A kitchen is now the main piece of decorating and signaling in a person's house. You have to marry a messy function with exhibitionism ... hmmm .... something is coming to mind, but I can't put my finger on it.

I used GW to vet my choices, as I said above. I also did many things against the conventional wisdom. I have a MW above my range, however: I have a GE slide-in induction range I love. I would not have purchase an induction range without the knowledge found here on GW. I also have my DW between my sink and range, However: my DW is a Miele, that I love and also would not have found if not for GW. I have a counter height single oven that is across for a peninsula, however: it is an Electrolux that I love due to the turkey cook feature that I never would have used if I had not read how well it worked for GW posters.(it does work really well.) I have more drawers and found people used them for dishes here and I use them for that too. I bought my Schuler cabinets( really medallion) due to the positive reviews here and find their quality above that of my Kraftmaid for less cost. I love the soft close feature and would not have another kitchen without it, also found on GW. I retrofitted a trash pullout and flatware tray in my space, because I knew it was possible due to the help here.

There are many other things in my space that were influenced by the years (literally) I spent researching on GW. My space would have been functional, but it is better due to the information I gleaned here. Researching a whole house remodel is time consuming and at times depressing. I was able to get a really functional space that is also pretty by using this site, and I am grateful for all of the help from both pros and non pros.

When I first posted, I got what I thought were some pretty harsh responses. I don't remember what I asked, but it stopped me from wanting to post plans or photos. I saved that for the end when it was done. My kitchen is relatively small (12x12), I didn't want open concept, and due to the fact that i have 4 doorways in the kitchen, I was limited as to layout. What I did find tremendously helpful though, was reading questions and responses that others wrote, and also the responses that I got when I asked very specific questions. I found answers less snarky as I went on, got used to peoples writing styles, etc, but I do think that for first time posters, some of the responses can be pretty discouraging. I don't care really what others think about what I decide to do, as I have pretty strong opinions of what I want, but there is a lot of expertise here and that really helped me find options that I wasn't aware of. Induction wasn't really on my radar, but I was intrigued by what I read and investigated it and decided to go that route. I never thought of back painted glass backsplash, but got the idea from reading here, and LOVE it. And also got my backsplash fabricator from another member here. I also discovered my sink on here, I had been looking and couldn't really find the size I needed. So in the end, it has been very helpful for narrowing down my choices, adding new ideas to the mix, but I didn't really use it for my main direction. I am grateful for all the people that asked and answered my questions or others questions, because it all helped. I also appreciate all of the people who took a moment to compliment me on my finished kitchen when I did post photos.

I used it to canvas people's experiences with various appliances and materials and suppliers. I didn't use it at all for layout help as we had already designed something which worked well for us and our situation.

In general I am impressed by how much time some people put into other's layouts. I think it is likely valuable for those who ask for it. However I think many are much too quick to bash layouts when they aren't asked to, and have little understanding of the compromises people make or are comfortable with. There is definitely, imo, too much reliance on 'rules' which are in fact guidelines, and are not appropriate in many if not most situations.

The nice thing, though, is that when someone presents their finished product, even the naysayers either keep quiet or lend support.

Wow.

I wonder if those who receive suggestions contrary to what they want to do in their heads, find those suggestions to be "negative." Hmm.

Quoting The Nanny:
"I had to go to 20 fortune tellers until the last one told me I was going to go on a cruise."

I ask a lot of questions.
I do things that I want, sometimes actually getting the method to accomplish my plan with the obstacles presented.

For example, I had an opportunity to put brick on the front of my house. It was slapped down with all kinds of "cons." Ironically, those posters were trying to be helpful, probably preventing a moisture and safety disaster. Which I understood completely. Maybe having been around GW for 13 years says something about GW's integration into my thought processes. Those cons gave me the information to ask the right questions, and to hire the person that knew what was required.

The brick on the front of my house was finished 2 weeks ago. I'm now saving for the next side. I ABSOLUTELY love it and know it was done well. (And by a pro, not me. There is no do-over with brick if I Eff it up.)

GW hasn't really influenced my kitchen decisions. I was planning and building drawers before they were a Thing. I had already purchased UCL. I knew I wanted ceiling height cabs, soapstone, and a kegerator. (Still working on installing that. I like beer.) I did choose a counter-height window over my kitchen sink, which was unheard of even by my wonderful fabricator. But I'm innovative with them, too. Sometime I'll tell you about my MBR.

What GW influences me with is information. Info to make good choices. Far-sighted decisions, whereas I know in the past (read: before ex- became an ex-) I was pushed into making decisions before I had all the info. I'm still dealing with light switches and doorways too close to other things to put up molding and trim. And a wall oven. I would have loved a wall oven. Anyway...

