For name recognition, I'd start with:

The Red Rose of Lancaster (Apothecary Rose)

The White Rose of York (Alba Maxima)

The Yellow Rose of Texas (Harison's Yellow)

On a slightly lower level:

Rosa Mundi

R. centifolia

R. damascena

This is my list, without at the moment putting too much thought into it, and I must admit that most are those I've experienced personally.

La France

Souvenir de la Malmaison

Mutabilis

Le Vesuve

Cl. Lady Hillingdon

Madame Hardy

Marechal Niel

Reve d'Or

Iceberg

Peace

Duchesse de Brabant

Koenigin von Daenemark

Abraham Darby

Those that immediately come to mind are:

Maman Cochet....Niles....

La France

Peace

Iceberg

Sombreuil

Madame Isaac Perierre

Blush Noisette

Souvenir de la Malmaison

Hansa

Adam

Graham Thomas

Pope John Paul II

ETA: oops.. The last two and a couple others are not so old at all... but highly popular... Classic??

I wish more people would respond; this is a very interesting query.

Desertgarden, I did have old roses in mind, but if a rose is a classic for you, I know folks want to hear about it. Very few rose lovers only grow 19th century roses...

I joke with my husband that he sometimes answers my questions by pretending I asked a different, better question, but sometimes he's right. (And when he isn't, I ask my original question again...) I think this kind of question should be answered however you want to- there's no grading involved!

Ingrid, I like the lists so far, but I'd like to see some other responses also- it isn't meant to be a difficult question- just which names pop into your head when you think of classic old roses. (Or old-fashioned roses, as with some of the Austins that have been around long enough to earn that kind of name recognition.)

Virginia

I agree with Ingrid and hope more people chime in. Virginia, thank you for both the theme and your fantastic list.

This topic reminded of a small, but exceptional, book by Rougetel that was probably meant for an amateur in rose growing interested to explore all possible classes of old roses, the micro climate permitted. She highlighted a few roses within each class as classics and I imagine that only someone in the ideal zone 7/8 might be able to grow them all (or perhaps even this would be too ambitious).

I'm far from an experienced rose grower but in the spirit of this little book I'll go ahead with my list, mostly drawn from what I've read about the history of roses and on this forum. Some, not all, of these I've seen in various gardens on my travels and I'm growing only 4 from this list.

Tuscany / Charles de Mills for gallicas

Alba semi-plena or Great Maiden’s Blush (whichever is on Botticelli's 'Birth of Venus', or even better, both)

Autumn Damask (Quatre Saisons)

Mme. Hardy

R. centifolia

Cristata (Chapeau de Napoleon)

Rose du Roi

Souvenir de la Malmaison

La Reine

Reine des Violettes

Old Blush

Champneys’ Pink Cluster / Maréchal Niel / Rêve d’Or for noisettes

Félicité Perpétue

Gloire de Dijon

Cécile Brunner or Perle d’Or

The Fairy

at least one species (my personal choice would be Eglantine or one of Lady Banks roses)

I think this depends where you live in the world, as roses better in warm climates probably wouldn't figure for us too much... but thinking aloud...

Gloire de Dijon, Blush Noisette, R. Alba Semi-Plena, Mme Isaac Pereire, Charles de Mills, Mme Alfred Carriere, Albertine, Blairi No. 2, Mme. Hardy, Great Maiden's Blush,, Comte de Chambord, Rosa Mundi, I think these would be up there as stalwarts of that period in this country. Oh I ought to put in R. gallica officinalis, although I've not grown it..

Here are some other roses chosen by the Heritage Roses group for a border at Hampton Court Palace, planted a couple of years ago... apart from those above...

Celsiana, Old Blush, Baronne Prevost, Capitaine John Ingram, Tuscany Superb, Rose de Rescht, Mutabilis, Mrs Herbert Stevens, Mermaid, Adelaide d'Orleans, Felicite et Perpetue...

..along with the better known 20th C Hybrid Musks of Pemberton's, and I was surprised they even put in 'Bengal Crimson'/Miss Lowe's...

'Souvenir de la Malmaison' is noted by its absence, but in my experience it does better here than often stated, and I would have it back if I had the space..

vesfl, I limited my original list by sticking to roses predating the 20th C., and by not thinking too much about it; I'm sure some of your choices (and others already mentioned) would have ended up with mine, and I'm also thinking 'Clotilde Soupert' and 'Devoniensis' might oughta have been on my original list also...

Is the book you mentioned The Little Book of Old Roses? I've heard of it, but haven't read it...

