Greenlarry, outdoor electrics are highly regulated in the U.K. and running an extension cable to the greenhouse wouldn’t pass muster. You need to get qualified installation or inspection to comply with building regs. All fittings must be waterproof, even inside the greenhouse. Bear in mind too that voltage in the U.K. is twice that in the US.

Once a week seems crazy to me, I usually water almost every day or at least every other day. Rooting cuttings isn't like following a normal conifer watering schedule, where you deeply water and then wait until near drying. Rather, with cuttings you want the media to be consistently moist. So when I water, I'm not flooding the pods, I'm simply doing some light spraying to ensure it's nice and damp, after 1 or 2 days at the most I can see the top of the media changing color to a lighter brown, so I know I need to spray again.

I don't know if that helps, you just have to get a feel for it. The first year I tried to root conifers I had 0 successes...

Oh ive been watering with cups. So I should switch it to spraying now?

Oh really? This is my first year, heck my first time ever trying to grow a plant from cuttings(other than sedums).. But I thought chamaecyparis are very easy to root and beginners suitable..

I'm certainly not expert, but using a sprayer has worked well for me with both seeds and cuttings. After the initial soak of the media, the goal is just to maintain its moisture level, you shouldn't have water running out the bottom of the pods at each watering, a little runoff is ok, but not necessary... just try keeping it moist enough that the peat portion of the media remains dark/damp, if it starts turning a lighter brown it's too dry. For me, especially on heat mat, even with dome it happens every 1 or 2 days.

I think Chamaecyparis is a good choice to start with. Thuja and Juniper, especially horizontalis are also among the easiest conifers to root...but make no mistake... rooting conifers is not like rooting hydrangea or some of these other plants that you can stick in water and have roots 3 weeks later... it takes effort, patience, and practice to get it right.

I see now.. I've been watering it to the point it creates a puddle in the bottom and I wiped it with Tissues everytime. I will start using the spray now. Thanks!

So only 5 are surviving now including the 2 new cuttings I took in February. So that would make it 14 attempted cuttings in total with only 5 alive currently. And I am starting to see some browning on the survivors as well.. I'm pretty sure they are all going to die shortly. I feel like this signals my failure as a gardener, not even being able to root an easily rootable conifer such as a chamaecyparis and I feel very discouraged. Yes my first attempt in propagating a plant from cuttings but I thought chamaecyparis was easy enough for beginners too.

I think I know why though. From last week's conifer grafting workshop I attended, the master grafter told me the right kind of environment for the aftercare is crucial for its survival. She said that they would need to be in a chamber like facility where the humidity will be confined in there. She referred to the aftercare of newly grafted conifers but I assume it applies the same to cuttings as well.

I have a clear plastic bin covering the cuttings in order to create humidity inside but I guess that's not enough. And I don't have a greenhouse or anything. So I have an idea and want some of your opinions. How about I buy a foot or two deep plastic bin, pour some pebbles in then fill with water at surface level, place a plastic box or any stand to place the heating pad on with the cutting tray on it, then close the lid for the bin so the humidity will be trapped inside there created by the water. The humidity level won't be out of control either as the cord for the soil temperature sensor will prevent the lid from completely shutting, so there will be a small opening. Also I will lift the lid once a day to let some fresh air in. Is this a good idea? It's like making my own mini greenhouse. I can start doing this next year for my cuttings since it's too late this year already.

How about this actually. My portable greenhouse. Placed a plastic bin full of pebbled and water below and heat mat with tray of cuttings above it so water evaporates in that direction and provide humidity. Also I took 2 more cuttings today just to see if they will make it even if it might be too late of the season.

that's a lot of space for 5 cuttings. Here's my method.

take two 4-inch pots

fill with a mixture of 40% perlite/40% pumice/20% peat moss

soak the mix until quite saturated

compress the mix down tight

collect cuttings, dip in rooting hormone, start making holes with a chopstick

stick 10-15 cuttings in each put, packing tight along the way

put the pots in a large ziplock bag

put the ziplock bag on a 70°F heat mat

put the heat mat with bags and cuttings in a 45-50°F brightly lit room with no direct sun

after threat of frost, put the bags in a shady place in the yard

don't mess with them until July or August. I crack the bag open now and then, but hardly ever.

see if things have rooted; if they haven't, better luck next year

This stuff moves in geologic time.

don't mess with them until July or August. I crack the bag open now and then, but hardly ever.

You don't need to water them at all??

sealed ziplock. Where's the water going to go?

don't mess with them until July or August. I crack the bag open now and then, but hardly ever.

No oxygen required?

