@palimpsest Thank you! It definitely looks like a Batchelder fireplace. I'll have to do some investigating to see if it's genuine. I wish we liked it... I love original, charming elements in homes. Unfortunately, I just can't get past the blueish and pinkish colors, or the art deco style lines. Hopefully someone else will love it and give it a great home! Our house has been updated and added on several times, which makes me feel a little less obligated to keep the older elements that don't fit our style :)

What a charming fireplace! If I were buying that tile, I'd sure want that center piece, too!

I'd store and save the tile, in case a future owner wants to restore the house to its original period/style. Or in case "your" style eventually turns in that direction.

I think this tile is super cool! I vote for leaving it and trying to work off of it.

Oh wow!!! That tile is to DIE FOR. It will be an asset in ANY style room, just like a piece by Tiffany. Have it Pro cleaned and brag about it to every guest you welcome into your home.

Keep in mind that it would be a very meticulous job to remove it in a fashion that it is reusable (and much of it won't be as it was likely "fresh set" back then. You are not "peeling" those off, chances are). Someone would have to really love it to devote the time necessary to reclaim a substantial amount. Definitely try to save the pieces you love. The rest, honestly, can be found in reproductions today. Love it but totally understand the desire to "move on". You are not destroying a total masterpiece so whatever you decide, sleep well with your decision.

if those are vintage Batchelder tiles, some of those decorative pieces can go for $80 a tile. think carefully before tearing that out! Call a salvage company that takes old doors, tiles, millwork, etc, and see if they're interested. they could also tell you if it's the real deal. They used those tiles in the older Craftsman homes so people are always looking for replacements when restoring those.

Or call a vintage tile shop. they may have someone who will come out and remove them.

Do not remove this tile please. Stick some cement board over it and tile away with your new stuff. The people who buy your house someday will appreciate it.

That is a very wonderful fp. Maybe it will grow on you? Do the living room very clean, streamlined and all off-white and let the fp be the (unforgiveable) pop of color.

lets see the rest of the room. what kind of furniture do you have? what if you did the walls in the gray color that's in those tiles? brought in some dark wood, light linen color fabrics, cool lighting,,,etc. would you be able to like the FP?

Wow that tile is beautiful.

Would like to hear what an appraiser or someone knowledgeable about vintage tile has to say. Clearly, your home should reflect what you love, but it would make my knees weak to see someone chip away at that tile, no matter how carefully. If you can't abide by it, Joseph Corlett has the best idea. Please let us know what you decide.

You could decorate around it I suppose by using its neutrals of slate grey or toasty tan. You could if you like have urn lamp in terra cotta color... or denim pillows, etc.

Removing that amazing original arts and crafts period tile will tank the value of your home.

I also vote for carefully covering it with cement board (without nailing through or gluing to the tiles) and then tiling or whatever you want. That fireplace is beautiful and you can give the next owner the unbelievable thrill of discovering it under your tile/cement board.

Yikes! Looks fug to me. Maybe save the tiles if they pop off, but pop them off I would.

I appreciate all the input! Everyone has their own taste, and while I recognize the importance of preserving certain original elements of a home, my husband and I just reallllly dislike the color and style of this tile. I am an artist myself and can appreciate the craftsmanship, but why live with something we really don't like as a centerpiece in our home, ya know? :)

The home was built as a 2 bed, 1 bath single-story brick home in 1940, but is now a 6 bed, 3 bath after two additions (one adding an entire second story with vaulted ceilings)... its selling points are the home size and the amazing neighborhood, so I don't think it's likely that we will "tank the home's value" by updating the fireplace. I would have a totally different perspective if the home still had its original floorpan and/or other preserved original elements that would make it appeal to buyers looking for a charming, historical craftsman home.

I would post pics of the rest of the room (and may take some tomorrow when it's light out). I think the cement board might work well. Hopefully we'll be able to get it to lay flat over the top, since the carved accent tiles stick out a little farther than the rest. How can we attach the cement board without damaging the tiles?

Do what Joseph said. This is way too nice to permanently trash.