Ok. 'nuff. Need my espresso. And my Reese's. Off to work!

Cefreeman, I don’t think that it’s that they suggest something different ( at least for me it wasn’t) it was all about tone. Condescending, making people feel stupid. I now think that many people don’t mean everything the way it ends up sounding,so I try to ignore tone, but it would be nice if people would try to remember that for many, it’s the first time doing this, and we don’t know everything. If we did, we wouldn’t need to come here.

What a fantastic thread; no time to read it all now but I am really looking forward to it. Like kaismom I came here about 6-7 years ago - lucked into it really, and came from a place of zero knowledge and zero interest, really, in design. But I had a gutted house and a need for a kitchen and it was obvious all the folks around me weren't going to do this and I just had to bite the bullet. It was really, really hard, I had no money for fancy designers and I learned so much that it literally changed my life in weird tangential ways all around.

Letting mean comments get to you is partly a function of our own internal psychology, probably. Clearly meanness is in the mind of the beholder, sometimes, to some extent, so that if another doesn't feel it doesn't mean it isn't felt. By the same token, taking the advice in the spirit in which it is offered: free, available if desired, utterly without an existential ripple if not, seems sensible.

I have the best kitchen I have ever seen, and it fits me like a glove. Cleanup time in it is sliced by probably 60% or more (something rarely talked about here I think; the ongoing time-savings downstream of a well-designed kitchen, particularly regarding cleanup). There are a couple things I would do differently, but only a couple small ones. Well, some are not small ... but nothing at all that puts a stutter in my day (after getting over the annoyance of a mistake, any mistake).

I think GW is communality its best. But like everything, there's a learning curve to use it too, both posting, advising, and learning.

I had let the space go too in part because I didn't like the increased commercialism after The Change. However I see so many stuck it out or returned and that, too, is just -- more than heart-warming, it makes me proud of random fellow citizens out there I don't know -- the urge and reality of giving is a marvelous thing to behold. Thank you all. You're really inspirational in more ways than one.

BTW, this notion of a prevalent GW-aesthetic and dogma isn't new; it was recognized and talked about all along. I think one piece of the learning curve is to stick around long enough for that to sink in and to gain the confidence to do what you're sure is right for you regardless. To listen, hear and then evaluate. That actually takes time.

Seven years later I know a month never passes when I don't reflect grateful on GW. It's probably more frequent than that.

I am very grateful to have found GW, and it has influenced me greatly. Both about things to buy/what not to buy and what to do/what not to do, neat gizmos, cool storage ideas, etc. But if I listed specifics, I'm sure many on here would disagree, as my decisions (as some others) are not driven by the prevailing opinions of GW, but rather are driven by how I personally work, and what personally works for me.

I will name one example though, as I've already done threads on it. Corian. Most everyone hates it, thinks it's "plasticky" (hey, it is!) and feel it's SO outdated. Yet, from reading all the unfortunate tales of life with all the "desirable" counters, I knew Corian was for me. Why? Because it will afford me the least amount of grief, and because I don't follow trends.

Cefreeman, I don’t think that it’s that they suggest something different ( at least for me it wasn’t) it was all about tone. Condescending, making people feel stupid. I now think that many people don’t mean everything the way it ends up sounding,so I try to ignore tone, but it would be nice if people would try to remember that for many, it’s the first time doing this, and we don’t know everything. If we did, we wouldn’t need to come here.

Bingo. I have watched people come here and then turn right around and leave because of the tone being used, and for being literally badgered into accepting given ideas. Also, people don't stick to the topic at hand. They want to veer off into areas the poster did not ask about. This has caused much heartache and grief for posters (including me). I watched one gal come here and ask about something, I honestly forget what. Many started offering advice about something she didn't want to talk about, she even said, I'm not interested in discussing that. But the "helpers" here just kept it up, with one finally saying. "Well, you can lead a horse to water....". That gal left in a hurry. I would too.

As I said in another thread just recently, this is a great site with some wonderfully helpful people. But some aren't so helpful, and it's a real detriment to this site. :/

Remodeling has changed me by making me perpetually tired and achy. And by making my house a disaster that I can't keep up with. I also notice *every single time* there is a kitchen with glazed brick on tv or in movies

Like others, GW has opened my eyes to materials and kitchen design guidelines I wouldn't have known about otherwise. It has helped me eliminate wants that just didn't work. And realize that with a 5' aisle that's the main traffic from the back door to the living room, yes, I do need a landing area for the oven and fridge wall

I don't comment on much, though. My KD skills fall well below a notable few here. I've been contradicted lots of times and even laughed at, so if I have something I might like to say, I run it through a "value added" filter, and usually pass.

