How often have you been watering?

It sounds like the tree's roots are staying wet for too long. Firs don't like wet feet.

Adding amendments to the native soil is not usually recommended.

Thanks so much for your time. I think you both are exactly right. I have not been watering it. At the nursery I bought it from, in CT, the manager says that he let's his firs go so dry that you can pick the box or ball up like a feather before he proceeds to water them. I was fearful of that, but we got good rain here this summer. I didn't water it much at all and never gave it a soak. Thinking you were correct about the too wet situation, I dug a trench around one side and made a drain going down away from the base. I have done that with a number of my other trees, inserting a 6" black slitted drain pipe on a crushed rock bed and filling the trench with more rocks, and it's working like a charm so far. I make the trench as long as I think it needs to be, starting at the low end of the hole I plant in. I didn't go to that degree with the Silver Show because I thought the slope was taking the water away well enough and I had decent soil, but it was wet way down into the ground. It's probably a goner. You can't stop root rot, correct? I can understand the native soil issue, but our soil doesn't drain. It's thick, heavy clay. A hole dug for a tree becomes a lake that won't drain for days. Much of the landscape has been artificially built anyway, so the topsoil we brought in wasn't what was on the property anyway and the trees are mostly from growers out west, so nothing there is ideal.

Most true firs are native to quite wet climates. But also need good drainage.

Distribution and Ecology

Korea: Jeju Island and Chirisan, 1000-1900 m elevation (Wilson 1920). Hardy to Zone 5 (cold hardiness limit between -28.8°C and -23.3°C) (Bannister and Neuner 2001).

"Abies koreana Wils. is an alpine species and on Hallai-san is abundant above altitudes of 1000 meters, either forming pure woods or mixed with Betula Ermani Cham., but the trees are not large. On Chiri-san, on the mainland, it is common above 1200 meters to the summit (1850 meters), growing with mixed deciduous leafed trees and Picea jezoensis Carr., and there the trees reach their maximum development" (Wilson 1920).

Abies koreana

http://www.conifers.org/pi/Abies_koreana.php

Dean is correct.

Stick with firs grafted onto Abies firma and you will have more success. Unless your entire yard is like...

" It's thick, heavy clay. A hole dug for a tree becomes a lake that won't drain for days."

In your part of the US, with this description, trying gypsum and/or calcitic limestone (NOT dolomitic) might be warranted.* Google my user id and keywords for prior threads. It's not an overnight fix, and takes at least a year to alleviate the problem. It also takes a lot.

* - after addressing other obvious factors that could be causing poor drainage

can't see how deeply it's planted,,,,forget the manure

ron

Yep the manure was a bad idea, as was improving the planting hole if that's what you did. Greensand? Might supply some nutrients in some cases but I cannot imagine it improving the texture of anything besides loose sandy soil. Mixed with clay of any description, I think it would just make matters worse. By forming the quasi-concrete any other incredibly fine insoluble material will form in clay...like play sand. Apparently there is an idea floating around that it is helpful for clay. This is stated at wikipedia without any research reference: "Greensand can be used to absorb excess water in clay-rich soils and to prevent water loss in sandy soils." Sounds like pseudo-science to me; in very dense clay soils, you don't want "excess water" adsorbed, you want it gone! OTOH gypsum is water soluble and adds calcium ions to clay soils. This causes the clay to form larger aggregates, and drain (i.e., water moving AWAY) more quickly.

I used gypsum on a bed with trucked in soil with gummy clay content

added CONSTRUCTION sand,,,digging in there now seams nice and loose

ron

ps you can't return a truck load of dirt :(

Well if you are going to use any sand, coarse construction sand is the one to use. If by 'added' you mean you mixed it in, NB that the standard commercial technique in that case is to that is using even coarser material like Turface. This is what golf courses and athletic field managers do. But if it worked, it worked. I'll take your word for it. I think "zn 5 Illinois" is generally not known for clays quite as gummy as those of the SE US.

I used construction sand. In approx. a wheelbarrow load of well-filtered topsoil, I mix 3-4 heaping shovels of sand, mixing it thoroughly until it feels right, then I mix in whatever local clay & soil there is and chop it up with the shovel and mix and mix until it has a nice consistency. Greensand is now sold as a fertilizer and small amounts are expensive, so its impractical to use it to break up soil. 40 years ago I bought it in 50 lb bags for $5. Now 10 lbs. can be $30. When I was ready to fill in a hole with a conifer, I would grab two big handfuls of greensand and mix that in. And because I know that a planting hole in clay, amended or not, will just fill up with water, I create a drain system for each tree. It's a lot of work, but worth it I think. Everything I have done this with so far is doing much better. I killed a number of these trees without the mix and/or the drain.

"Green sand has a bunch of nutrients and breaks up clay."

I'd advise others to thoroughly research this before spending their money. The only citation of real scientific research I can find demonstrates a possible benefit in sandy soil, which I already mentioned. (notwithstanding as a minor source of potassium and iron)

Just re-read your prior post: trust me, it was the drain making the difference, NOT the greensand.

"Stick with firs grafted onto Abies Firma and you will have more success."

Can anyone tell me which Conifer growers actually do this?

Unfortunately, fewer than there used to be.

Conifer Kingdom is the only one I am aware of that regularly tries to stock such grafts. Camellia Forest in North Carolina has them once in a while. I know he buys them from another nursery in NC, which might have had a website but I can't find it anymore.

There are others I might not know about of course.

