I have no knowledge of this subject...But rose midge invaded the International Rose Test Garden in Portland, Oregon back in 2004 so I'd say Oregon has the rose midge...

Generally bugs (even animals) do not like silicon. See my posts in the following thread:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1604785/preventing-japanese-beetles?n=80

Any scientific claim that says something "is so", and any company that says they have done their own research to prove it "is so" doesn't cut it with me. Real scientific claims have to be backed by double blind tests, and then replicated by other scientists (not associated with the company making the claims), and using more double blind tests. Then the results of all this testing need to be published in a reputable scientific journal. Until all this testing happens to a product, I won't believe the claims about its benefits. Diane

Enchantedrose,

If it is potassium at high percentages that reduces insect damage by strengthening cell walls, you would never know it by my roses in my consistently severe midge fly pressure garden. My liquid feed is 12-30-25 fed every two weeks. My roses look great, but the midge fly pressure continues unabated.

Midge fly maggots chew. They are not sap suckers like mites and aphids.

Spider mites are also a constant summer presence here.

Moses

This is a 2016 review.

Title: "Silicon: Potential to Promote Direct and Indirect Effects on Plant Defense Against Arthropod Pests in Agriculture"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904004/

thanks Henry-From the ncbi.nlm.nih.gov site Henry linked to-"There is now considerable literature supporting the role of silicon as a physical defense mechanism, and a growing number of published works on the role of silicon-mediated biochemical defense. However, there are few references on the role of silicon in tri-trophic interactions."

Moses- potassium isn't the ingredient that works. It's the silicon additive.

It's worth a try along with other defenses and won't be harmful to my roses. Paul Zimmerman recommends a high potassium application for winter protection of roses.

Sharon

It's worth a try since it seems to be useful for other things. However, I wonder how the silicon works in Protek. Is it an exterior layer? If so, it would only work for midge if it's strong enough to prevent the ovipositer breaching the stem. Once the eggs are deposited, it would stop them chewing. However, if it's taken up by the entire plant, then there's some hope!

Does it affect the fragrance? VV, do you remember when one of the people in the organic forum used different minerals to strengthen the plant against pests but then said that it destroyed the fragrance? Can't remember what they were using though.

Vaporvac and Lavenderlace- I have no idea of the answer to either of your questions. Karyn, whom I buy some of my organic roses from old me she fertilizes every three weeks with Maxicrop. I didn't know what it was so I googled and found out that it is potassium only fertilizer. CoriAnn mentioned using Pro-tek on her CA roses to help with high temps. I goggled that to see what it was which led me to the info I posted. I would think that potassium wouldn't affect the scent of a rose seeing it is a needed mineral for plant health. I don't know if silicon would affect scent.

Sharon

I'll research that later tonight, LL. I do remember that clearly, not just how it destroyed, but also changed the fragrance.

I have used the Protekt and don't recall it affecting scent at all.

Dingo, Did it help with BS at all?

Julie

Do you have any opinions on it. I admit I'm leery and viewing this as snake oil. That feeling is not based on any fact. It seems as if someone came up with a get rich quick scheme that apparently causes no harm. Just not enough studies yet. I also admit to sending money on several snake oils thru the years. There is a lot to mention about these products but that would take to long. I can't wait for updates from everyone.

Title: "Applications of Potassium Silicate Decrease Black Spot Infection in Rosa hybrida `Meipelta' (Fuschia Meidiland™) "

See:

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/38/6/1144.short

The above paper has been cited by 38 more recent papers.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?num=100&newwindow=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=3961031713361303121

Thanks for the additional information Henry. Would you happen to know wether it can inhibit the uptake of iron or other heavy metals.

Regarding silicates and iron:

"Discussion

In this study, some micronutrient treatments, typically silicon + iron, resulted in drastic reduction in the number of eggs, galls, egg masses and juveniles of the nematode, but they had no significant positive effect on the plant growth indices. On the other hand, some treatments of silicon + iron showed a significant reduction in the plant growth parameters when compared with control; this might have resulted from the adverse effects of the combined application of these two mineral elements with each other,"

http://journals.modares.ac.ir/article_15523_dff0ca8adf693615d9f0ec910e15a2ed.pdf

I can't tell you much! I used it a couple of times last year, planned on using it this year but it hasn't happened yet. I originally bought it to use on my Hibiscus, but then had a soil test done and I need more potassium. It also is recommended as an emulsifier if you are spraying neem oil or whatever. I think we had a thread last year about the silicon possibly preventing the spread of RRD. I used it late last fall hoping to help with overwintering. I should pull it out now and see if it helps with BS - some of my roses are looking shabby, but new leaves are coming in that look better and I'd like to keep them nice. I use it by itself, not in combo with iron or anything. I don't remember it being super expensive, I bought it on Amazon and I think you only use like a teaspoon a gallon. I just put it in my hose end sprayer and went to town, the dosage is pretty forgiving, they recommend 2 teaspoons / gal as an emulsifier. You cannot see it on the leaves after you use it, so it's not a coating like Wilt pruf or something.