"I wonder if those who receive suggestions contrary to what they want to
do in their heads, find those suggestions to be "negative." Hmm."

No, I think most people would find them (and the phrasing) negative:

"Your hood is by far the least of your concerns. The first is that open burn hazard with the race track around it."

"That is a dangerous and inefficiently designed kitchen."

"This kitchen layout is poorly thought out you will wear yourself out just getting dinner ready with the long walk from the fridge to the sink"

"IMO a range in this island is a poor choice the walkway is not wide enough "

"The aisles are too small and the island blocks everything......That layout has to change!"

What I asked for was suggestions regarding a range hood, but I got SO much more. Both negative and unrelated to my question!

I did not change the layout, and I love it.

Yikes, Toronto, I could see how off-putting that unsolicited feedback would have been. I hope there was some useful advice in the mix.

Toronto came up against Sophie.

'Remodeling has changed me by making me perpetually tired and achy. "-YES!!!!

took from me like 5 years in how I look and how I feel

I really can see the photos of me and DH as "before" and "after" lol

(kids and MIL emerged as pretty as they were. probably due to them not being involved in that idiotic endeavor even though of course we did it for them as many do.."We did it for the kids". Lol. )

but. I think I'm falling down the rabbit hole of the houses anyway..

can't stop.

My kitchen was almost finished by the time I found GW. Thus it's not a "GW kitchen" It's just mine. (and I'm pretty pleased with it too.)

Yet I started reading here-several forums at once-and became hooked.

I couldn't agree more with palimpsest on "I think GW in general is a congenial place compared to internet forums at large, many of which I think are platforms for various forms of social pathology to run unchecked."

Of course there are unpleasant moments. But general level of discussions is like that good man that's hard to find(c).

So I'll continue to be hooked until I can.

And yes I'm amazed with many's expertise, capabilities, and generous sharing. I don't understand many things, technical terms etc. Yet I continue to read since I learn..and even if beyond my abilities-well then I just admire. I love when people know what I don't know, and can do what I can not do.

One more thing. I'm a person who writes. Unfortunately. From time to time. (And reads. LOL). Writing here, as insignificant as it is, saves me from writing in many other places. And I think both me and other people are better for that.

I've found there to be a mix of insightful advice from those that actually read the OP's concerns and preference and seek to help that person, and a lot of "one size fits all" advice...which, amusingly, is frequently neither relevant or helpful. Most of us aren't short order cooks so some "principles" don't reflect our own and our family's styles of cooking and overall use of the space

For example, do you really open the fridge most when cooking or if you actually counted, is that door opened many more times to get drinks, condiments, etc for breakfast, snacks and with dinner? So maybe that "optimal location" makes sense for a cooking room but not for what is now a living space with a cooking zone ?

I've also noticed what isn't there: the balance between utility and aesthetics and a sense of the space: where is the light? Can you get a cross breeze? What does the space open into? What are the sight lines? What about views?

I found GW when we remodeled our kitchen in 2003 and came back when we remodeled 10 months ago. I am very grateful for all the advice and encouragement I received here! I have learned so much from endless hours spent reading absolutely everything. This site introduced me to products and ideas that I might not have considered. I never would have learned about soapstone, Rachiele sinks or the awesomeness of a CSO, which are my favorite things in my kitchen. There was some advice I ended up not using, specifically a prep sink and a one-level island. I knew we needed to sit at table height so I adapted my design accordingly. I would have loved a prep sink, but I needed the prep space more. I never felt belittled, pressured or insulted, even if I didn't agree with something. At the end of the day it's my kitchen, which may or may not appeal to anyone else, but is all the better with the help from this forum.

I can find out why things don't work. I think that's the most valuable thing to me.

I'm getting a downdraft where I could have a hood. I don't want to. It's that simple. All the modern ones look dated to me--or silly. Thanks to GW, I know that everyone with Broan downdraft hoods think they stink and that I need 18" height for really good performance. :)

The biggest discovery was The Galley sink. I have been waiting for that think all my life. I'm getting a knockoff, but I can't wait!

I'm not actually going to post my plans before I build. I've been here about 15 years, offand on. I know the problems with my plan--but they're dictated by the constraints of my space. Something's gotta give. And I'm happy with the compromises.

