other toxic syndrome on his part, so he will find fault every time no matter what the circumstances - I've tried to work for a couple people that were like that. Their need to always be right, to be the only one who knows was so deep it was sometimes silly, with them contradicting themselves from one occasion to the next (you do it the way they say they want it one time and then later doing it the way they wanted before is now the wrong way to do it - just so they can correct you each time it comes up).

His personality disorder is a fixed cost, that you cannot change. The variable element in the equation is you choosing to be burned by it.

It's best to resolve the situation than feed the bitterness. There will be a time when he needs a care giver, or lying on the hospice bed holding your hand while you both spend time apologizing to each other for lack of patience and kindness instead of sharing joys and happiness.

Sounds like your father is a mixed bag of kindness and social ineptitude. Venting here can help you take the rough with the smooth, since it doesn't sound like his 'roughness' is going to be magically smoothed away anytime soon.

Another thought -- does he know how to use a gift card? They haven't been around forever, and at age 69 and socially awkward he might not quite understand how they work.

I'd give him a Dunkin' Doughnut card.
And if he doesn't use it, so be it.

AND I wouldn't put up with his constant B!tching for a nano second. When he started in, I would tell him you're not going to listen to his ranting, and if he continued, I'd say, "not listening to this anymore." and walk away. Even if it's just out of the room.

Tell him he needs to find something happy to discuss. Seriously.

He's an unhappy man and will never change unless YOU set the rules.

Good luck!

What pudgeder said! And if he complained about the doughnut card, I'd say, "Okay, no more gifts."

Whenever he starts complaining and ranting, just agree with him! "You took your friends to Disney, but didn't take me on a cruise." "Yep, I did." "You didn't buy black twizlers." "Nope" "I only like the small twizlers." (go get kitchen shears and cut them all without saying a word) Don't buy gift cards (unless it is one you want back). Maybe just take him out to dinner.

Don't argue or reason with him. You won't win. Just agree in one or two words. The less you engage, the less you will give him ammunition to use. Let him complain, but don't really answer. " Um, Oh really, My goodness, That's too bad.When you get tired of it, just leave. The room, the house, whatever.

Like you all said he gets some great pleasure in being the way he is.
For my sanity I do not want to listen to it all year long over and over.

One way to deal with the over and over again complaints is to have a sentence that you respond with over and over to him. It can be something simple or a longer sentence, but it is something that you drill into him by repetition.

"Dad, there must be something inside you that makes you so unhappy and bitter."

And then you stop there and say no more. Your goal is to change the conversation from his complaint to what's wrong with him.

in answer to your question yes I did. My mother and father were both very toxic. My mother was verbally abusive and my father sexually molested one of my sisters when she was an adult. The second one was the straw on the camel's back for me. I emotionally and physically divorce myself from the family. I am now back reunited with my sisters but the relationships are not toxic.

You are never going to please this man. I doubt he has the ability to have a normal relationship that doesn't involve relatives helping him with money, is it possible he probably left you and your mother because he thought you would be expensive, and came back because he thought he could go get something out of you now that you were an adult?

Sad yes. Harmful to you emotionally? I think so.

I do understand why you're hanging on to that relationship. However he is hitting you verbally. It's the same thing as when somebody is hit physically. He is abusing you and then making up for with coffee instead of flowers. When he does these zings I think you should have some verbal defense that is very neutralizing. When someone is rude to me I repetitively say after each phrase the neutralizing for me phrase:. Thank you for sharing that. While it's difficult I continually remind myself to not let in what cruel people are saying. I learned that from Marisa Peer. She is a famous hypnotist in England.

Without being rude I do want to point out that your son is going to see this behaviour on your father's part. We are always surprised at how much are children pick up. We hope that our sons don't follow in the cruel primary male's footsteps but you do have to be a little concerned about that I'm sure.

I think you're going to have to change your attitude. Look at your father's social ineptness as his burden to bear and let it go at that. I'd still get him a gift, but make it a gift of your presence. How about dinner at a restaurant and a trip to the movies, or some other activity he likes? Give him a coupon and ask him to pick the date. Make it a gift of time. Have the most fun with it you can.

I'm only half joking when I say he needs a girlfriend for Christmas. Give him something else to do and think about other than annoying you. Since he lives with you, it might give you a little space in the relationship too.

I completely understand and sympathize. I have one...I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

However....for me, I couldn't not try. At least I know that I made the effort that's constantly wrong ;) So I'm okay with myself.

Hugs to you Aprile....

And Bloody Marys go down well these days....

I suggest you buy yourself a Christmas present in the form of counseling. He is manipulating and controlling you and probably gets pleasure from it. He puts you on a guilt trip and is playing you. You are trying too hard to make up for the time you were apart and hoping for a normal relationship and he knows it.

