Oh yeah, I have lots of thoughts. I happen to have Acer saccharum, saccharinum, and platanoides in a row on the south-southwest side of my house. They are about the same age, approx 50 years old.

I love the Sugar maple, it has a lovely form, beautiful yellow-orange with a tint of red fall color, and the roots are reasonably well behaved for a Maple. I grow a few perennials and some Lilacs under this tree.

I also love Silver maples and agree they are somewhat maligned. But for pretty good reason - they have very gnarly surface roots, they drop branches, and each Spring I get a million samaras all over the front yard and in my gutters. Fall color of mine is unimpressive, the Silver maples next door in the neighbors yards have better color. The reason I like them is because they are a great wildlife tree - the birds love this tree, there are always Nuthatches and Woodpeckers hopping around on it looking for bugs. Also the Baltimore Orioles spend several days in the canopy eating something in the Spring. Chipmunks and Squirrels eat the samaras.

Acer platanoides - bane of my existence! I have FIVE large Norways on my lot, and used to have HUNDREDS of smaller trees ranging from 1 inch and few as large as 8-9 inches. I still have HUNDREDS of those damn little seedlings everywhere. The only thing that is successfully growing under my Norways is Vinca minor!

Two of these large Norways have already been girdled and are close to dead - they are going to be topped and snagged. Two are coming down next week!!

Norway maples are on the prohibited plant list in my state, and for good reason. They are extremely invasive in the Northeast US, and have very aggressive canopies that will outcompete the canopies of mature trees. They can invade and take over a mature woodland. BUT they are an attractive tree and very rugged. Probably a good urban tree.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about with their canopies. In the middle there are a few Pinus resinosa flanked by Norway maples on the left and right. Notice how the canopies of the poor Red pines are being squeezed out by the Norways. I'd much rather have the beautiful Red pines than these awful Norways!

{{gwi:471466}}

I could go on Jakejones, but this is probably more than anyone wanted to read!! :)

Autumn blaze is a Freeman maple (a hybrid between silver and red), and Autumn Glory--October glory?--is a red maple. Red maples have more pure and dark reds in their color mix, which also includes oranges and yellows in the regular species. Sugar maples tend to be more yellow and orange, with some orangy bright reds at times in the parts of the crown that get the most sun. Most of the red maple cultivars you see to me are a bit boring--all a deep red, no variation from one part of the crown to another. I don't really like these when planted in rows, as I see often around here. They are all the same and one part of the crown is just like another. I am going to get more maples, but I think I will go more with seedlings.

Norway maples are just yellow--I like them, but there is the problem of their invasiveness.

--Spruce

Norway maple displaces Sugar Maple in the forest where it gets established. I have seen a pure norway maple forest in maine, and it was so dark in there it was almost like night.

I'm a big fan of maples but norways are no good.
October glory is a great red maple for fall color as it hold the color a long time. It also grows fast for a red maple which usually had a medium rate.

Autmn blaze hyrbid can get more intense color however it does not last long. A week maybe. It "blazes" on by. (Get it?)
They also grow slowly. Not what you would expect from something with silver maple in it.

The species red maples haver nice color but they may need more pruning to take on the shape you would want. Not always.

Sugar maples are very desirable trees however not all cultivars have reliable fall color. Some do better than others with regards to that and also performance in drought and heatwaves. They grow very slowly but can you imagine how overplanted they would be if they grew fast?

Fledgling, I can imagine what you describe. When my buddy cut down the 8 inchers, they had established but smaller canopies. The sun poured in where the Norway canopy used to be. The leaves grow in such thick clumps, they block out the sun. It was this wondrous experience of "Let there be light!" LOL

One of the Norways that's coming down next week has a canopy that is probably 75 feet across. I'm expecting to have huge gaps in my woodland. But I'm going to take advantage of that and make new gardens and plant lots more stuff.

Norway Maple is a beautiful tree in the right situation . . somewhere like southern Norway or central Europe, where it is native. Very nice yellow in flower in late winter, they really brighten up the woods then.

Resin

Here is a link that might be useful:

Extensive planting elsewhere would also be based in part on perception of tree as visually appealing. Here we get quite a bit of orange and red on some trees, personal observations from elsewhere and online photos indicate this is not an isolated phenomenon.

bboy, Siberian elm is extensively planted elsewhere too, and there is a perception by some that Siberian elm tree is visually appealing. Perception does not make it true, but Norway maple does look nice with a dense rounded crown I have never seen it anything better than yellow, but who says yellow is a bad color anyways? It doesnÂt have to be red to be good. I like a good solid orange. No one ever comes around asking for a good tree with solid orange fall colorÂ

Nevertheless, as has been shown again and again, with both people and plants, a pretty face in and of itself means nothing if it crowds out everything else.