Thanks,

Virginia

Virginia, yes it is that book. I also have her 'A Heritage of Roses' which you might find even more interesting unless you already read it, but I think this little book (physically tiny too) is a nice brief introduction to the world of old roses. Speaking of forgetting, I can't believe that I omitted 'La France'!

Marlorena, that's a good point about our notions of "classic" being shaped by where we live, and what we (think we) can grow. I did try to add some OGR's to my list that I probably can't grow here, but which I still think of as important to know about.

But there's also a mental filter that keeps me thinking more about roses that are suitable for warmer locales like mine, and less about those that would be inappropriate here.

Since it doesn't sound like you have space for SdlM, I'm guessing you're planting some non-rose plants where you formerly had roses? I hope to hear more about your garden transformation as things start to come together for you...

Thanks,

Virginia

Virginia, Yes, I just felt that Lamarque and Marechal Niel, to name a couple, and the Tea roses, just wouldn't figure here too much, except with collectors I suppose..

No idea what I'll be planting next year, but I'm sure to order some new roses, I've just been looking at some actually and I do like to support the rose nurseries here, but as you may know I don't always keep them forever, and grow some specifically for just a year or two, so long as I get some nice blooms for a vase and my photo albums... there's always the next Austin in May, I'm looking forward to that already... I've taken a leaf out of Nik in Greece's book, and now grow in pots for the first season... in case I don't take to them especially...

I'm just waiting for the ''what are you ordering this fall'' thread...

I haven't grown all these myself but here's my list:

Apothecary Rose

Maiden's Blush

Russelliana

Autumn Damask

Common Moss

Harrison's Yellow

Mutabilis

Old Blush

Blush Noisette

Safrano

Reve d'Or

General Jacqueminot

Souvenir de la Malmaison

Zepherine Drouin

Cecile Brunner

The Fairy

Gruss an Aachen

American Beauty

New Dawn

Radiance

Peace

I hope people who grow a lot of once bloomers will chime in--people who know the Gallicas, Damasks, Centifolias, Mosses, and Albas really well. Mine are mostly repeaters, though I did add a few once bloomers I've heard/read a lot about. I know La France and the polyanthas aren't technically "old roses," but they've been around so long now that they feel like old classics.

Autumn Damask

Madame Hardy

Pompon de Bourgogne

Apothecary's Rose

Rosa Mundi

Belle Isis

Duchess of Portland

Rose du Roi

Rose de Rescht

Lady Hillingdon

Duchesse de Brabant

Mrs. B.R. Cant

Louis Philippe

Cramoisi Superieur

Old Blush

Green Rose

Souvenir de la Malmaison

Honorine de Brabant

Madame Isaac Pereire

Madame Pierre Oger

La Reine

Reine des Violettes

Baronne Prevost

Champney's Pink Cluster

Blush Noisette

Aimee Vibert

Gloire de Dijon

La France

Marie Pavie

Cecile Brunner

Perle d'Or

I read your question but followed, Ingrid's lead, Virginia. I do not deserve credit for extending the scope of the list to those roses that are not OGR's, but so many rose growers would regard as a classic... but.. your question was specific... my apologies.

Desertgarden, please do not apologize. Your list is exactly what I was hoping for. Nothing on there that couldn't be considered a classic.

I personally stuck to roses before the 20th C. because otherwise I might still be dithering over my own list, and not wanting to hit submit until I got it just right...

I was hoping/ expecting for others to chime in with roses that I didn't have on my list, and I think there are some very good choices here.

Thanks,

Virginia

I'll second Clotilde Soupert.

And if we can have Hybrid Teas, what about the singles from the 1920s that have survived like

Dainty Bess

Mrs. Oakley Fisher

Alba Semi-plena
Baronne Prevost
Bella Donna
Canary Bird
Cardinal de Richelieu
Cecile Brunner
Celeste/Celestial
Chestnut Rose/Rosa Roxburghii
Crimson Glory
Duchesse de Brabant
Felicitie-Perpetue/Little White Pet
General Gallieni
Gloire des Rosomanes/Ragged Robin
Great Maiden's Blush/Maiden's Blush
Green Rose
Lady Banks' Rose
La France
Leda
Maman Cochet
Marechal Niel
Mutabilis
Old Blush
Ophelia
Paul Neyron
Perle d'Or
Radiance
Rosa Arkansana
Rosa Gallica Officinalis
Rosa Mundi/Versicolor
Sanguinea/Slater's Crimson China
Talisman
Tuscany Superb

Great thread idea. There are so many classics and so little ground space.

