"I think I am going to get some grow lights. But I am not looking to spend a lot. Less than $100. I imagine that is not enough for your suggestion zeedman.. but please let me know." Yes, the setup I referred to might be more than that, but not by much... and I think you would be happy with it. I used the fixtures here; bulbs are not included, and you need to attach a 3-prong power cord (which you could salvage off an old appliance). I bought 4 fixtures (I start a lot of plants) and a full case of bulbs; the total cost per fixture was close to $100.00. I used 6500K spectrum lamps, and the plants were so stocky & strong that they needed very little hardening off. I had to switch from T-12 shop lights, because due to the Federal light efficiency standards, it was becoming impossible to find T-12's that were bright enough. When I first began using the shop lights, it was easy to find bulbs that were 3200-3300 lumens from any big box store. Now it's hard to find T-12's with anything close to 3000 lumens... and even if you find them, you'll pay a pretty penny for them. There are a lot of choices for grow lights, and several different (and sometimes contentious) schools of thought. You can find more info regarding lumens (light intensity), spectrum, and different light sources on the GW "Growing under lights" forum. "My secret is taking them outside WHENEVER feasible...cannot beat that as they are already hardened in." I agree 100%. The sooner you can acclimate your plants to direct sunlight, the better. This will reduce transplant shock, which might otherwise delay growth until the plants get over their "sunburn". Kind of like people in that regard... got to adjust gradually, or feel the burn. "Also I would like to get a self watering system, as the indoor small pots dried out very very fast (though the peppers didnt seem to mind particularly) I don't like the idea of keeping them covered all the time, promoting disease." Covering seedlings is not a good idea, since that promotes damping off. I tried using one of those "mini greenhouse kits" when they first came out, and watched as mold spread out over the surface, and seedlings began falling over... never again. A self-watering system carries some of the same risks, if the soil surface is kept constantly damp. Very few vegetables like having their feet in the mud, so to speak. This post was edited by zeedman on Fri, Dec 5, 14 at 15:18

It seems everyone's rudeness sensitivity has a different adjustment. If you want to see rude, flip on over to the Soils forum or the Organic Gardening forum where it is too common to gang up on one member and flat out call him stupid in so many words. On the corn gluten meal thread which ZS started a week or so ago, he said I had accused him of something but he would ignore it because he wanted to remain positive. I put the following into a message. Can anyone help me see where I might have made an accusation and one that had a negative note to it? Then ZS replied with the following Dchall_san_antonio wrote: > In real life it is rare to find someone who has had a good experience with CGM as a preemergent. I'm not sure if he was ignoring my request or replying to it. If anyone would care to help, please send me an email through my member page. I don't see it. It seems to me that ZS is egging us on by posting quotes that fly in the face of what has become common knowledge. When we try to explain either what is wrong with the quote or where the quote left off vital information or where the source quote was taken out of context, then the tone of the messages changes for the worse. To me it is clear who threw the first punch on this thread. Tiemco asked some questions and ZS bit his head off. I offered some clarification and got my head bit off. ZS if you prefer to read books and do not like to read what we have to say in this forum, then why are you here? I'm not saying there is no reason to be here, I'm simply asking why you are here? Are you here to offer us the benefit of what you have read? If that is the case then we will respond completely differently. Most people come here to find out if what they have read holds water. We have made that assumption with you. If we have been giving you advice when you were not looking for it, then that might be the root of the antagonism. Giving unwanted advice is considered rude to a lot of folks. Please let us know. You can establish your credentials based on what you read outside the forums and we'll leave it alone. I might add that disagreeable messages are one reason that forums lose membership. I've seen some really great people leave this forum simply because of one or two members who pestered them mercilessly. If you would not like to receive our thoughts and comments on your threads, it is easy enough to make that happen. Since I seem to be a catalyst for you, ZS, and since I don't see where my remarks are setting you off, then I'll stop replying with these thoughts and let you go.

I had miraculous results with lillikoi (P. edulis flavicarpa) seeds my friend gave me from Hawaii that were a year and a half old and stored encased in some masking tape :) I scraped one long edge of each seed with fine sandpaper (220 or so) several times until I felt like I had almost scraped all the way through the outer shell. I then soaked the seeds in a small amount (1.5 tablespoons or so of each ) of fresh squeezed orange juice and strong black tea. I placed them in a small plastic souffle cup on a heat mat in a sunny window where the liquid proceeded to evaporate. After about 24 hours the liquid had been reduced to almost a syrup, and I added enough water to get it back to the original amount. After 48 hours I planted the seeds about a half inch deep in half miracle grow seedling starter mix and half perlite, and encased the container in a large bag with the top slightly open to trap the humidity, and placed this on the heat mat in the sunny window. Because it was so hot over the week (sunny, humid and around high of 95F) I checked the soil temp and it was around 97F so I stopped putting the heat mat on during the day, and only put it on at night. Then over the weekend, I went on vacation and accidentally left the heat mat on during the day. When I came back from vacation, one of the seeds (a year and a half old!) had already sprouted.... this was only 7 days after planting!!! Within 3 days, two more had sprouted. I am not sure if these results were because flavicarpa is particularly hardy and vigorous, if there is something about storing them stuck between masking tape that preserves viability, or if it was the pre-treatment effects and warm soil that made them so viable, but whatever the factor, I am pretty pleased with this ultra fast germination and wanted to share in case anyone else can use this info :)

Late enough not to risk any warm up is best--and the northeast is getting another warmup into the seventies (for me, anyway) this week. Hence my recommendation to drop just before the first major snowfall. Usually any significant warming trend is behind you, and if it isn't, it won't last long enough to cause a major problem during most years. Tentatively, I'd say that the earliest normally acceptable date for dormant seeding is around December 15th in most locales during most years. January 15th would be safer as we often get a thaw around my birthday, just after the New Year.