Amazon has a gallon for $35, free shipping :)

Patty- I decided to try this because CoriAnn mentioned she used it for her roses which are stunning. I don't think it's being marketed as a snake oil. It's actually marketed to mostly greenhouses and not marketed specifically to rose growers.

From CoriAnn on Charlene de Monaco rose- "Cynthia mine sounds like it's acting more like yours. Turns creamy white almost immediately in my dry heat. To be fair, the heat has been so extreme lately that all of my lighter color roses seem to be fading to a shade of white almost immediately.

I wasn't so sure I liked this one at first because it was such a baby even in the mild heat here, but it has gotten much better after a few applications of silicon (I used Protekt brand). The fragrance is heavenly so it was definitely worth the extra care."

I had never heard of Pro-tekt so I decided to look it up and thought it sounded interesting. It's not marketed like SuperThrive is, which definitely is marketed in a snake oil way, sort of like Marvel Mystery Oil for cars, but marketed as an aid not a cure-all. they don't claim that your rose will turn into super-rose with an abundance of non-stop blooms or total resistance to any and all forms of strife it's just potassium with silicon which is a trace element not available in many fertilizers.

Pro-TeKt 0-0-3 is a liquid supplement which supplies higher levels of potassium and silicon helping your plants build stronger cell walls to create a natural barrier against piercing & sucking insects and invading fungi. It is a known fact that potassium helps to develop healthy cane or stem growth. That is why it is one of the three absolutely necessary ingredients of plant fertilizer, theater two being nitrogen and phosphorous. Potassium is an essential plant nutrient and is required in large amounts for proper growth and reproduction of plants. Potassium is considered second only to nitrogen, when it comes to nutrients needed by plants, and is commonly considered as the “quality nutrient.”Potassium has many different roles in plants: In Photosynthesis, potassium regulates the opening and closing of stomata, and therefore regulates CO2 uptake. Potassium triggers activation of enzymes and is essential for production of Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP). ATP is an important energy source for many chemical processes taking place in plant issues. Potassium plays a major role in the regulation of water in plants (osmo-regulation). Both uptake of water through plant roots and its loss through the stomata are affected by potassium. Known to improve drought resistance. Protein and starch synthesis in plants require potassium as well. Potassium is essential at almost every step of the protein synthesis. In starch synthesis, the enzyme responsible for the process is activated by potassium. Activation of enzymes – potassium has an important role in the activation of many growth related enzymes in plants.

http://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/potassium-in-plants

The Benefits of Soluble Silicon for plant health and growth - Professor Lawrence Datnoff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCZWZ5FsRhw

Silicon, a valuable fungicide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaRM7V1B3rI

If you google silicon and plant health and you'll find a wealth of info.

No snake oil, it's just science.

I didn't mean to pick a fight I just wanted to know if anyone had seen improvement to rose midge resistance with the use of Pro-tekt.

Sharon

Oh no I did not mean it that way at all Sharon. I meant it more as I'm a bit fast at jumping to purchase things for the garden whenever I here positive things about It. I think that I would do better to wait a while for further testing to see what benefits are there. I did google it in several ways one search brought up the benefits and the other was not as positive. You would not believe some of the things that I have purchased for my plants. I have loved the questions that you are asking and have been reading intently. Always hoping for that miracle midge killing weapon keep up the good work your doing.

Thanks Patty-I wish I could send some of this out to you to try since you have a definite midge problem but it's liquid so it can't be sent through the mail. There are lots of studies available on this. The product is not expensive and has extra potassium which is good for our plants. I've asked Cori Ann about her experience with it but she hasn't answered yet. She uses it to protect against heat stress since she's in CA. I'll give it a try and see what it does. I don't have much of a midge problem from what I've seen so far so it might be hard to tell if it's making a difference or not. The owner of Fresh Garden Living uses a high dose potassium without the silicon Maxicrop, 0-0-17 on all her plants. They are super healthy when they get here from Oregon. So maybe the potassium helps with water retention. Pro-tekt contains potassium and silicon which help reduce stress caused by heat, cold and drought.

These are 2 Kordes Crazy Love bands she shipped from OR last week that I received on Saturday 8/5.

All of the roses I order from her are similarly healthy though small. I ordered Kordes Quicksilver, Florentina, Cloud10 and Tequila Supreme earlier this summer. QS has about six canes and virtually no black spot. Florentina looks really healthy and TS has flowered three or 4 times even though she has been in her band pot since June.

Sharon

Sharon

I hope you like your Tequila Supreme its one of a very few roses here who's petals have substance. Don't know what 100 degree heat will do to them thou. The first flush here lasts about three weeks. Good week of the best color but I also really like the first fade color with is like an antique pink and green. They do eventually fade to icky I'm just one who likes that in between antique color.

Thank you very much for the extra information on protekt.