No but my kids do. Their step mother this year told my daughter she didn't have to come for Christmas if she didn't want to ????!! Then proceeded to give her a list of gifts for her, her daughter and her grandson, even mentioning a bike for her grandson. My daughter doesn't make that much money. She bought them all gifts the other day. I told her I wouldn't bother, that she should just go out with her father one day to celebrate Christmas alone with him. She's still going to their Christmas dinner even though she knows she isn't wanted. She buys them all gifts because if she doesn't her step mother makes their father miserable about my kids not giving her gifts. WTF?

69 isn't all that old. if he really is unaware of his behavior, he's getting some twisted pleasure out of what he says and does.

Aprile, give yourself a Christmas present of counseling. Find someone trained to help you cope with this. We can give ideas, but there is no need to put up with this. Come here and vent, but please go talk to someone trained.

Have a good Christmas, even if not exactly merry.

PS. I am 65. He is not that old.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It must be so exasperating. I agree with maybe just giving him cash. You aren't going to change him, I'm sure you realize that.

Aprile, the next time he gripes about every Tom Dick and Harry that didn't buy him a gift on his birthday or Christmas, tell him WHY they don't buy anything...because he hates everything he is given so they just stopped buying! It's like that old saying about insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Hi Aprile,

How would he react to humour?

Your spreading your hands, laughing, and saying, something like "Well - what can we do to please you, you silly old bugger? No matter what we do, it's never O.K., or even appreciated. So how be I give you a lump of coal for Christmas ... would that work well into your plans and way or life?"

Let him know that you're onto his game ... and the only way you're going to play is by laughing at these strange ways of his.

That he's no longer going to push your buttons ... you've been putting up with that long enough, and it's not going to continue.

Maybe not tell him of that last - let it be your inner resolve, and let him know it by your actions.

I agree also that it'd be a good idea for you to let someone who knows how to work through such troubling issues with people guide and help you as you work your way through to a place where you can wean yourself emotionally from this angrifying and troubling dependence.

Learn how to live your own life, independently (except where you choose the parameters of mutual respect and dependence): be your own boss ... and let folks, outsiders, who get your goat be relegated to a place distant enough that they can paddle their own canoe in whatever fashion they please ... but you're no longer going to sit/be stuck in it.

Learn how to keep his manipulations out there at (at least) arm's length.

ole joyful

Thank you for all the comments and replies. I have been to counseling lots of it. To the person who said he left because I was expensive. Well you were partly true. He wouldn't pay child support because he didn't want to give my mother any money. In his eyes that money would have been used by my mother to party it up and not support me.

And I don't really put up with his comments I more ignore him and walk away roll my eyes. But at first I was just like really? My son doesn't like his behavior, I don't have to worry about that thank god. My son strives to be the opposite of him.

For the most part the little digs and comments are what they are and they more roll off my back. It is just this time of year when trying to sit him down and actually get him to tell me what he wants or would like and him being stubborn about telling me, again I know that is part of his game. I guess I should know what he wants or likes and he shouldn't have to tell me. But watching him he has no likes seriously. He does not go out unless it is to go get something to eat, the doctor or grocery store. We have invited him places, offered to take him to dinner, even offered to take him to NASA for his birthday and dinner afterwards because he had been saying he wanted to go, until we give him the chance. We had tickets to go to Trans Siberian Orchestra 2 years in a row. He bought his ticket then the day before backs out. Last year and this year. He does not want to go anywhere.

But as I said generally I don't let him get to me. Does it irk me sure. Does it cause me great grief or am I having Daddy issues by no means am I because to be frank, he is not my father, he is a man who basically donated sperm that created me and that father daughter relationship on my side will never ever happen. He is older, was alone, had no other living relatives and lived 3000 miles away. I figured I'd move him in give him a chance which as I said isn't all bad. He contributes to the bills, he pays for his own food so he doesn't cost me anything to stay here in fact actually helps.

But I do get frustrated at this time of year trying to figure out something nice to or at least something he would use. So I thought I'd vent. Vent done.

Other than this behavior or even before you knew he acted like this how did you feel about him moving in? I know you said you moved him in but did you really want to or did you feel obligated? I know he wasn't there for you but maybe living with you he still senses that you have issues with him and this is how he reacts?

