Omg I would be furious! Keep calling and insist that they send someone out to see the damage and determine what can be done. Send a ton of these pictures to the manufacturer Dura Supreme and let them know that you will be posting them on the internet for all to see what they consider work done by their pros. It looks like a bad novice diy project.

Do you know exactly what resolution you expect? Would you settle for less than that? Before you meet with anyone, identify the answers to these 2 questions exactly. Oh yes and one more: If neither of those expectations are met, what type of recourse are you prepared to seek?

My strategy is always be nice, be patient, and be absolutely firm. Tell them what you expect. And if they offer anything less than what you're willing to accept, then politely say that's not good enough and let them know what your next steps will be (don't present these as threats - they are simply an explanation of what you, as a reasonable person, need to do to make sure you get what you paid for).

Good luck.

You need an attorney. He or she should be there as an "observer" if possible. You should also insist that the owner of the company you used be present. Also (as Raven says) consider sending images of your installation to Dura Supreme; ask them if they work with another installer in the area. They may not want to work with these folks again. What is the name of the company and where are they located?

You basically paid these people to vandalize your home. I find it highly unlikely that they will do any better for you. If they were capable of more, you would have gotten a better install. Their work tells you all you need to know about them.

I feel for you, that’s quite horrible. I believe eam44 may be correct in this, much as I dislike litigation. I had poor tile work done (was unable to be present during all the work – never again). I presented them with my complaints and refused to pay the balance until it was remedied. They were incompetent from the beginning, so the remedy was also incompetent. I’ve lived with it but had I been older/wiser I would have never allowed them back in my home. We are removing most of it with our new reno. I wish you the best.

Is actually a DuraSupreme representative coming out, or someone from the lumberyard, installation company, or KD? I have always thought DS had a good reputation so I would want them involved so they can make good on that reputation. They should not want such installations of their product and I hope/think they will reasonably be on your side.

Oh wow, those are horrible. The problem is that Dura Supreme makes the cabinets and the KD uses installers that did a poor job. Unless they work for Dura Supreme, the onus is on the installers and the KD.

DS would only be responsible for defects of the cabinets. That's why they're asking for more photos.

Cabinets not leveled is on the installers. The high level of shimming is ridiculous.

I had my floor foundation leveled before flooring. The installer tested level with every single tile installed. Even with that, I had three shims under my cabinets to level for countertop. However, the shins were maximum, 1/8" inch.

My installer tested every cabinet install with a massive 8' level that he placed at 3 different angles before screwing in.

1/2" or whatever that huge double shim that you had is unacceptable and completely on the installers and KD.

Know exactly what you want to happen as the resolution and demand different workers. I DIY most of my kitchen and despite total inexperience did not do as bad a job.

That 1/2" shim between the cabinet and top says it all. Pull the tops and cabinets and do over.

In all fairness, crown molding is straight, ceilings aren't. Caulk or mud the ceiling to the molding.

Pic: Crown Moulding: Sloppy caulk filling nail holes and no touchup paint

There are multiple fixes when installing crown moulding if houses aren't plumb - many aren't plumb (ex: beacham's leveled flooring prior to install; installing a stock piece between crown moulding and cabinets to 'hide' uneven flooring). With respect to Joseph Colett LCC's comment on fixing with caulk, In the photo above, that's not fixable with caulk, the crown moulding doesn't match up.

Thank you ALL so much for your comments! You're all so helpful!

@ravencajun: In fairness, it's not Dura Supreme that installed the cabinets, but I totally agree it looks like a novice job.

@salex: No, I'm not sure what resolution I want, and that's one of my problems. :) The crown moulding looks bad, and I don't think we should be the ones to fix it. The shim under the counter looks bad, and is easily seen from the adjacent room. Maybe they should put another panel on that goes from floor to counter and covers the shim. And replace doors that are marred or chipped. Personally, I think it would be fair to compensate us financially for even having to deal with all this. Doubt that would happen.

My approach is to be nice. DH is reasonable but angry, and when push comes to shove if diplomacy doesn't/hasn't worked it could get - not pretty!

@eam44: Dura Supreme doesn't work with the installer as far as I know. The KD at the local lumberyard hired/arranged for the installation. I like your suggestion to let Dura Supreme know, I just don't even know how or who I would contact at Dura. We live in the Twin Cities (Minnesota). I'll send the name of the company I bought them from to anyone in a private message if someone wants to know. I just hesitate to give that information now/yet when there is some effort being made to at least look at the situation. I don't know, I'm just following instinct on this I guess!