Out here Siberian elm is a ubiquitous feature of hardscrabble environments in the intermountain region - and often looks the part. I'm getting wind-blown hair and dust in my eyes just thinking about it.

are you guys waiting for me??... lol ...

IF YOU EVER WANT TO GARDEN UNDER YOUR TREES ...... skip all maples ....

since i like to garden in the shade.. under trees... I HATE MAPLES ...

but they are just fine a few houses away.. down the street .. around the corner... down the block .... on the golf course..in the Arb ... etc ... JUST NOT MY 5 acre slice of heaven ....

all the power to the rest of you .... ken

PS: great fire wood too.. lol

Ah, yes, ken. thanks! I was wondering where you were.

--Spruce

Coloration depends on annual weather variations and geography. Norway maple does not always color at all, since it requires a long mild autumn to turn yellow-- else the leaves fall off green if winter comes fast. It does seem odd to plant this tree in N America when native maples are more attractive.

Red maple does not always (or in my experience, usually) color red. That is why the varieties and cultivars are so popular because they always turn red. These named red maples also seem to be less susceptible to chlorosis than the species.

I'm in an area w/alot of wild Sugar maples (they're not Black maples), and all of them turn a golden yellow w/some reddish tint on the inner leaves. Solid red on S. maples here seems confined to the planted cultivars on lawns & mediums, tho I see an occasional exception standing out on the ridges.

Red maples similarly turned mostly yellow in the forests in SW VA when I was there.

In nurseries and plantings here you see different coloration on red maples right next to each other. A nearby school had one all yellow and one blazing red, in the same row next to the sidewalk. Quite a contrast.

In my part of DC, red maples must have been
all the rage as street trees 60-70 years ago.
I live on what is called a 'Red Maple Allee' street.
Some of the older trees started to come down 10-15 years
ago, due to the hardships of being that large in such
a small tree box. They've been replaced with a
mix of red, sugar (a few norway) and other non-maples
(tulip poplars, london planes, willow oaks). One obvious
thing to note every Fall, is that the older Red maples
tend to have yellow leaf color. Whereas the more recently
planted replacements are all unambiguously RED. I
presume this is a geographical thing. The more recent
trees are likely varieties that are 'reliably' red.

Not sure where Quirckyquercus is but "Autumn Blaze" grows very quickly around here, almost too fast. By the time our guys can get to new ones for their first pruning, they've already grown a great deal and need extensive structural work. Overall good trees. Just wanted to mention this.

+oM

I have Red, Sugar, Black, and Norway Maples. I love the first three and hate Norway. My observations are based on fall color and branching structure. Also, Norways are more prone to storm damage compared to the others.

John

>Not sure where Quirckyquercus is but "Autumn Blaze" grows very quickly around here, almost too fast"The novel and distinctive features of this new variety are considered to be, in combination:

1. The upright habit of growth with good crotch angles.

2. Very rapid growth rate compared to other red maple trees.

3. Tolerance to drought conditions.

4. Pleasing lettuce green summer leaf color and excellent scarlet fall leaf color that persists."

Here is a link that might be useful: United States Patent: PP04864

Can anyone identify the big maple at the side of my garage?
This year, it had some reddish leaves around the last week in October, this view on 11/9, then mostly yellow and now has lost 90% of leaves. The clump of green on the extreme right is a Norway Maple, which is now yellow and losing them quickly.

{{gwi:471467}}

Sugar. Try not to have anymore large, existing branches cut off for awhile. Large trees may be sent into a decline by having a large proportion of their growth pruned away all at once.

I have an old Crimson King Norway maple, this year the fall color is an outstanding, rich gold.

I would not have planted this tree, but am enjoying it very much, including the challenges of growing anything under it, lol.

OK, QQ is 36 miles northeast of downtown Atlanta,ga.

QQ has an autumn blaze maple that was planted by his builder. And also the front of his neighborhood is lined with autumn blazes that have been in the ground for at least 4 years. We're talking 20+ trees

Those are my credentials.