The WORST part of my design is actually something most GWers don't believe in--that is, the only place for the refrigerator and freezer is near the cooking but away from the eating/other people/traffic area. Bad trade. I do have room for an under counter fridge near the table, but after dealing with several, I discovered that physics means they suck. Ideally, you would put stuff in there for snacks, breakfast, etc, so they would be where the whole family grabs food from the most. But because they're small, they warm up really easily when the door is opened, and when they're opened a lot,?you lose several days of storage before food goes bad because the food is constantly getting warm no matter how fast the compressor cools it off again. So no second fridge. :(

It's my personal belief that recirculating vent hoods are just stupid. ;) If it doesn't remove steam and barely filters anything, I would rather go without.

The real reason that everyone wants an island is because they want an eat in kitchen again but that's "dated." ;)

GW makes me sick to death of trends before many people are aware of them. I can still appreciate a nice kitchen in those styles, but I don't want them in my house.

Palimpsest--36" inch minimum for prep space is my fault. Lol. My early cooking years were spent in many different rentals, making many different things work. I have cooked in an original 1920s kitchen. Only the stove and fridge were newer.

It sucked, btw.

My smallest kitchen was 4' on one wall and fridge on the wall behind. That was a 24" gas stove next to a 24" lower and upper cabinet. The microwave went on the cabinet. I got a dresser to prep on!

So because of that, I used to tell people that 24" is absolutely the minimum prep space to prepare a meal but is highly annoying. 36" continuous is generally sufficient for most family cooks preparing most meals. And increasing space up to 5' makes it even easier. At 5', you can have two cooks pretty comfortably and at 6' they're very comfortable. But beyond 5' for one person stops being prep space and starts being staging areas because it's beyond easy reach with a step/lean.

I never meant that you can't have a kitchen without 36" countertop. Only that you should try to get 36" of continuous countertop if your space can possibly support it and you have intentions to really use it for cooking, and pushing that up to 4-5' is better still. Lots of people used to come in with builder plans with enormous kitchens and no more than 2' of counter anywhere.

Within a few years, lots of people were just saying "3' minimum" without any nuance. It's good to keep in mind, but it's not always possible.

That said, that's one thing this remodel DOES have a lot of room for, thank goodness. I will have 4 stretches of counter 4' or longer and a galley sink.

"The Galley sink"

That illustrates one of the best things about these forums - learning new options. I'd never heard of a "Galley sink" until just now. Just like I'd never heard of microwave drawers before these forums either (probably, in part, because I don't have a microwave).

Palimpsest--36" inch minimum for prep space is my fault

Oh, I don't think you should shoulder the blame for this...

There are lots of NKBA guidelines and recommendations, and I think that the focus gets put on the word minimum more than recommended, or guideline.

So when someone is pushing a limit here or ignoring a guideline for whatever reason someone or many ones pipe up with it's the minimimum, the minimum! The MINIMUM!!!

and of course I want to say "It's the recommended guideline, the recommended guideline, the RECOMMENDED GUIDELINE!!!"

And then the trump card gets played " I don't think....CODE....will allow you to do that"

International Residential Code is surprisingly mum on a number of things that get attributed to it. I am not overly conversant with the code off the top of my head, and I do realize that local codes vary and may be more stringent...

But I am not aware that Code requires you to have any countertops at all, for example. As far as I know you could have a free standing range, a refrigerator and a sink with no set down space on either side of it and you would be compliant. Local codes may vary. It would be horrible to have a kitchen like that, but I don't know that it would be breaking the rules in a lot of locations. That said, if you have a cooktop mounted in a counter, there are Codes for fire safety and clearances. And some codes say "Follow the Manufacturer's requirements" and manufacturers say "You must meet local code requirements"

But the clearance Requirements are not the same as the NKBA minimum recommended Set Down requirements for each side of a cooking surface: the guidelines for set down space recommended much more generous clearances than those required by Codes or the manufacturer. But these sorts of two-different-things get combined into one requirement and parroted over and over as some sort of rigid unbreakable law.

Where GW influenced me: I put in many drawers in my lowers rather than cabinets. (Unfortunately I didn't convince my GC/carpenter to do as many as you guys convinced me to do during the period of time I was also a 11-hour-per-day employee, but I have enough that I'm 90% happy on them). I also added splash space behind my peninsula sink for obvious (that I thought about it after ) splashing. I actually modified a bit of the rest of the house from Kitchen commentators. When I got here, I had already set up the external log, window and door logisitics, and those could not be changed, since the logs from the kit were being milled at that point. I got invaluable help to make the interior far better than I'd thought. I also went with induction due to feedback here.

