You know there are techniques available where a cell from Sugar Maple could be fused with a cell of Silver Maple. Assuming these cells would be viable, it would be interesting to see what would result. Potentially you could end up with a very fast growing tree that is also very tough. Have 4 or more complete sets of chromosomes often result in very vigorous plants. Many of our crop plants have 8 or even more sets of chromosomes. Then there is the potential of hybrid vigor. The issue would be getting someone to pay for the lab work, then tissue culture work with no certainties. And for those of you who get uncomfortable with the ideal of combining species, it happens every day. The freemanii Maple is a excellent example. Venus Dogwood is another, along with the Stellar series. Then there are all the crop plants...... Arktrees

We have one black maple and three sugar maples in our lawn. The black maple was purchased from a local nursery here in West Central Minnesota, with the understanding it was a "green mountain" sugar maple. As it was the first maple we had ever planted, we didn't realize that it was different from typical sugar maples until 20 years later when we decided to plant some more sugar maples. Now, 15 years after the sugar maples were planted, we can clearly see the difference between the two species (some experts prefer to call black maple a subspecies of sugar maple). The black maple has much larger leaves that are rather leathery and always look drooped. Initially, we thought that the droopiness was due to its location in a full sun, rather windy spot. But, after 35 years, the droopy leaves are always like that, and they are always leathery too. The large leaf size always receives comments from visitors. Fall coloration probably isn't all that much different than our sugar maples, but I feel the colors have more punch/vividness to them. Also, the leaves hang on much longer than on the sugar maples, having begun to change color at least one week before the sugar maples, and keeping it at least a week longer as well. It is worth noting that the black maple begins to turn color rather slowly and progresses throughout the tree over a span of about 4 weeks. As I write this in mid-October, there are still some green leaves on the north side of the tree's crown, while the vibrant reds and oranges that first appeared on the south side have now been blown off the tree in the past 3 days when 30+ mph winds came through. All of our sugar maples were purchased with the "Green Mountain" tag affixed to them. They have smaller leaves and all seem to turn color about the same time, and rather quickly at that, from green to full orange color in about a week's time. The sugar maples we have have grown much more rapidly than the black maple. The first 10-15 years, the black maple grew very slowly on our yellow clay, well drained soil. After 15 years, it seemed to pick up the pace somewhat, perhaps due to having a well established root system. Then again, it may simply be characteristic of black maple to grow slowly. We have wanted to intentionally purchase another black maple or two to grace some added space we have in our lawn. However, no nurseries have been found that offer it. Strange, as the black maple is an outstanding shade tree! What I have reported is based only on our personal experience with one specimen. Maybe others with black maples would care to offer some of their experiences to this thread as well. DarylJ

To repeat what has been said a number of times before, there are Red Maples (Acer rubrum) in varying cultivars and then there are other cultivars of maples whose leaves turn red in the fall. There are also maples, mostly Japanese maples but other species as well, whose leaves come in red or reddish, some of whose leaves stay red and some turn green. The TRUE Red Maple is the A. rubrum, so called, as far as I know, because the flowers, which are very early before the leaves, are very red, as are the early stages of the samaras. Any other tree, if of another variety of maple (Norway, silver, etc.) MAY have the word red somewhere in its name, or have red leaves all summer or in the fall, but it will NOT BE a Red Maple, although it may be a red-colored maple, for example, the above mentioned Crimson King Norway Maple. Sorry for the lecture, but it's a pet peeve, and so you got the rant....

I'm in zone 5 Ottawa,Canada. Zone 4 for you in the US. They used to say you couldn't grow J.maples around here. But for 20 years I always could, and have never lost any, except 2 variegated ones. I have about 25 varieties, a sort of J. maple forest in my back yard & I am running out of room. Good thing they are dwarf trees, unlike our native maples that grow to 50 ft. I wholesale them from (grown in)BC, zone 7-8. They do not loose hardiness by grafting and propagating in a milder climate. The hardiness is built into the plant. I will say that they can sometimes be slow to establish, and this is the important part. Any tree should be planted early and well cared for in the first season, so it is well established going into it's first winter. I don't believe in bare root trees doing well, too slow to establish, or over wintering in a pot. They should always be planted in the ground and well mulched. I do think they prefer a more acidic soil. Ours is neutral approx. 6-7ph, so I spread sulphur everywhere every couple of years to acidify a little.(I don't like pink hydrangeas, prefer blue) I saw a study once, out of U of Michigan I think, where when they tested plants, and they found that plants growing in acidic soil seemed a little hardier than the same plants growing in more alkaline soils. In the past I have used geo-textile fleece as a winter cover for the first few winters, but snow makes a great insulator as well. I get a bit of tip dieback sometimes, but it doesn't matter since they grow back very well, as if they were pruned. There is a sort of wilt going around in J. maples lately, others have noticed as well. It doesn't hurt the tree, it just attacks some of the newest growing tips as they are finished flushing out in summer....sort of self pruning. We regularly get to minus 22 celcius (-10 far.)here most winters, with minimal problems. Even with last winter, the worst in 20 yrs., there were no losses. The only damage I ever notice is the heavy snow pack in spring, will sometimes crack the weeping types as it weighs them down and melts. Variegated types do seem less hardy, possibly due to the fact that variegation is a mutation and therefore weaker. Red and green types are perfectly hardy. They all seem hardier as they get older. thanks, Rich