The problem is not the fireplace. free your mind of WANTING. people these days replacing classic craftsmanship details with JUNKy trends are ruining vintage mission and bugalow americana daily.

Well said thatsmuchbetter. Removing or covering such an interesting architectural feature with trendy weathered shiplap (which is already out of style) is a mistake. And while the homeowner believes it will not negatively impact the home's value, it certainly will. 5 years from now (or whenever they sell), the new owner will be posting here trying to figure out how to rip it out.

Covering will not have the negative value that removing will. If you really don't like it, cover it up in a way that would let a future owner go back to what should be there.

But document it well first, so that you can show future owners the hidden prize that awaits them.

I don't get how you're supposed to cement board over the surround and hearth without nailing or glueing it some how. This kind of tile is all over the beautiful craftsman homes in Mission Hills, San Diego. Flooring too, which is slightly less hideous than viewed head on. Sorry - ugly then and ugly now.

Wow! Who knew people would be so judgmental about updating tile? Sheesh! In case you didn't read the original question, we are deciding whether to trash the tile or not. Covering/preserving it is a helpful suggestion, but no one is going to convince us to keep it/decorate around it; we simply dislike it (very much). You may think we have terrible taste and that's fine! Not asking opinions on that :) I would love practical advice on how to cover it up without ruining the original GORGEOUS MASTERPIECE fireplace surround so we can cover it with something hideous and tacky that we love ;)

That's nice. It's vintage And vintage is usually cool but, on the other hand New is always better. I probably would cover it but that's you. I've also seen many suggestions to restore or update it. So that's and option! Good luck!

@suzyq53 I'm with you, haha! Thanks for the support :) While I can sorta see it fitting with the Southern California vibe, we live in WA state, so I doubt it's original Batchelder and it feels even more out of place here. I wouldn't mind covering it with cement board if it would save us having to rip it out and allow the ugly tile to be preserved for all the tile purists out there... that would be great! But I agree... tough to see how that would work without damaging it.

1. I have discovered that a lot of people on here don't read the original post very well.

2. I went and looked at your posts of the exterior. It in no way resembles a original vintage house (you purchased it that way). It is a very nice looking house, but not vintage.

3. Don't try to cover it up, just take it out. If you can find a antique or salvage to come get it, good, if not just offer it on facebook or craigslist.

4. Ignore the ones who can't read. Maybe they would like to come take it out. LOL.

5. It is YOUR house. That is why we buy, so that if we want a purple wall, with red stripes, and pink polka dots we can. Not that I'm saying that is what you want. I would probably live with that better, than the current fireplace. It looks to me like it would be on that TV show "Grimm".

6. I think it was very nice of you to think of maybe someone else might want it. You COULD of done a HGTV and sledge hammered it to start!

If you can preserve the three decos, fine. We work in historical homes all the time. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's worth keeping. What you have isn't even a pretty rendition of that style. And we've seen plenty of the "real deal". If you decided to go over it, you need a good pro to reframe around it and install the cement board. Not worth it. Just tear it out and make it your own. Good luck.

The Batchelder firm went out of business in 1932 shortly after finishing their biggest project which was the hotel in Hershey, PA. There were a number of other CA firms that made similar things, so it's probably a different company. 1940 is probably a late installation of something like this.

I dunno. There are a lot of extremely garish combinations of Trenton tile in vestibules in my city,. Taken out of context some of them are quite hideous. On top of this, they are often combined with a non-coordinating encaustic tile floor.

I have pictures of a number extant examples but I won't post them here because I now have to post through Houzz photos.

They are certainly nothing I would install intentionally. But on the other hand I will live in any house a relatively short period of time in the house's lifespan. Lots of people seem to move every seven years or so. If I moved into a house with such a vestibule, I wouldn't take it out. (I've lived in buildings with such and occasionally there would be a push to take out those ugly old vestibules (from 1838-1850) and replace them with some nice square marble from Home Depot (exact words) usually by someone who owns a unit for a few years and moves on.