No, I did not do everything suggested. My dining room is narrower than ideal from the thoughts then, but that is because the dining table is 36 inches wide, pre-exisiting. It does have two nice leaves that will extend length.

I did make the guest bedroom smaller, but not as small as suggested, because that room has two book cases, with books. AND a pre-existing wood dresser inherited from the family (Okay, I LIKE wood. Always have, always will...) Everything I want in there fits precisely! Had I made this room the suggested smaller, it would not have worked at all.

I did not switch to an island in the kitchen, but kept a peninsula going. I am actually glad for that.

But I have to say: I am tremendously grateful for ALL the feedback. Even the suggestions I did not take, because even those suggestions made me think, and perhaps re-consider, plans. These helped me know what I was thinking, and yes, to change where is was indeed the best plan to change pre-concieved ideas to things that could well work better. (I just wish carpenter/GC were more on board with the drawers...)

I love the setup in the kitchen, and the induction range, and discussions on ADA accessibility throughout.

I do not think "influenced" would be the word "I" would use. Many folks on here would hate my kitchen due to the "barrier island", in fact...I stopped posting photos because all I got were ideas of how I could redesign it.. lol.

I think the most "I" get out of Houzz, and you folks, is it helped )s) me think of "what-if's" and not be afraid to try something.

Due to our place taking so long to build, we were able to take a step back and ask ourselves what we would do if we had been in the house for 20 years and wanted to remodel it. Then we took what we learned here, and made as many changes as we could afford ;)

I think it (this site) also opened my eyes to things I never would have looked at, for instance I would never have known about Capital or the Culinarian or Eurostoves, if not for this site.

R

Thanks to my 4 years here, I enjoy looking at the most expensive house listings in my area, and judging the kitchens. Most come up ridiculously short. I gloat a bit about the wonderful kitchen in my modest home - and I am sad that more folks don't understand the basics of kitchen design (and drawers!)

My in-laws just purchased a million dollar spec home. While the kitchen is very pretty, there is not a single base drawer cabinet, the microwave is on a shelf in a base cabinet, several upper doors swing the wrong way (like away from natural dishwasher unloading location), and in several spots cabinet doors swing and hit adjacent cabinets. I would have noticed this stuff before purchasing the house, but I don't think they gave a second thought.

I was a reluctant remodeler. We redid the kitchen because of a leak. I hadn't planned or pulled inspiration photos before it was time to get started. As a general matter, I have very little interest in decorating. I'd rather have a root canal than choose countertops. But my neighbor mentioned GardenWeb so I came to learn. I learned the most by reading discussions on other people's posts. Some of my favorites were thoughtful comments on the reasons for a single bowl v. a double bowl sink. (I had always liked my double bowl because I don't like drying racks on the counter. I learned from someone that they were able to use a drying rack in their single bowl. So I took a leap of faith and got the single bowl. It has been super awesome and I am glad I did it.)

I also loved learning about the fascination with drawers, even though I decided that for my purposes, a mix of drawers and cabinets was best. (As it turns out, I don't even use all of my drawers, but that is partly due to the massive purge when I packed up the kitchen.)

I also like seeing the small details in people's reveals. Somebody recently posted their stool hanging nicely on the door under the sink. I liked it so much I ordered my own that very day.

With respect to layout, where people tend to have the most opinions, I found it interesting to read what people think/recommend/etc., but I broke one big rule -- cooktop in island. I had lived in my house for 13 years before a leak necessitated a kitchen redo and not once in all those years had the island cooktop/downdraft bothered me. I actually really liked the layout of my kitchen and didn't see the benefits of changing it. Although we eat most meals at home, we have pretty simple tastes so I guess I am a simple cook. We are also vegetarians so don't really have much grease to worry about. When I posted a question about backsplashes, I did get feedback that I had to get the cooktop off of the island. I was amazed at how much time some people spent suggesting new layouts. Interestingly, my neighbor with the same floorplan had recently redone her kitchen with one of the exact floorpans recommended on this site. (And my neighbor designs model homes and sells kitchen cabinets for a living!) I went to her house and cooked a meal. There were sacrifices that had to be made to move the cooktop off the island and they were not worth it to me.

The feedback I got when I asked about backsplash options was very helpful, particularly from those who took the time to post photos of their backsplashes and from those who gathered photos of my countertop with different types of backsplashes and pointed out the difference in how they looked. In the end, I tried to use Fireclay hydrangea for my backsplash, only to learn that Fireclay discontinued their glass tiles three days before I tried to place my order. :-(

I guess one disappointing part of GardenWeb is that I learned my countertop is very common. I selected White Macaubas quartzite before I ever came to this site. I had never seen it in a house before. Now I realize it has been quite popular for a while and one day people will look at my kitchen and say so 20-teens because of the countertop!! I also was surprised to learn that my kitchen is "small." I guess it is all relative, but I always thought of my kitchen as "nice-sized."