@lisadlu16: Good question. The KD from the lumberyard is coming out, and it sounds like the 2 installers (whom the lumberyard hired) are coming out. I don't know what the KD has or hasn't shared with Dura Supreme. All I know is they want more pictures of the damaged doors. I had been thinking the KD would be my advocate, which is one reason I didn't try to hire installers on my own. That was a mistake. Seems unlikely I would have found someone who did worse than what I got from going through the lumberyard!

@beacham: I totally agree with everything you said. :)

@Joseph Corlett: How I wish it could all be re-done the right way! Then again, not so sure I could live with starting over again even if it were a choice. :) I'm SO ready to be D O N E!

I can't even imagine doing a kitchen remodel without Houzzers! I so appreciate your support on this very disappointing situation.

@2ManyDiversions: Right, the crown moulding doesn't even match up! This is a disaster corner! What would you do? One idea would be to get someone new to re-do the crown moulding correctly. But if they remove what's already installed they could damage our ceiling. It's just a big can of worms!

As for the holes under the upper cabs, I do believe that it is a good practice to install a ledger board upon which to "rest" the uppers and ensure that they are level at "eye level". I don't think this means it was sloppy or done incorrectly - but your overall KD / installer should know if you are not doing a BS immediately that this would need to be addressed / filled / repaired.

The other issues are not good. I am sorry they insisted on full payment before ordering. Realizing this is not going to help you - but it's a red flag to pay for things before they occur. ESPECIALLY for a labor portion when you KNOW they have not had the corresponding expense. Sadly, that's an indication that they are using your money to pay their people on someone else's job...

I would also insist on the owner or site manager. You should pull out the famous "would you be happy to have this kitchen used as a showcase for your company's workmanship?" line and see what happens.

At this point, who does the KD work for? The lumberyard? If so, then go to the owner. I just addressed the counter leveling but the crown molding is just completely unacceptable by anyone. Even I couldn't possibly do a worse job.

The counter issue is also with the counter people aside from the leveling. They should have discussed an overhang edge with you to hide the top of the cabinets even if the counter was level. Is this a KD hire too?

I'm not at home so I can't link a picture of my countertop. Ideally you want the countertop to transition to the cabinet with absolutely no construction of raw edges visible.

layla, my heart was sick when I first saw your photos, and I can’t imagine what you are feeling looking at it daily. I suspect the lumberyard hired carpenters with zero experience in most everything, hacks who just wanted paid and didn’t care.

I can’t see how the crown moulding is installed from the photos and given the workmanship, I wouldn’t care to guess (screwed, nailed, glued, caulked, all 4), but it can be replaced if you have the correct paint. Even if the drywall/ceiling must be repaired.

I can understand you are exhausted and don’t want to go through this again. But do you want to live with this? It negatively impacts the value of your home. It is not acceptable.

What I wouldn’t do: Allow the same people who did that work back into my home. It’d have to be over my dead body, and then I’d haunt them. They will never correct it because they don’t know how.

Stop being ‘nice’. Time to be firm. You don’t have to be mean, just be stern.

As already mentioned, write a clear list of the problems - all of them, with photos printed to show the issues, and both you and your husband should take this to the owner of the lumberyard – as beachem suggested. Start there. Be firm, but let them understand how upset you both are and let them know you expect a professional resolution.

From what I can see and read from your list, if the damaged doors can be replaced, if you have matching paint, this is all fixable. It will take time. I’d request and pursue references of anyone doing the repairs, and if at any point you see similar shoddy work, make them stop immediately.

I would be concerned about the countertops having no direct support under those areas and if this stress will cause it to crack. They are supposed to be fully supported by the cabinetry and that structure.

I can't begin to understand why you would be ready to be D O N E. The product is horrible. You're going to be living with it forever. It'll never be done to where you can relax and enjoy it if you're D O N E now. An unfortunate truth. But one you must accept and respond to. You are the decider. I hope you used your credit card. Dispute the payment immediately.

Hopefully you paid by a credit card and can call your credit card company to complain, dispute the charge and get them to intervene. This is not even amateur work but some of the shoddiest work I've seen on these forums and that's saying a lot.

And take a deep breath and don't feel you want to be done. You do want to be done, but you want it done correctly. Your counter is just waiting to crack the way it was installed and the rest is a hot mess.

Thanks again for chiming in, all of you!

@ jannicone: I appreciate your insight on the holes. Is it normal to leave them that way though?

You’re so right about full payment. I know better! Hopefully someone else reading this will avoid the same mistake! I hear you about the owner (there is no site manager). I have a feeling they wouldn’t come and wouldn’t care. They have 1 KD, I’m sure cabinets are a very very small portion of their business. Nonetheless, no reason to NOT get owner involved. I just hesitate because that’s taking it a whole ‘nother level. Plus, DH is self employed and it costs us $ for him to be involved. Aaaaaagh!