Justin

Great compilation from everyone and a fun and informative thread, Virginia! I may be duplicating since my brain can't keep track of all the OGRs listed for more than a few seconds after I scroll down, but if they haven't been named, I'd add the following old and newer roses. Carol

SPECIES

R virginiana

R roxiburgii

GALLICA

Camaieux

Belle sans Flatterie

Belle de Crecy

Duchesse de Montebello

Cardinal de Richelieu

Marianne (new/Barden Gallica)

Probably Ellen Tofflemire (new/ Barden Gallica)--I just began growing this one.

ALBA

Felicite Parmentier

Alba Maxima

MOSS

Salet

Capitaine John Ingram

Nuits de Young

Herni Martin

William Lobb

Gloire de Mousseux

HYBRID PERPETUAL

Souvenir du Dr. Jamain

Ferdinand Pichard

DAMASK

Ispahan

La Ville de Bruxelles

Botzaris

PORTLAND

Jacques Cartier

Comte de Chambord

Indigo

RUGOSA

Blanc Double de Courbet

Roserie de l'Hay

Basye's Purple (new)

PIMPINELLIFOLIA

Stanwell Perpetual

NOISETTE

Madame Alfred Carriere

HYBRID MUSK

Buff Beauty

RAMBLERS

Veilchenblau

Violette

Lady Banks yellow and white

TEA/HT

Francis Dubreuil

MODERN

The Prince (new/Austin)

Munstead Wood (new/Austin)

Maybe Ebb Tide and Poseidon/Novalis and Midnight Blue--time will tell.

White 'Rose of York'

Red Rose of Lancaster

R. moschata

Autumn Damask

Great Maidens Blush

Mme. Hardy

Stanwell Perpetual

R. spinosissima ... I can't remember its name, it's pale yellow and comes from somewhere in Russia. it is very fragrant and has a refined scent,

Old Blush

Portlandia (I was hoping the t.v. show of the same name would have an episode about this rose. )

Yellow rose of Texas

Comte de Chambord

Indigo

Reine des Violettes

Forestville Purple Pom-Pom performs very well in my gardens clay soil, and gives me 3 full flushes a year, when it gets enough water.

M.A.C.

Reve d'Or

Marachal Niel

Mlle. Cecille Brunner, dainty pink blossoms. Of all the remontant Old Roses I would place her in the top 3 of the Classic Old Rose List.

Perle d'Or

Lady Hillingdon a must for every historical Tea rose garden.

Mrs. Dudley Cross , of all the 180+ Tea roses I've ever met, Mrs. Dudley Cross is very impressive because of her 5 inch wide blooms that have a strong and heady scent . I wish I knew her first name because I feel we're on familiar, perhaps even intimate terms, as I caress and smell her delicate petals every time I walk by.

Etoile de Lyon

Duchess de Brabant

Baronne H. Snoy

Westside Road Cream Tea, fragrant, abundant bloomer.

Masquerading as a Tea, the climber 'Sombreuil'

I wish I had more time today to add to this list, thank you for starting this thread.

Lux.

I agree with all of the above, and especially want to second Buff Beauty, Stanwell Perpetual, and Russell's Cottage, and perhaps add Kathleen. The climbing forms of Souvenir de la Malmaison and La France are especially nice. I'll never forget seeing them trained on a fence in Washington DC with Jaune Desprez, blooming in 100 degree heat and looking as cool as cucumbers. Then there is Fru Dagmar Hastrup, the magical single rugosa -- worthy of being an "only rose." And we mustn't forget Reine des Violettes and the amazing Chestnut Rose and Roger Lambellin -- for those who can grow it, and of course, Golden Wings -- not to mention Mermaid, which I once had the privilege of seeing and smelling as a tourist in Venice, Italy -- and Nevada, another one I saw in Italy. Another fabulous classic is Madame Gregoire Stachelin which grows in California and there are so many others that have been mentioned above -- and so many more I must be as yet unaware of.

I agree with Marlorena that classics vary with location. In all of Scandinavia the best known old roses are Double White (called the White Rose of Finland outside Finland where it's called the Midsummer Rose), alba Maxima (called the outhouse rose in parts of south Sweden because it was often planted to mask the odor from the outside loo in former times), the cinnamon rose (Rosa majalis foecundissima), Blush Damask, Poppius (a Fenno-Swedish pink spinosissima), the churchyard rose (Rosa francofurtana Agatha), Maiden's Blush, Minette (sold as), Aimable Amie and Great Western. These are the roses people used to come to have identified during the Antique Rose road shows we had 2005-2010 all over Sweden. When we were getting tired after hours of identifying difficult roses (scores of similar gallicas) we used to hope the next rose would be an easily identified Blush Damask, francofurtana or Minette, by far the most common roses in country gardens in my part of Sweden. There is greater variety in the south.