I always understood that plants create oxygen.

Are the plants allowed to touch the sides of the bags?

They do so whether I allow it or not.

Ok I guess One thing I didn't know about propagating conifer cuttings is that they have to be in a tropical environment like treating them as if it was in the jungles of Ecuador. I didn't know they needed that much extreme humidity

@David - Do you treat with fungicide? I do not use any chemicals, but will have issues if I don't provide my grafts and cuttings with fresh air, usually daily, with the exception of the two weeks immediately after grafting. Also, since the grafts are touching the plastic I would think water drops could run down the stem and get into the union, any issues there, or do you seal with parafilm or grafting compound?

I have never had issues with fungus. All of the professional growers in Oregon and Europe that I've consulted with insist on the über-humid tent technique for the month after things are grafted. Some use wax, but that's more important for low-humidity situations.

Also no issues with the graft union getting wet. I don't get what the difference would be between dripping condensation and overhead watering.

Interesting... it's pine adelgid (the white cotton balls) that are the biggest issue if I don't introduce fresh air. But I run 99% humidity with a ultrasonic (diy) humidifier, as well as pumps in the bottom reservoir, so it's extremely humid. I do not open the enclosure for two weeks post grafting, totally sealed, then open to water, but still keep very humid until scions start to push.

The reason I asked is because I never overhead water grafts and I carefully monitor humidity build up. Condensation on the sides is OK, because my plants are not touching the sides, so no chance the condensation can trickle down the tree into the graft union. If condensation forms on the top, I will open and wipe down to ensure no water drips down... That wouldn't be easy/possible with the poly draped directly over the plants.

I actually use parafilm in addition to all of this, to be sure humidity around the graft remains high, but does not get wet. I'm not a great grafter, so every effort with setup for me matters a lot. This setup has yielded pretty decent results in [Past Seasons[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/season-3-grafting-conifer-results-dsvw-vd~4605112)

My current setup (normally in 4 season room), but had to move last week, so they will finish pushing in the basement under artificial light. A lot of my grafts failed this year, because I collected when it was 18 degrees, after a week that never went above freezing... I knew it probably wouldn't yield good results, but went for it anyways...just to see how much of an impact collection temp has... conclusion...It Matters! Many turned brown within a week and dropped needles... looks like a few will make it tho

wow. That's a lot of space for a few plants, too. I've learned what I've learned from guys to do thousands of grafts a season with an extremely good take. It's simply not possible for them to go to extreme measures such as these.

Happy not to have problems with bugs, with the exception of spider mites on Piceas if things get too hot and dry before I kick everything outside.

Yea, I'm just a hobby grafter, I never do more than ~30. Usually, it's just making copies of my own plants or grafting brooms I find. From what I understand, those in Oregon can actually keep their grafts in unheated greenhouses...that must be nice! Here, it's too cold to even keep them in the garage

Well looks like all of the cuttings I took in december are dead. Theres only 3 cuttings left that looks ok as of now and I took all of them in February(2 this past weekend). What am I doing wrong? Was humidity really the issue? Am I just not meant to be a gardener? I feel like a failure not even being able to root such an easily rootable chamaecyparis. Very discouraging

Just a stab in the dark.... and this might sound crazy.... is there any possibility that you accidentially watered your cuttings, after you stuck them, with some of the bleach water you were using for sterilizing?

I know it sounds weird but I've almost did this exact same thing.

What gets me is how fast your cuttings turned brown. This is not normal for conifers. They would have had to be cooked dry, for a period of time, to have otherwise had this happen.

I'm just grasping at straws here... :?

It seems that the problem must either be lack of humidity (or moisture) or temperature.

I could be wrong, but if kept in a proper environment, they should not be brown yet regardless of if they are going to root. How warm is it? Are you giving them enough water?

I'm attempting cuttings this year (mostly dwarf hemlock cuttings). While I don't have great confidence in their success, none of them are brown yet. I mist water them about every 2 days, and have a humidity dome over the trays. The ambient temp is around 60-65 F. Heat mats keep the soil at 72 F. Again, they might well fail, but they haven't browned yet. Including a handful of Thuja.

Don't give up. You must learn from your mistakes to succeed!

Good luck,

Ryan

60-65°F is much too warm IMO. 50-degree tops and 72-degree bottom.

Mr. Heruga. How many cuttings did you put in each pot? How tightly packed is the medium? There is strength in numbers. Last year I visited Iseli nursery while they were in the midst of sticking cuttings. They use shallow flats and spend several minutes tamping down the medium with a stick. They do about 500 cuttings per flat, sticking them about 1/2 inch apart.