So, I kind of disagree. It's not your house. It's especially not your house in all caps with exclamation points. Sorry, nothing personal, but I hate it when people write it like that, it makes me want to ignore every other point they might have to make.

If you design it and build it it starts out as your house. If you are the first owner it starts out as your house. If you're the only family who's ever lived in it, its your house If it's an old house and you are paying a mortgate on it for a few years and moving on...maybe not so much, maybe you are just a steward of the house. I see a lot of people taking a scorched earth approach to home renovation and then moving on almost immediately, and a whole lotta things get trashed in the name of ugly only to be replaced by something that will be viewed with the same jaundiced eye in a relatively short period of time.

Honestly I don't like your tile much, except for the smoking chimney tile. But I still don't know that I'd remove it. I'm not sure previous interventions to the house would let me feel like I could take yet one more link to its origins out.

It's a freakin house. 4 walls and all that, not some living organism. If you don't like the tile, and it costs more to preserve than rip it out, rip it out. Good luck - I'm sure whatever you come up with as a replacement will work great for you.

And this was just a run of the mill 19th c. Italian fresco, until someone improved it

If you design it and build it it starts out as your house. If you are
the first owner it starts out as your house. If you're the only family
who's ever lived in it, its your house If it's an old house and you are
paying a mortgate on it for a few years and moving on...maybe not so
much, maybe you are just a steward of the house. I see a lot of people
taking a scorched earth approach to home renovation and then moving on
almost immediately, and a whole lotta things get trashed in the name of
ugly only to be replaced by something that will be viewed with the same
jaundiced eye in a relatively short period of time.

palimpsest thanks for writing this. A few years ago, we saw a house that was in a neighborhood we loved, and it was at a price point we could afford to buy and to renovate. (I live in a city of multi million $ houses) When we saw the house, the house has had 'nothing' done to it except the kitchen that was redone in the 50s or 60s. We did not buy it. It got bought by a 'spec' contractor. All the beautiful things in that house got absolutely trashed. They sold it for a good profit and the people who bought it will never know what the house was like.

This was a 1910/20's house with old growth Douglas fir trim and molding throughout the house. It was a foursquare with a wrap around porch. The porches are rare here and make a distinctly American appearance to the house. It was a really true American architectural style. Unfortunately, in the pacific NW, the wrap around porch made the house too dark and there was not enough natural light. I could not bring myself to say I would take the porch off. That would have butchered the house too much. I loved the house but could not see myself living there.

Every time I think about that house, I am saddened by the savage "rehabbing" the house has endured.

Oh for heaven sakes! No one is talking about savaging an architectural treasure. It is not a historical home. Its an expanded brick house with ugly fireplace tile. A family lives in the house. They bought it. They are not stewards, they are owners. They want to remove the tile and replace it with something they like. No problem. Houses can and do change to reflect their owners and with the times.

How does a house become historical?

I agree, houses can and do change to reflect their owners. They never become historical...and there are plenty of hideous houses to prove your point :-)

Well there are historic districts and homes that are designated as historical homes by local and national historic societies. Also owners can apply for historical status which sometimes gives them benefits, exemptions and obligations. After designation, any subsequent buyers would be bound by the obligations that run with the house. There is generally oversight and restrictions and required approval when making alterations to the house. These historic homes are not designated on age alone; the house has to be in its historic condition. Unlike OPs house that has had two additions. Many times the historical designation is obtained to prevent the home from being condemned and demolished and the purchaser is given certain breaks to encourage them to buy and restore these homes. These homes will almost never comply with current code, even after they are lovingly restored and they will not appeal to most buyers because they are not consistent with current lifestyles, modern taste and comfort.

I know how it works.

That's not what I meant by the question.

Oh goodness; this has become quite the debate! I am thoroughly enjoying it, and can understand each point of view. Wish I could show you all the terrible design decisions that were made throughout the rest of the home, and how far it’s come from its original form. Part of what excited us about buying this home was the opportunity to transform it (it was a foreclosure we purchased at auction and needs a LOT of work thoughout).