A few modern roses are almost as well-known, Flammentanz, Peace, Allotria, Nina Weibull, Iceberg, Bonica and The Fairy. The helenae seedling 'Hybrida' is becoming widely grown.

Thanks for filling in more of the cold weather classic roses. Marianne, I read a Swedish book called Practical Rose Gardening by Inger Palmstierna so I really appreciate your insights on the country's classics.

Justin

I used to know Inger Palmstierna when she lived in my area. She was chair of the Uppsala Garden Society, the country's oldest garden society. I trusted her assessment of our zone or I wouldn't have known. She now lives in a better climate in the far south of Sweden and has written many books and articles on gardening. She doesn't care for old roses though!

Poor Inger, my heart goes out to her.

La reine, blush noisette/Champeys pink cluster , Duchesse Brabant, Marie Paive, any of the red chinas. Out of newer roses golden celebration, Julia child, iceberg

I guess it depends on what criteria go to make up the category of "classic". If historical importance is a criteria I would nominate this one (which I wish were available in the USA): the Rosa gallica conditorum, known since the sixteenth century, and which a nineteenth century source quoted in Help-me-find says, "is extraordinarily popular in Anatolia under the name 'sweets rose', adding, "It is almost exclusively used for preparation or fragrancing of sweets and is sometimes itself candied." --Der Rosenfreund 1892. Reportedly, it is distinguished by its deep color and very thick petals. The pictures make it appear very attractive, at least to me. You'd think everyone would want one for their herb/culinary garden: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.303838

That's a beautiful gallica, monarda. To this amateur eye, she looks very similar to Tuscany except for the shade of purple that seems deeper in Tuscany. Here is a very similar photo of Tuscany:

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.283480

Sometimes I wonder why some roses, similar in their appearance and presumably quality, vanish while others are still popular and yet there are also those that last but linger more or less in oblivion.

Kazanlik and Ispahan might also be added, famous for production of rose fragrance and they fortunately still grace many private gardens.

Indeed. I have Tuscany and love it. I would certainly consider Kazanlik & Ispahan to be classics. Conditorum is available in Germany, so it has not really fallen into obscurity in the EU.

I think chance plays a part in distribution. My first introduction to old roses was the Will Tillotson catalogue in the house of a family friend, a writer who lived in the country, which we rented for the summers when I was 15 or so. The catalog was so well written I had it practically memorized with no effort on my part. Then there were also the garden books of those years, which I took out of the library & read with avidity, and the Shakespeare gardens in NYC parks which displayed some of the roses mentioned.
Those set the standards for me. -- I think there must be is a distinct "founder" effect -- or bottleneck in what gets chosen as representative, thought there is also much consensus among aficionados based on observable qualities.

We now have so much more info. at our disposal. I only discovered Conditorum a few months ago!

I agree with all the nominations and would add Cerise Bouquet. It's elegance alone ensures it's place.

Regarding the David Austin roses. If he keeps on discontinuing his roses, none of them will have a chance to become classics.

Daisy

I grow Conditorum, the Tidbit Rose, a gallica from before 1629. It's a lighter red than Tuscany. It smells very good fresh and in rose jelly. It's perhaps the best rose for potpourri as the scent is even stronger in the dry petals. A photo taken by a visitor, a better photographer than me or at least with a better camera that can reproduce red a better than my camera. Still, I think this photo is a little too bright and modern looking.

Marianne, it seems like a small world, and somehow I am not surprised that author does not favor old roses. I recall many recommendations in the book were modern shrub roses.

Thank you for bringing Conditorum in the discussion, monarda.

Justin

Before I moved to a warm climate a couple dozen years ago, I would have listed just the European OGRs - Apothecary Rose, Ispahan, Madame Hardy, Rosa Mundi, Cardinal de Richelieu, Great Maiden's Blush, Alba Semi-Plena, Alba Maxima, Sweetbriar (eglantine) Felicite Parmentier and Tuscany. Maybe Stanwell Perpetual, too.

These days I grow more teas since they are happier here, but I still regard these as the foundation classic roses.

Rosefolly