Another positive thing that came out of GardenWeb (not totally related to kitchens) is that I gained confidence to do some (very small) DIY projects. I am not the most handy person, and I am never going to install my own tile or cabinets, but I did finally paint the gold trim on my fireplace doors and build a countertop in my laundry room.

Dmpsd, if you are willing to share the source of your step stool that fits under your sink, I might need to order it right now!

I was arguing for 36" --when possible--before NKBA updated their guidelines.

Wow. I feel old!

I THINK that cooktops in 24" deep islands are now against code pretty much everywhere. And code does demand either a vent hood or an operable window. But there's not much else other than minimum clearances to combustible objects with open flame, vis a vis layout. There is a TON related to electricity now, though--which most people here have wrong for some reason. And of course plumbing.

I think some local codes require 12" on either side of a stove (so people can't knock stuff off).

I did actually cook in a kitchen with a range surrounded by absolutely nothing for one summer!!! That was the 1920s kitchen. If the range had been a 1920s monstrosity, it would have been fine, but it was a 1960s 30" and that was dreadful.

(Btw, my gardenweb account was so old that it had a 4-letter password. I got permanently locked out at the switch and just left for a long time because of that. I'd had a houzz account for a while by then.)

I posted a lot of possible kitchen plans back then. My first remodel got me some great ideas. This one, though, is just a hard space, and I had soooo much else to rebuild in the house that I would throw out ideas occasionally but none really resonated with me. Some of my plans were terrible. Some were good but unnecessarily large and expensive. The strong geometry of the space is very bossy. My recent revelation about several things (including ditching the hood) means an incredibly usable kitchen in much less space.

Ruvati makes the cheapest 2 tier Galley knock offs that I can find, for this similarly inspired. Under $1k on wayfair. You can just use a cheap jigsaw and half pans and cutting boards from webstaurant store to get whatever prep setup your little heart desires. :)

The real question is...what about TAPMASTERS. Lol.

Salex, i got a stool like that at Home Goods. It's my closet stool. :)

Well, you almost got 1 out of 3 "codes" right, but even without a window, a "hood" is not required. "Kitchen" ventilation is required that does not have to be anywhere near the range/ cooktop.

Sorry! I should have said "ventilation," not "hood" specifically. ;)

Do you know when I hated that my hood died the most? That time i burned homemade Chinese chili oil. (Not fire-burn Burn-burn.)

I basically tear gassed my own house. I didn't realize dried peppers were so delicate.

Windows arent enough for that. My husband made fun of me for a long time after that!

My vent hood wasn't installed to code because it was less than 24" off the stovetop. So that's why I didn't replace it--I literally couldn't see into tall pots with it there.

I just checked the international building code, and it does have distance to combustible surfaces as part of its rules for stoves. So I don't know how that's wrong. (My old kitchen also isn't to code there.)

My last residence had the 12" of counter requirements with the stove, so it does exist some places. Don't know how common it is, but it was mentioned on inspection that we did have that because it was required. It would have been required for a cooktop in an island, too. It can't be universal because I've seen recent very high end remodels without it. I find it terrifying that someone could brush a pot of boiling water off a stove with an errant elbow, but it was clearly okay legally there.

The differences in plumbing requirements in different areas give me reoccurring nightmares. I just can't make sense of them. So I don't. Once i get a good plumber, I make him design everything to the local code. ;) I ask where my vent options are and design off that.

Electrical at least makes sense. I get electrical.

Most range/cooktop requirements get taken out of context. There are distances to side walls that often have a countertop between them (this varies greatly by model), and distances to rear walls for when a backguard is not used that is often depicted on the drawing in the installation instructions to look like an overhang on an island. There are also "recommendations" in the installation instructions, but they are not "code". Many of the rangetop installation instructions have been written to be deliberately confusing in the past in order to be able to "sell" what people want even though it did not meet UL standards. There are also specific cooktop requirements for counter on each side in an island due to how it is set in the top, but that is not a blanket "code" requirement. You can still put a freestanding range in the middle of a wall with nothing on either side. Other requirements are only due to what makes a cabinet and counter next to a range stable, such as a 3" end panel would just flop around if it was not attached to something else, but a cooktop cut into the middle of the counter (not cutting the front edge out) would be over a full cabinet, and extra support is not necessary. But, that is not a code per say where every cooktop or range needs the same 12".