Patty- Thanks for the info on Tequila Supreme. The pink and green blend sounds lovely. I couldn't find much info on her but I thought she was very pretty. There seems to be quite a bit more info at HMF now than when I looked earlier in the year. How long have you had her? Did she go through a winter for you. One comment at HMF said she didn't make it through the zone 5 Vermont winter. I'll have to try protecting her a bit. Star Roses rates her hardy to Z5 but elevation makes such difference. We're almost 900 feet elevation so it tends to be a bit colder here than other neighboring towns, She seems really healthy right now, just a tiny smidge of black spot on the bottom leaves. She's on her third or fourth bud already which is unusual in my garden. I'm thrilled if I get two flushes. She looks like she offers a nice round of various colors as she ages. I'm planting her with Clair Matin. I think she'll make a nice companion color-wise.

Sharon

Sticky and her sisters did indeed make it thru their first winter lowest temp -14 degrees with no snow cover, They came from Michigan Bulb as plugs. They were out in the open with nothing for protection. Not to bad in the health dept either. After 2 years of sever anthracnose here on everything. I have sprayed once a month this year in an attempt to get things back under control.

Patty- I'm seeing a lot of anthracnose here too. I think it's just been too rainy and cool this year. Even my usually healthy Kordes roses are suffering. What do you spray with?

Sharon

Tell me about it, you know I almost found it humorous that I had the most disease resistant roses offered in the USA. Then here comes anthracnose to destroy it all. It got so bad last year all of the plants were sick hostas , hydrangeas, trees you name it. This year I used Bayer disease but I need to find something better. It did stop the disease last year.

For those of you who use Pro-Tek do you use it as a drench or foliar application? On the directions I see both options but, as with other products, I'm wondering if the outcome would be quite different.

Dave- I haven't used it yet. CoriAnn uses it. I'll ask her. I'll let everyone know if I see any improvement to anthracnose after I foliar spray since I don't have much blackspot. I'll also see if it helps with aphids since I have these too.

Patty- funny in a not funny, haha, way! I think "ironic" might be the better word. Is anthracnose as bad a disease as black spot? My roses look awful but they still have their leaves unlike with bs. And some of the Kordes are fine as is Julia and my DA Windermere and Queen of Sweden. I'm still learning. Since it doesn't cause complete defoliation I'm thinking (hoping) it might be the lesser of two evils. I haven't sprayed yet, partly out of laziness but mostly out of concern for the environment. So many of these products are harmful to aquatic life. Our property abuts a designated swamp. I'd hate to cause damage to the eco-system there. My hydrangeas and hostas look fine so it doesn't seem as bad as yours. I'll let you know when I use the Pro-tekt. With luck it just might do what it says it does. Wouldn't that be great :-)

Kelp4Less has silica powder available for hydroponics. According to the info it has recently been approved asa plant nutrient recognized by science. It's helpful for those who especially grow in raised beds or pots which CoriAnn does. I have bought from Kelp4Less. They're a bit pricy but have great service and organic products. The video is a bit long but here's the link if anyone is interested-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB5pBCdnMTE

Dave- it seems according to the Kelp4Less is used as a drench not a foliar spray. It might be because they are geared more to hydroponics though. Their's is neutral ph. There are 9 reviews by buyers that say they see improvement in stem strength, leaf strength and disease resistance. I don't think CoriAnn gets much disease in CA where she gardens but she does get extreme heat and uses Pro-tekt for heat and drought stress.

Sharon

Dave I put in the hose end sprayer and do a foliage spray with it, but I guess I sort of do a drench too, as I water lightly at the same time. I'm guessing it would work okay with either application as it's drawn up into the cells themselves.

Thanks for the info on Pro-tek! I'm willing to give it a try. I used Maxi-crop last year as a foliar feed and it seemed to reduce fungal disease and the foliage looked perhaps darker - was overall healthier. However, it did not reduce rose midge, spider mites, or any other pest. This year between being so busy with work and the erratic weather I have not done this yet. I like my beneficial insects but if Pro-tek is a nonpesticide option and will improve the health of the plants I am hopeful.

Patty, I've had a similar year this year with acanthrosis and some blackspot - most of my very disease resistant ones have been affected as well along with some non-rose plants. I'm still not sure why.

So how did this work out for everyone that tried it last year re: midge?

... in your treatment and control beds? (credit to Moses).

Any more feedback on this 1? 3 years later?

I still have rose midge. I just bought a Kaolin based spray that is used in crop farming but haven't used it yet. Or even unpacked it. It's supposed to make the leaves unappealing to munch. Kaolin is used in porcelain slip. I use porcelain slip and have inadvertently gotten it in my mouth. It doesn't taste great :-) so here's hoping.

The midge isn't as bad as past years but still here. I've been laying cardboard or magazine/catalog pages down before I mulch in the spring. Maybe this is helping some. What a scourge!!!

Sharon

I'm sure the cardboard and magazine helps keep them from Erupting in the spring. That is a very good tactic Similar to using landscape fabric but less permanent. Are you a potter?