My thought is that there is a saturation of rooting hormone with that technique.

Bill, that is impossible. I may be clumsy but not that clumsy. The room temperature is usually at around 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Bottom heat according to the sensor is usually consistent at 68-69 Fahrenheit. But the again I don't know how reliable those sensors are. It had good reviews on it and I use the same one sc77 uses. I put one cutting per each slot(those annual flower trays)

How is it even possible to have high humidity yet cool temperatures? I always thought high humidity is associated with hot temperatures. I don't think the medium is compacted as much, pretty loose I would say. If you put your cuttings sealed in the zip lock wouldn't it make the air temperature hot? If anyone knows a magical trick needed to make air temperature cool yet with high humidity please let me know

Anything that is more or less enclosed will be humid, regardless of temperatures. The enclosure prohibits the free movement of water vapor, arising from the carbon dioxide the plants release through transpiration. Water vapor and condensation = humidity.

Also one should never expect a particularly high rate of success with cuttings (with a few notable plant exceptions). Generally, anything more than 25% rate of survival to rooting is considered a success. That's why it is suggested to take as many cuttings as you can possibly manage.

no no, didn't mean clumsy. I have many bottles all marked as to what's in them but they all look the same. Just a thought...

For some reason that mini greenhouse from that pic I posted gets very hot inside. I suppose its because its right in front of the window and gets a lot of sun. A lot of sun enough for my citrus to be blooming indoors. So I guess I'll move that to a shadier spot in the room and see what happens.. btw not to go too off topic but since you mentioned it, will sedums, hydrangeas, and azaleas be considered a high success rootable plant? I thought they were primarily grown from cuttings so just wondering.

Bill, I actually am sometimes clumsy so it was very possible for me to accidentally use bleach water but I know for sure this time I didn't

Sounds to me too like the heat did it then. You mentioned once that you ran the heat mat with the sensor off to the side, that may have raised temps too.

My basement stays around 59f all winter so I'm working on a way to keep around the plants cooler yet. Don't want the tops to start growing before roots appear...But that's the learning process, next time I'll be more prepared from the get go.

@ Dave O. do you put fert in the conifer cuttings at all? say a little Osmocote? Or wait until later when roots appear?

Oh, and thanks for all the info Dave. It's taken a lot of the mystery out of this. I ordered the book "plant propagators bible" by Miranda Smith, used so got a good price but after I ordered, I noticed it wouldn't be shipped for 3 to 4 weeks so I'm still waiting. :-)

Keep up the good work Heruga! I enjoy reading about your adventures. :)

Bill, there is no reason for any fertilizer in stuck cuttings. The medium has to be pretty much sterile. Remember, just a little peat moss, the rest is minerals: pumice and perlite. We want the hormone to stimulate roots and have them aggressively growing, looking for food.

The rooted cuttings get kicked out of the rooting medium in the fall. I pot them into individual 4-inch pots in my normal conifer potting mix. No Osmocote until the following spring.

So they stay in the bags until fall? That was going to be my next question. :-)

Do the rooted cutting show signs of top growth by then?

Yes, absolutely; Taxus in particular. Almost impossible to hold them back.

I keep them in the bags until like June or July. It no roots by then, try again next year.

A recent CQ article talks about some of the pros using UV light and getting roots within 6 weeks. I might go there next year. I can definitely rig up a large shop light with UV bulbs.

Sounds like a plan!

I sealed mine in bags and am trying to get my ambient temps down further. It may be too late but maintenance using the tent had to end. I'll post an update in my other thread.

Interesting about UV...

Thanks again!

Bill

Oh maybe I know why now... I think they may have been getting too much sunlight. The tray is on a desk right next to a window where my 2 citrus trees get the sun. And my citrus bloomed which means there was a lot of direct sunlight.. Maybe I will put it in a basement where it gets no direct sunlight and rely on the brightness of the room caused by the sunlight

You've (we've) just received full instructions from the President of the ACS.

What more could you (we) hope for? :-))

Best wishes on your next attempt!

Keep us posted.

Bill

^^^ LOL, Bill. You're too kind. I'm just a half step ahead of "hack status" with this stuff. I just have really smart and talented friends to learn from.

Oh no I am going to do everything what David said. I even wrote it down so I could remember it. But one thing... its too late now to take any conifer cuttings right?

I don't think it's too late. I've read on various sites that you can take conifer cuttings from December through February. Link to ACS cutting instructions:

I know it's Feb 28 but as long as you have plenty of material, it should be okay as long as you don't wait much longer.

"I've read on various sites that you can take conifer cuttings from December through February"

Let me rephrase that statement.