@beachem: yes, the KD works for the lumber yard. The counters do have a 1.5” overhang, it’s just kind of hard to tell in the picture I posted. I hired the counter people myself, not through the KD (glad for that!!). I do feel like they did a good job. Anyway, The ½” shim posted in the picture faces the den, so if you’re sitting in the den you’ll see the shim and that whole ugly line. I’m thinking they (KD, installers) should get another cabinet finished end piece identical to the one in the picture, but longer so it covers the shim area. Fasten the new piece to what’s already there. This would give the appearance of the counter resting on the end piece as it should have been. No ugly shim and caulk. Thoughts anyone?

@2ManyDiversions: I believe the crown moulding is nailed on. Then nail holes sloppily filled with caulk. But you have a good point - they could have done anything.

The crown moulding came from Dura Supreme and is actually the same paint color as the cabinets. At first I was convinced it HAD to be a different color, but it is the same. Just looks different depending on how the light hits it. Anyway, so it’s certainly possible to get the same crown moulding from Dura Supreme. Finding someone I’d trust to do a good job is another issue. Doesn’t it seem like the lumber yard should have to do that? Take ownership of the issue and fix it. Dang, we just had the ceiling put in, too. Used to be popcorn.

@ravencajun: Good point! I called the counter people. The guy who sold it to me said it should be fine as it’s quartz (strong). If it DOES crack it’s a relatively smaller piece (37” or so). I find a LITTLE comfort in that. But yeah, I really really hope it never cracks!

@dan1888: I get what you’re saying. I’m looking for those bootstraps now!  I did pay with credit card. Hadn’t thought about disputing the charge…. Hmmmm.

@cpartist: Another vote to dispute the charge. I’ll (we’ll) have to consider it. Do you really think the counter will crack? Have you seen that happen? I still want to have faith in the counter people, that they wouldn’t have installed it if it was at risk of failing.

Thanks again everyone for you help!

the only thing I would say is that in construction, one main goal appears to be to "stick it to the next guy", so the cabinet installer won't care about the tile person or the sheetrock person, they will simply leave their usual mess / disaster assuming that the next person will simply "deal with it" because they expect it.

In the case, unless the KD told the cabinet installers that they needed to repair the sheetrock, they wouldn't - because.... they are not sheet rockers....

Did you contract an entire kitchen from the KD / store? or are they simply doing some general (poor) subcontractor management and recommendations? If it's the former, they own the overall project. If it 's the latter, I am afraid you'll just have to deal with it (sheetrock - not the crappy cabinet install)

@jannicone: We didn't contract the entire kitchen from KD / lumberyard. We hired a pro drywaller to put in the new ceiling and new walls (after we demo'd the kitchen). Then the cabinet guys put holes in our new walls! Really? We CAN deal with it - it's just one more thing on the list. Thanks for your input, jannicone. I'm hoping a backsplash would cover the holes problem, although it might be just too tight to tile that close to the cabinet. If we just paint and skip the backsplash, it would be really hard to get the holes all nicely sanded and flush -with the cabinet right on top of the holes. Do you know what people usually do to get rid of the holes?

Being your own general contractor isn't easy as it looks, apparently!

You got that right. We were very fortunate in many respects and saved a LOT of money (based on one estimate we got for GC). But it is not easy to say the least.

I'd be willing to bet my favorite oven mitt that Joe's advice was meant for the fifth cabinet photo, not the fourth moulding photo. DH installed a similar cabinet in our refresh last year and it looked like that for awhile, until he caulked it. I wasn't clear on whether the kd and you have discussed those horrible wall holes, but it's also a simple fix, and they should have repaired your wall, backsplash or no.

Hang in there and keep your voice lowered but your eyebrows raised.

Why on earth are people so passive about what is obviously a horrible job! You are PAYING THEM! You owe them nothing! They owe YOU! You paid for professionals and didn't get them.

Who cares if you're taking this to a new level. The KD works for the lumber yard and she hired these doofuses. The owner is responsible for his employees. Take it to the top NOW!

You have a very limited time to dispute the credit card charge. You should get on that asap, it's your only real hope.

This is what I think I would do. I would quickly research to find an excellent cabinet installer to give a quote to remove and reinstall the cabinets level. And a good finish carpenter (with luck, same as installer) to pull and reinstall crown molding. Check references and look at their actual work. Then I would go to the highest level possible of the business you paid, and firmly state that you want to be reimbursed to pay the installer you found to re-do the work correctly. And don't forget any cost to remove and reinstall countertops. I would also possibly accept another installer the lumberyard provides to do the work, but I would watch and make sure they do it correctly. And I would be adamant not to accept a redo by the same installers.