We bought our first home 4 years ago at ages 23 and 24. It was on the market for just short of a year and had many "original" elements we thought were distasteful. We bought it at a great price and decided to update it together. Along the way, we learned a lot about homes, gained valuable restoration skills, and created some cherished memories while making the home “our own”. Houzz even published an article about our home! We put the house on the market last fall and after one day, we had 3 offers above asking. We sold with a net profit of about 70k and were pretty astonished!

So all that is to say: we made some big changes from the home's original design that I'm sure would make some of you cringe, BUT we had a great experience doing it, sold it to people who love the updates, and turned enough of a profit that we could afford to buy and renovate our current home, which is in an amazing neighborhood for our kids to grow up in. No regrets!

We will change the fireplace to something we like, enjoy the process of updating it and then enjoy the fireplace. Eventually we'll sell to people who will either like it or change it... good for them! When we do decide to sell, we'll sadly miss out on that buyer looking for a non-craftsman style home with an ugly but perfectly preserved fake Batchelder fireplace. Our loss ;)

I wish houzz had a laughing emoji option rather than just "like"!! Ddavis, thanks for keeping your sense of perspective (and humor) while we all went back and forth with our "advice" regarding your fire place!

Oh, what did you mean? I was trying to point out that when homes do not change to meet current demand and aesthetics, they have to be rescued because no one wants them and no one will put money into them and they become derelict.

Interesting discourse so far, but somewhat off course.

So your original question was whether or not the tile on your fireplace surround was worth salvaging. Guess that no one here has been able to provide you with an answer. Is there someone in your area who has knowledge regarding vintage tile? Perhaps there is a website to which you can post photos of the tile. Or maybe a local historic preservation society can refer you to an individual with expertise which might be helpful.

Good luck....and keep us posted.

Well....haven't you ever seen something SO strange or unusual or ugly that you like it? I love this because it's NOT what you see every day. Sorry for commenting, but it seems a common thing to just throw away that which is old. I know because I used to work in a nursing home. Right....tiles are not people. But maybe we should take more care of the past.

Back to your question, what do you care what happens to it (besides getting a few bucks for it)?

Get out your sledgehammer if that's what makes you happy.

was trying to point out that when homes do not change to meet current demand and aesthetics, they have to be rescued because no one wants them and no one will put money into them and they become derelict.

Gee, thank you so much for clarifying something that has puzzled me for years: why the houses where I live either have all been completely renovated to reflect the fashions of the last ten years or so, or they are abandoned, or they are museums where you have to pay to see them.

Thanks, now I understand. Now I have time to tackle another puzzling problem like how a thermos can tell whether you put something hot or cold in it so it knows what to do next.

It is amazing that people get behind a computer keyboard and spit rude comments to a person that is merely asking for helpful advice. You are being thoughtful in considering salvaging the tile IF it is truly "vintage." Again, consult with a restoration specialist in your area to make that decision. This is your home - it is where you will make special family memories. It needs to reflect "you." Good luck and keep us posted on your efforts!

I think it looks timeless. Try cleaning it up. With those colors / tones - it can compliment a lot of designs.

Echoing a previous poster, I would clean up the fireplace and pick a wall color from the tiles. It could become a show stopper with a little elbow grease.

A crackhead that doesnt have liability insurance to be tooling on a fireplace in someones inhabited home may come give you free labor

Most historic districts in the US (if not all) have absolutely no control over the interior of a historically designated privately owned property, only the exterior, so I wish people would stop talking about saving a particular element inside a house in terms of some historic designation, as if the only time it's worth considering is when the house has a plaque on it. And I am speaking in generalities and concepts here, not about this specific stupid fireplace.

your wish I fear will never come true

Well, at least this thread makes for a change from the usual fracas about painting woodwork LOL.

If you want to keep from damaging it, you make a frame out of plywood around it and attach cement board or drywall or whatever to that.

I like it, you don't and you live there. I'd price out some way to cover it first, keeping in mind that if you use that fireplace, it has to be flame retardant material. Otherwise get someone in to salvage as carefully as those tiles permit.