" I've read on various sites that best results are achieved when you take conifer cuttings from December through February"

So if you're a little late, no big deal. :)

Well its march now so its too late I guess. Although something interesting happened.. when I took 2 new cuttings last weekend they were bronze colored(winter bronzing) before I stuck it in the medium and in the 'greenhouse' but today when I looked at the cuttings its completely green! Thats funny

I would have taken more cuttings but the tree I have is small and I didn't want to over prune and have possible adverse affects on the tree.

So you just going to wait until next year to do any more then?

Oh wow sorry Bill I never noticed your last comment. But yea I probably will, unless I am allowed to take some over the summer? And btw, all of my cuttings(the last 2) have died as of today. Dave, the 2 cuttings in the ziplock bag had some mold on it when I checked today. You said to just leave it in the bag untouched but then how do you prevent all that intense humidity from causing fungus/mold problems?

if you have mold, the cutting is done. The mold's tendrils are already consuming the plant. This happened to a pot of hemlock cuttings I did this winter. I removed the offending pot from the system. We need the "intense humidity.' Without it, the cuttings will dry out and get really dry and crispy. Dry and crispy cuttings never root.

I don't think a moldy pot or two can be prevented. If cuttings come with mold spores, there's no way of knowing until the mold begins its reproductive stage.

A couple of days ago I removed everything from the zip locks and moved them into an old aquarium and turned off the heat map. The bottom has gravel and a gallon of water. I sealed the top with stretch film. It's still very humid, but there's a bit more air circulation.

Once I decide that the greenhouse is getting too hot, I'll seek out a very shady place in the yard where everything will sit until August. Then I'll see what, if anything rooted.

Everything is as fresh and green as the day I stuck them with some swelling buds and extending scales. I'm hopeful and extremely patient. Remember, his process can take up to a year. In comparison, grafting is virtually "immediate gratification."

Ok so my cuttings needed a bit more air circulation than that. I will try a different method then. But the cuttings did turn Brown. Why is it that all my cuttings turn brown so fast? They were in the basement, at about 50 degrees Fahrenheit. They get some light through the window. Bottom heat was stable at 69 degrees

too dry. Not enough humidity.

"Oh wow sorry Bill I never noticed your last comment. But yea I probably will, unless I am allowed to take some over the summer? "

I'm just beginning to learn about all of this myself so probably not the guy you want to ask about timing but my understanding of when to take conifer cuttings is, Late Fall to Early Spring. That may involve what type of conifer you plan to propagate.

I plan on trying the 'Toothpick method' for my Tsuga cuttings next summer. I also have an opportunity to procure some seed off a large Tsuga canadensis next fall.

That and the Sugar maple seeds I plan on collecting and possibly Norway spruce (if they appear this year). Should keep me busy. :)

Good Luck on your next endeavor!

They were moist when I checked the soil and like I said the humidity was too high to the point it grew mold on it. So there has to be another reason why I'm killing them so fast.

Bill, I guess we are both beginners in propagating conifers. My god I didn't know it was this hard to grow conifers...

'Bill, I guess we are both beginners in propagating conifers. My god I didn't know it was this hard to grow conifers...'

We all have to start somewhere. Don't give up. I think the methods Dave O. gave to us really simplifies things. Next time, I'm going to do mine that way. It will cut down on a lot of the work.

This time, I spent a lot of time checking temperatures and that's because I didn't have a thermostat on my mat, so I used a timer and had to continually check and change the on/off cycles to coincide with what ambient temps were doing. The colder it got outside, the more heat it took to keep 70d bottom heat (remember I'm zone 3 brrr) :) .

Next year I definitely will have a thermostat. I also spent time buying/configuring lighting, next year, I won't have to fool with that. Built myself an insulated rooting chamber, should work just fine 'as is' next year.

And the reading. I must've read certain articles 10x before it totally sunk in, then you have to sort through all the contradictory and incorrect information found on the internet. So yeah, first time around is always the hardest.

Keep us posted on what you do next time, I find it interesting. I still don't know how my stuff will turn out but I'll keep posting on my "Rooting Tsuga Canadensis" thread as things develop. Good Luck! :-)

Hey Dave! When you finally set your tank outside in the shade, is it still sealed? Or do you have it vented by then?

Hi Bill, if the rooting chamber is unsealed before there are roots, the cuttings will dry out and die. I don't check for roots until August. I will, however, periodically crack the seal and check for water.

Kenichi, you've seen dry bread get moldy, right? Fungus is not necessarily caused by being too humid. It's caused by opportunistic fungal spores.