Tax plan question
9 years ago
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A simple question that might cut your tax bill
Comments (4)As I said ... ... if you're interested in giving out interest-free loans ... ... let me know where the line-up starts, so that I can get into it before it gets too long. I won't borrow to invest in consumer items, as that means that I eat stuff this year that I won't pay for till next year, which means a reduction in next year's income due to paying for this year's eating. Not only that - I have to pay rent to the lender of the money for the use of his/her money. However - I may borrow to invest and expect to be doing so, soon, as the markets stay low. I've made three purchases in recent months using cash and have another to do soon. Plus I'm being forced out of one holding, which includes Canada's largest phone co., as it's being sold and taken private. That will free up some more cash in a few months. My bank told me a few months ago that they'd charge me prime rate, 6.25% on a fully-secured (by certificates of mutual funds and stocks) Line of Credit. I calculate that I can borrow to invest in high-quality stocks at almost no net cost. As interest on loans for investment is deductible, if I'm in 25% tax bracket, that reduces my effective cost to just under 4.75%. Core stocks, the kind that I'd planned to use for retirement, often pay about 3% dividend, which has been (Canadian) tax-advantaged for years and just became more so, meaning that I'll have about 2.5% in hand after the tax is paid ... which reduces my effective cost to just under 2.25%. Suppose I borrowed $10,000.00 15 years ago, agreeing to pay interest-only, and had done that (which I don't like doing - I want to pay down some of the principal as I go along ... I'm using this calculation for illustration). If I went in to pay off the loan now, how much would I have to pay? Right - exactly $10,000.00. And it will buy a lot less now than 15 years ago when I borrowed it. With inflation running at 2 -3%, that means that I borrowed the money at just about no cost. A couple of days ago, the bank says that they'll charge me at prime interest rate, now, 5.25%. Deduct tax at 25% is about 1.3%, moving down to slightly under 4%. As above, I receive about 2.5% after-tax from the stocks in which I invest, taking me down to just under 1.5% net cost. But inflation is running at 2 - 3%, and some expect it to go higher, somewhat due to increased fuel costs, that affects most stuff that we buy, incl. strawberries from Mexico in January). So it looks as though I'm gaining, at these rates. Suppose you put $10,000. into the bank 15 years ago, enticed (seduced?) by the bank's highly touted guarantee that, apart from the rent on the money, they'd repay every dollar that you'd lent to them, at the end of the contract. They never mention the corollary to that guarantee - that they won't pay one dollar more, either. Unfortunately for you U.S. folks, the inflation rat went into the bank and chewed off a corner of every dollar that you'd lent to the bank, every year that they'd held it. It'd have to be $5.00 bills for us Canadians, as our Loonies and Toonies are made of long-lasting, rat-tooth-hating metal. Actually, the rat wouldn't find your money in the bank - they lent out about $8.00 for every dollar that everyone deposited. Money in their till is like dollar bills in your wallet/under your mattress - they ain't workin'. So the bank took your $10,000. 15 years ago and lent it to me. Now, you want your money ... and I come to the bank to pay off my $10,000.00 loan ... that they then pay to you. I paid my loan with lower-valued dollars, and you got the same number of lower-valued dollars. I gained from inflation - you lost! Have a weekend that includes some effort expended to learn how money works - an excellent hobby - that pays well! ole joyful...See MoreHow will he next tax law effect your renovation plans? Business?
Comments (28)Kitasel, I agree that all personal deductions should have been eliminated. Itemized deductions always favor some groups over other groups and that is why I find them to be discriminatory by nature. I too,am on the metro north line and we never had the devaluation of equity that most of the country had in 2008. Getting rid of property tax deductions is maybe just finally righting the over inflated property costs in the NYC, Boston and San Fran markets. It is more than supply and demand, these markets are bubbles and their burst will open up opportunities for less fortunate people to finally enjoy owning in these areas as well perhaps, or at least I can hope it does. Again I am fiscally hurt by the 10k cap aswell but compared to the other real issues with the bill this is nothing to complain about. The tax brackets going down by significant percentages in upper middle and upper classes is what I find horrendous about this bill. Not the fact that these same groups, of which I belong, now have to pay on their property wealth and property additions... Taxes for many of us are too low and if we want better futures for our kids it is time we admit it and stop looking for breaks. I dislike this bill because it lowered taxes over all not because it did away with a few luxury deductions like expensive houses and extensions....See MoreWill new tax laws change your build plans ?
Comments (12)Bry - every state is different. Not sure anyone in NJ agrees with you. That doesn't make them right... So let's look at New Jersey... They have a 6.37% income tax rate and about a 2.2% property tax rate. Let's assume a million dollars of property value and $250,000 of income. In the old system, you could deduct more property taxes but paid higher taxes on income after deductions. In the end, your old Federal tax bill was $44,383 (after the SALT deductions), and now your tax bill is $42,819 (after removing $28,000 of deduction elligibility). The cap is on property+state income taxes so most people eveni n modest tax states who are building custom will feel the bite. Sure the overall tax bill might be better but the RE effect has changed. I really just don't understand this whole argument. You are getting more money, but you can't deduct things that you used to deduct and somehow turn it into a case against getting more money... You can't look at the real estate effect of a tax bill without looking at the overall tax bill. In the end, most tax payers will have more money than they used to, so why would you look at rethinking your home purchase. Also the 750k limit may not matter to me but it will effect future buyers. So resale will be hurt. No one getting a $1,000,000 mortgage is going to care about $2,800 per year....See MoreOdd answer to question to tax preparers
Comments (39)Wouldn't it be a useful option to ask one's tax preparer, who has a good view of one's financial situation, for some suggestions? No. The problem is that you are trying to get your tax preparer (a pretty general term) to do the job of a financial planner. It is just about the same logic as asking the plumber to wire your house, I mean he is working inside the walls so why not run some electric when he is in there. Interest income doesn't necessarily equal dividend income. You are using two things interchangeably that are not necessarily interchangeable. Different investments have completely different risk profiles and returns. I am not at all familiar with Canadian tax law, but I would be very hesitant telling someone to invest in the Canadian exchange for a tax advantage. Over the last ten years, the US S&P Index has grown 4.5 times faster than the SP/TSX (Canadian S&P index), meanwhile the SP/TSX typically has a higher dividend yield. I am not trying to give investing advice or anything of the sort, but I am trying to caution against letting the tail wag the dog. I believe this was Elmer's original point, don't get so wrapped up in tax avoidance that you actually perfect income or wealth avoidance. If you want tax planning then find someone who is qualified/certified to do tax planning, and if you want your house rewired call an electrician, even if your plumber has a great picture of the inside of your walls....See More- 9 years ago
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Elmer J Fudd