Those trees have not grown as fast as october glory or red maples in my yard or in my neighborhood or other experience.
They are not as densely foliated and the color only lasts a week. About 60 pct of the trees have poor form. (seems to be a pretty common issue with autumn blazes from what I've heard)

In addition, they are the same price as red maple cultivars such as october glory which is a much better tree. It is a polar opposite.

MAybe this isn't the right climate for autumn blaze maples although I never could understand why someone would knowingly buy/plant a red/silver maple hybrid and actually pay a premium price for it.

I don't claim to know it all, this has just been my experience. I don't just copy and paste BS from online nurseries or patent office filings, instead I speak from only what I have experience with. (usually)

Crimson King isn't a Norway. It's a red.

Don't know where you heard that, but Crimson King IS a Norway Maple. Which is called Crimson King Norway Maple (Acer platanoides ÂCrimson KingÂ)

To repeat what has been said a number of times before, there are Red Maples (Acer rubrum) in varying cultivars and then there are other cultivars of maples whose leaves turn red in the fall. There are also maples, mostly Japanese maples but other species as well, whose leaves come in red or reddish, some of whose leaves stay red and some turn green.

The TRUE Red Maple is the A. rubrum, so called, as far as I know, because the flowers, which are very early before the leaves, are very red, as are the early stages of the samaras. Any other tree, if of another variety of maple (Norway, silver, etc.) MAY have the word red somewhere in its name, or have red leaves all summer or in the fall, but it will NOT BE a Red Maple, although it may be a red-colored maple, for example, the above mentioned Crimson King Norway Maple.

Sorry for the lecture, but it's a pet peeve, and so you got the rant....

Does anyone know if the cultivar 'Crimson king' displays the same invasive tendencies as the species? I planted one at my last house (before knowledge of invasive plants), and it seemed to be quite slow growing, much slower than the species growing here.

There are also different varieties of red maple.
var trilobum (I've seen these in this area turn a bright yellow, which can be just as showy as a sugar maple)
var. drummondii (?)
var. rubrum (I pretty sure this is what you are seeing with the named cultivars)

"Does anyone know if the cultivar 'Crimson king' displays the same invasive tendencies as the species?"

Sure why not. Grafted trees like crimson king (which definitely is a norway maple) wouldn't be a crimson king if you had germinated seed from it. It would be whatever you see growing in ditches or taking over the woods.

Since the early 1990's, we've been planting "Autumn Blaze" Freeman maple as a street and park tree. In fact, it was I who brought back the idea from seeing this tree on a seminar at the UW arboretum. By now, this must be several thousand individual trees. In our area of the state, soils are underlain by limestone resulting in a neutral to slightly alkaline pH. Because of this higher soil pH, red (rubrum) maple does not do well here. It grows miserably slow, has chlorotic foliage, and just never amounts to anything. The "Autumn Blaze" on the other hand, grow like, well.......silver maples. That is to say, with great vigor. That's why we grow "Autumn Blaze" here.

+oM

"although it may be a red-colored maple, for example, the above mentioned Crimson King Norway Maple"

'Crimson King' isn't red . . . it's a sort of muddy dark blackish-brown to purplish-black. Rather yukky. Sucks. ;-)

Oh, and yes, it does produce viable seed, it's just that most of its seedlings don't inherit the yukky colours. So consider it invasive wherever Norway Maple is invasive.

Resin

Yes: the "BS" reported - in detail, with actual comparative measurements - by the originator in the patent application would also be based on personal experience. For all we know the trees planted at your site aren't 'Jeffersred' or or being subjected to different cultural conditions than the red maples nearby. Or there is some reason why this hybrid doesn't like it on your site as well as the pure red maples...what you are concluding there in your single location doesn't cancel out the findings and observations of others elsewhere.

Acer rubrum drummondii is southern red maple, featuring bigger and thicker, more deeply lobed etc. leaves, bigger fruits than trees from farther north.

Crimson Red is an Ok street tree though.

Tom, I believe that was the reason autumn blaze is planted also out west, colorado and places like that. I do remember someone saying that red maples wouldn't grow there but the hybrids would.
The OP is in the baltimore, md area I'm relatively certain they wouldn't have the same concerns but I shouldn't have been so definitive.
With that said, now you may begin to see why my experiences have been the opposite. I am curious to know if you've found a lot of them to have a lopsided branch structure?

I wouldn't say lopsided, but crowded branching, poor branch angle (Too narrow) and other assorted ills are common. BUT.....with some attention in their youth to developing good structure, they seem to turn out pretty good.

+oM