Here is the under sink stool:

https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Foldable-Step-Stool-Red/dp/B00AU63TIY

Sales, I have the same stool, think I got it at the container store, but you can get it online. It’s wonderful, extremely light and small. It’s tall enough that I can reach most of the stuff I use frequently. Still have to use a larger stool for things further npback on the top shelf. It’s so small and light that I don’t mind at all getting it out to use. I have mine in my sink cabinet.

They seem to always have that stool at homegoods, marshalls and tj maxx too. I got a taller one for the kids bathroom, but of course it never gets put away. I'm planning to get a small one for the kitchen. It's the hangers I'm interested in!

I ordered both the stool and hooks from Amazon. The links are below. The stool comes in different sizes. I got the 11-inch, but the larger size would have also fit on the door under the sink.

Jeronic 11-Inch Folding Step Stool Holds up to 300 lb

KAERSI Bathroom 3M Self Adhesive Hook for Towel and Robe, Brushed Stainless Steel, 4-pieces

Dagnabit! I hate you for finding a better price than me!

laugh! :P

Ordering now.. bam!

I think Russ' comment pretty well answers the posted topic question, lol.

Anybody that wants one better jump on it soon. There's a precedent for something mentioned here running out on amazon, though I can't recall what it was. Towelephant maybe? I've ordered the hooks.

The step stool hung inside the sink cabinet door may have been from my kitchen reveal. This is the one I linked to: Jeronic 11-Inch Plastic Folding Step Stool, Black. There are a lot of these types of stools available from a host of different sources, though.

I don't think you can put a gas stove next to shiplap on the right/left side with zero clearance, code-wise. It may not be in the kitchen section, but there are now requirements about combustible materials and things that cancombust them!

Local requirements/code additions sometimes specify buffers between stovetops and empty space. You're right that it's not in any major code, though.

"stove next to shiplap on the right/left side" - That is covered by;

It is not the same for every rangetop. Just because you saw one that required 12", does not mean that 12" is the "code" some may only be 3", and many 6".

"there are now requirements about combustible materials" - It has always been that way. ALL CLEARANCES listed are to combustible materials. Clearances from NONcombustible materials are not even part of the ANSI Z21.1 scope and are not certified by UL or CSA.

Meaning that it makes no difference if you put shiplap or tile on a wood framed wall as long as you follow the same required distance in the installation instructions for both. You can not go any closer with tile.

"Local requirements/code additions sometimes specify buffers between stovetops and empty space." - The Hail Mary of GW. First, that kind of thing has been determined to be a civil rights violation. Second, there is absolutely no tangible evidence to even remotely suggest that it is any more dangerous to approach a stove from north east or west, rather than south. Different cooktops even have the controls located on the front, back, sides, and middle because it is not a "thing" for anybody but worrywarts.

There are actually 3 threads going right now that are all pinging similar notes in my brain -- this one, the one on the NYT "Personality Kitchens," and Nosoccermom's thread on GW "Corruption."

I was here a lot in the early 00s (for the higher-end kitchens, cherry + granite/soapstone vs the One True Kitchen's white vintage cabs + soapstone and farm sink) and am back around now.

GW has educated, "corrupted," jaded, and sharpened me.

• I've had champagne taste on a beer budget since my pre-teen years, so GW doesn't help that. Like uber-volunteer/former Pres Carter, there's lots of lust in my heart.

• I've seen kitchens at both ends of the budget spectrum that I love, and some I'd take from Blum glides to BlueStars. [J/k...I now have a low-end induction range.]

• I've seen so many ideas to steal, and have passed those on to others at times. Hope to use a few myself if this reno gets off the ground!

• I've seen highly functional, technically attractive kitchens that I'd pass on.

Most importantly -- but also in a way most terrifying -- I've learned people are SO SO INDIVIDUAL about how they like to cook and eat and entertain. And that's leaving the visual choices out of it. ;)

Because of that, I feel *my* particular quirks/preferences/potential examined tradeoffs are fine. Don't know that they'll make it through the compromise phase with Mr Vix if we move forward, but I still feel like GW *has* shown the triumph of individuality over a Paint by Numbers kitchen.

And though I'm in very preliminary discussions with an excellent, creative cabinet artisan I can tell I will need that GW-in-the-background murmur should we proceed with his KD. Because while I'm happy enough to hear and consider what MOST people do when it comes to XYZ [most of which I already know from reading GW archives], I really don't care!

Fred--I can guarantee that all gas and electric stoves don't allow you to place them flush against combustible cabinetry. That's in my current house. 3", 6", or 12"--it ain't ever 0". That is exactly my point.