My Dad wasn't as bad as that but he was uncomfortable in accepting gifts, he liked to give them though. I once tried to find the perfect gift for my Dad for Father's Day that he would like and use and I found a white porcelain mug that said Dear Old Dad 3 times around it in rows of red and blue letters. He liked to drink tea so what could go wrong? haha I gave him he mug and he said "thanks but you keep it here" and he never took it. I have to say I was crushed. He never came back to use it because he died suddenly a few months later. The weird thing that happened was I dropped the mug and broke the handle off the day he died even before I knew he died. 33 years later I still have the mug sitting on my shelf in the living room and it holds coins I used to find out on my walks. One gift I know he didn't mind getting was candied ginger or chocolate covered ginger and lottery tickets (still a new thing at the time) so that is what he usually got for Christmas from me. Just remembered one other gift I bought him and that was a bath sheet because he was a big tall man and I thought it would be better than using a small towel to dry off. Nope, I still have that bath sheet too. Take your Dad out to dinner and tell him that is his gift. Maybe he just wants to spend time with you.

Aprile -- Of *course* you have Daddy Issues! Would you have found some other random person to move across the country and take into your home? Yeah, right.

I see 'issues' a-plenty here, yours...and his. Stuff like this boils up over holidays and birthdays, but it's always *there*. You two have a lot of past history that makes the present difficult.

I think this makes you 'perfectly normal', BTW, but maybe that is because my father abandoned my mother and me when I was two, finally forcing her to divorce him on charges of adultery, then never paying either alimony or child support. (There was no divorce without cause in those days.) He started another family with his mistress, then wanted me to play Happy Families Together with her and their children. Well...no. I did send him money after he fell on hard times and was dying. I do not regret not seeing him then, and I would never be taking him into my home.

Not joking...he needs a girlfriend! Has he had a good physical? There might be something going on with his health or perhaps depression. At his age, did he recently retire? Maybe he has lost his identity and he does not want to go on a cruise or anywhere alone ... I wouldn't want to do that either...so tell him you are going with him... 69 is still young, but start with that physical

When I am depressed, I don't want to go anywhere. It might be contributing?

I had a similar blowup with my mom a few years ago at Thanksgiving. I severed ties because I just couldn't put myself through any more of that drama and torture. So far, no regrets.

He seems to be a professional grouch, and he's using you for a punching bag, so stop being a punching bag. Don't buy him any gift. Instead, say, "I did not get you a gift this year since it seemed you did not want, or could use, anything, so lets go have a dinner on me and we can thrash over old times." I suspect that he will complain about the dinner. If he does so to a high degree, reply, "Fine. Apparently dinner was a bad idea. Tell you what. Next year why don't we skip the birthday celebration all together. I'll send you a card to show that I remembered. Maybe I'll send a donation to MY favorite charity in your name."

You are not a mind reader and can not fathom his wants, especially if his wants are kept secret. I suspect that when you remove the 'punching bag', there will be a reaction.

What Sherry said, DONT ENGAGE. BTDT.......

Aprile, the ONLY thing you have ANY impact on with this situation is how you react to it. Period.

Work on yourself and my hope is that you find some inner peace.

The OP describes him as your father. Later on you describe him as nothing more than a sperm donor. I guess the brokenness lies somewhere between father and absentee daddy. It would have been more honest to post your resentments in the opening post. Both of you need therapy in order to make this a relationship.

Aprils, is there any reason why he can't go to a senior apartment? Maybe I didn't dig deep enough in the previous posts. Maybe he would make a friend or two and mellow out, and you wouldn't have to put up with his constant jabs.

I think I vaguely remember a much earlier post about your living situation. Your "father"/housemate wanted the best, biggest, most convenient part of the house for his quarters? Something like that. He sounded like a user to me then and it doesn't sound like things have gotten any better. I hope next year you can work out a completely different living situation. Maybe, for example, he could buy you out on your portion of ownership and you could move elsewhere. There might be financial advantage to you right now, or maybe it is mutual financial advantage, but a smaller place without the housemate might give you some relief and peace.

Hi again aprile,

I've been considering your situation some, since reading your original post.

You need some emotional space between you.

Don't let him pull this passive-aggressive business on you.

Don't let him push your buttons.

How would he react if you began to rather laugh at these sillinesses? In something of a light-hearted way, not coming across as mean-spirited and bitter.

I hope that you can find some ways to resolve some of these issues between you.

Do you have some person who cares about you, and is level-headed and sensible, whether professionally trained or not, who can listen and be helpful as you work your way through this troubling situation?

Maybe a faith-related person, who'll listen, consider your situation and you and not just offer a bunch of pre-digested nostrums, that are given as the answer to every person's need, regardless of their individual circumstance.

I wonder some about your dad inhabiting his own little emotional cubbyhole - is there some way to help him get a larger view of life, and feel more at home in it?

Has he dealt with counselling, or would he be amenable to such? Is there someone whom he trusts, to whom he might pay attention, were they to suggest it and encourage him?

ole joyful