Conifer Kingdom is the big one. Western Evergreen also stocks a few. Maple Ridge Nursery here in Atlanta grafts all of their firs onto firma. They have a website, but it's not really up-to-date, and you have to call to make an order. I visited in person just a few weeks ago, and the current selection of firs is pretty slim. You could try back after grafting season. Christy there told me they tend to go pretty quickly. Bruce at Appeldoorn Nursery in Bostic, NC also grafts all of his firs onto firma rootstock. He will email you a list of current availability, and, like Maple Ridge, you have to call to make an order. Mountain Meadows nursery a little north of Asheville, NC may also graft onto firma, although I've never actually shopped from them. You could give them a call. As David notes, Camelia Forest sometimes carries them, even though their website may not reflect it. Contact them and see what they have.

In the cases of the southern grafters, the vast majority of the firs are Abies koreana, Abies nordmanniana, and Abies pinsapo, which happen to be some of the most heat-tolerant of the fir species. Fortunately for us, there are many beautiful cultivars for each species. If you are looking for "other" firs grafted onto firma, Conifer Kingdom is the only reliable source I know of.

That's terrific. Thank you so much, David and Dean, for the leads. I had been on Conifer Kingdom's website a couple of times and forgot about it. Sort-of dismissed it because I don't like buying 12" plants and everything I seem to see is tiny, but I will re-visit. It might be well for me to buy from Southern grafters, who would probably have stock better suited to my zone, which is technically 6b via zipcode search, but am right on the cusp of 7a.

Conifer Kingdom is a little steep in my opinion - for plants that are yes, small. But I've been happy with the one I got from them. It is growing, slowly, as you'd expect for what was a small 2 year graft of a variegated fir. Variegation weakens the plant, of course, even under the best of circumstances. The fact it survived this incredibly wet and humid summer proves it really was on firma! I'm actually still a bit on the fence about this one: Abies numidica 'Baronagel'
But thinking I just don't want another one of these to worry about. And, again, it's not like $150 is play money to me, for a "12-18 inch" plant. NB I'm not primarily a conifer collection, and have about 50 cultivars of Rhododendron to worry about, maybe 25 other rare to very rare trees and shrubs in the not-fully-established phase, and 20 unusual perennials that need special attention.
But I'd advise you to be thankful for what you've got, in terms of the limited market of places to buy such material. At the rate the world is going (definitely becoming an idiocracy) in 10 years there won't be any sources for rare grafted Abies at all.

No doubt you are right about that! I cannot imagine the younger generations having anything to do with this. I am an antique dealer and an advanced collector of many things. I am obsessed with some things that most people would find boring, especially the smart phone obsessed generation.

Trees are my newest obsession and while they cost a lot less than what I buy and sell, with but very rare exception, everything has its price. Plus, trees die. Antiques generally don't die. I have seemingly lost 2 of these silver firs now and they were costly compared to most, and I am just ill about it. It's a combination of the waste, the money, and how much I enjoyed it.

I have about 100 conifers of all different kinds, plus some European beeches and red maples for contrast, and some holly thrown in here and there. I have a daughter named Noel. I had a dog named Kringle and another named Holly. See a pattern developing here? Red and green... Conifers...

Still, my favorites are the yellow and white variegated varieties. I love Abies Koreana Aurea. I have two that are about as tall as I am. They replaced two I killed the first time around. This year I actually tented one of them this summer to protect it from the sun. It seems to have worked. We'll see. I have both white and black dragon's eyes--the black is amazing, plus Ogon Janome, Chief Joseph, some variegated thread branch cypress, Carsten's Winter Gold, Trolgold, Watt's Golden, Ogon, Burke's Red, Gold Drift, Goldilocks, etc. But hands-down the best plant I bought last year was a Mugo called Amber Gold. It was variegated yellow to saturated orange to green in the winter. Amazing. The color was better than Chief Joseph or Carstens. Looks different in person then on the web. I see Conifer Kingdom has it.

I really like Abies numidica 'Baronagel' and will pursue one. Thanks!

Make sure the soil has enough moisture(and good drainage), *especially* during the summer/when it is hot. It does not like hot summer nights and moist soil helps this. My Silberlocke put up a nice leader this year, they are supposed to grow 3-6" per year. (Columbus, Ohio, southern part of their zone range).

As far as dealing with drainage issues (Ive got a fairly large vernal pool on my property that typically lasts until August, leaches live in my soil), I build (and am constantly adding to) mounds. if I dont plant my trees on a mound or large enough mound, they usually die.

These poor guys are in the vernal pool area. They will be islands for about 4 months. Amazingly the colorado blue spruce has survived.

etc.

That's awesome to see and hear. Great pics. I enjoyed seeing them and thank you!

pete powell, you have some beautiful plants! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. I think Ill hijack this thread some more lol.

90 degree angle weeping white pine. Im considering trying to make a "staircase".

Im not picky when it comes to conifers. Left to right.Little giant arborvitae, yew, emerald green, transplanted volunteer juniperis virginiana, emerald green, some type of juniper, emerald green. Love it! Behind the fence (both sides of gravelway)are dawn redwoods my neighbor planted 13 years ago from bare root cuttings from the arbor society.

I decided to do a conifer garden below a silver maple. That Japanese Thunderhead Pine was planted on January 9th about 3 years ago. Uncle Fogy on the right.

Front center/rightish picea orientalis aureospicata.

Hopefully I dont have to stake the weeping Norway spruce next year. I unintentionally removed the stake a couple months ago. Picea pungens Bakeri in center/left.