If you are cooking, then you are standing IN FRONT of a stove, blocking it from passersby. You also turn pan and pot handles where they can't be brushed off from in front. A stove with nothing to one side, with that side facing a major traffic area, is very, very dangerous in a way that a clear space in front of the stove is not. When you turn the handle of a skillet, it may have no place to go but dangling off the side.

I've got a friend who was permanently scarred by boiling water from a stove. This isn't a distant, theoretical concern but a major reason for serious household burns. Stoves should be treated with respect.

I would suggest that a GC who installs a setup like this and a designer who plans it are exposing themselves to serious liability, even if the inspector passes it off.

Having requirements beyond a universal code isn't a civil rights issue. I can't build a 10' wall in front of my house in the city if I wanted. All kinds of rules restrict how you use your property, like it or not

Please stop with your guarantees, and trying to convince me that you know the difference between a code and a recommendation...because you do not. Most electric ranges are approved for zero clearance. Your belligerent attitude is just proving the problem people have with the kitchen forum. Read responses above.

.

The NFPA and other organizations have thoroughly researched this, and their conclusion is that one person's clumsiness does not make a need for a "code".

Fred - just do whatever you like and, like you said, it will be fine. Don't worry about code warriors.

Toronto Veterinarian - I think those quotes may have been from a different forum. The Houzz Design Dilemma forum maybe? All I see regarding your layout in the kitchen forum is a lot of work offered up by Buehl.

I found GW when we were in the process of doing a whole house gut renovation and selling the previous house. I learned so much here! I finally knew why I hated my old kitchen even though I had designed it with lots of pretty and pricey things. (The fridge was too far from sink, range was between fridge and sink, dishwasher was in primary prep area, and more.) Gardenweb guided me to a very efficient use of my new, small 7.5'x12' kitchen in the new house.

I am not a proponent of having a free standing stove with no surrounding counters and handles dangling off by any means, but we often have something cooking on the top while there is no one standing in front of the cooking surface at all, blocking it from anything.

Again, like the island that's not allowed to have anything on it because it ruins the look of it, part of the problem is not that people used to take people getting covered with boiling oil in stride, and we don't any more.

The problem is that the kitchen has been turned into Grand Central Station, number one, and the second is that most people used to cook on normal residential-power appliances, and now, even the most rudimentary cook is often convinced they need at least one burner that melts the snow on the roof when it's on high.

I understand about being together. I grew up in a house with an open kitchen eating area and an island. (Not open by today's standards, no)

But if I did homework in the kitchen I did it on the kitchen table. Or I did it at the dining room table. Actually my parents preferred that I did it in my bedroom with absolutely no distractions and they would look at it when I was done.

The whole idea that I would do my homework 18" away from where my mother was cooking or using the sink so I had to be close enough for eye-to-eye contact but far enough away that I didn't get burnt, splashed or overspray on my books would have seemed a ridiculous way to plan a kitchen not all that long ago. (Because sorry, it really kinda is).

And even though our kitchen would often be crowded with grandchildren when I got older, the thing was "Sit at the table, or go in the other room because we are getting dinner ready" The idea that you have to plan a layout assumimg that a child is going to be immediately underfoot or running back and forth right behind you is disturbing. Maybe they shouldn't be there at all.

I had a tentative plan for a kitchen once that had a "disconnected peninsula" it wasn't really an island because there was only 18" between it and the adjacent counter. It was not really meant as a true aisle.

I was told it was an attractive nuisance and that it would tempt children to hide there and jump out at each other when people were cooking. Sorry, not in my house. The kid would not be allowed to do that, not when anyone was cooking.

FYI, I was at TJ Maxx this weekend and saw a ton of the stool above there for $8. The store I was at had 12 in different colors and they were by Samsonite but identical style.

I love all the things (induction, Ikea --with Blum guides!-- sales, what NOT to look for in a countertop) that I've learned about on GW. The Read Me First thread alone I've spent hours reading and working on : thank you buehl !!

I am not good at standing up for myself, but now I can just look someone up and down, staring at their shoes, and usually I think of *some8thing to say by then and the person is shifting around --thank you Marcolo!

As far as the forum discussions/ behavior go, I couldn't find the thread that I vaguely remember here in Kitchens but this one's pretty funny: how many forum members does it take to change a light bulb

The one from the Kitchens forum was funnier.

cheers

ps: I haven't posted any remodel because now we're trying to sell our previous "last" house (where I was going to put in a 6' vintage sink, sigh) before doing much to the new and definitely "last" house.