If the lumberyard balks, I would tell them I plan to either contest the charges on the credit card, or sue in small claims court for the amount it costs to redo this work correctly.

Don't be afraid to sue small claims. I am anti-litigious and hoped to live my life lawsuit free, but had to sue a business that never delivered my flooring. (They also charged credit card in full when ordering.) A friend who is a lawyer advised me to sue in small claims. He also told me the business owed me 10% interest. As soon as they were served, they called me to settle. Court records are public and forever, and can really hurt a business. At worst, if you present your pictures to a judge, you will get something. You pay all this money to beautify your home, and the ugly install ruins that. I bet there is at least some implied level of competence expected of these trades, and this work definitely doesn't meet it.

If you can't come up with cash to pay for redo, then I would see if the credit card will retract the amount paid for the installation.

I plan to GC some of my remodel too. I have a GC friend who advises me. He NEVER will pay in full up front. Never more than half. And check the state license board for any complaints before hiring any sub. Never never never assume building trades know what they're doing. I research how to do every job as if I were going to do it myself (Fine Homebuilding, Taunton Press, and other highly regarded books for each trade). For example, for flooring, I ask the seller how their installer will handle transitions with different heights. One says, a T mold, another shows me in his showroom how they custom back bevel a transition piece. Guess which one I plan to hire.

Good luck! I hope you can get a good resolution.

Andersons21s advice is more complete and totally correct. Get a 3rd party in not only to quote the repair but to give you a written professional opinion on the quality of the work based on accepted standards within the industry. A pro will also likely point out other problems as well as the correct solutions.

You got that right. We were very fortunate in many respects and saved a LOT of money (based on one estimate we got for GC). But it is not easy to say the least.

Unfortunately you saved money but got a subpar job. There is a reason so many of us leave jobs like this to GC's although some GC's are no better than what you wound up with too.

If everything now needs to be redone, how have you saved money by acting as your own GC? The GC (in this case YOU) is responsible for running the job. In your case, that means responsible for fixing the problems with the cabinet install before allowing countertops to go on. If you needed to rely on the countertop installers to let you know that the cabinets weren't installed correctly, you aren't qualified to act as your own GC. You should be able to determine that yourself so that YOU, acting as the GC, could make sure that work was corrected before moving on. If you go ahead and allow them to install the countertops on the improperly installed cabinets, again, you aren't qualified to act as your own GC. And you can pretty much bet that no GC is going to pay his subs BEFORE they have completed the work. I don't want to sound harsh, but unless you know something about construction and are willing to speak up when things aren't done right and demand that they be fixed before moving on to the next stage, you really need a knowledgeable GC. Those little holes in the wall are the least of your problems.

Are you going to live in this house, or are you flipping it?

You really must disabuse yourself of the fiction that you are done. The awful appearance is just the beginning. Wait till your cabinets start to fail and are not under warranty because they were not properly installed. You will also likely have problems with your counter installation. The fun is just starting, and depending on how you handle it, all of the fixes down the road could be yours to pay for. Good luck.

Certainly the countertops can crack they have little to no support in some places. That 1/2 inch shim for example. And definitely get into the mindset of getting things taken care of now. You will be done eventually and you will be done with a product you are proud of not one you want to hide. Do not let anyone take advantage of you! You have rights.

I wish that you didn't have to deal with this problem of a trade not doing their job correctly. But as your own GC, you are not saving money, you are earning it. There is a lot to know and a lot to do, and risk all over the place.

A few years back, I bought an ebook about How to Be Your Own General Contractor. It is awesome, full of detail about every single stage of building, how it should be done. There are also books on Amazon or maybe your local library with similar information.

This problem isn't at all the worst thing that can happen. I learned in one of these books that you can hire a sub who (unbeknownst to you) owes money for materials to his suppliers. You pay him an amount that covers both labor and materials for your job. He uses your money to pay some other debt he's behind on, buys your materials 30 days. He installs stuff in your house, never pays for the materials he used, and his supplier puts a lien on your house. You have no choice but to pay for materials, again. I may not be remembering this right, having read this stuff years ago, but there's all kinds of stuff like this you need to know.

Don't be discouraged, though; people have done it, and you can do it too. Do your homework, and then be assertive. You paid for cabinets, installed correctly. It is harder to have leverage when you've already paid them, as you've learned, but don't give up.

You seem bothered by the holes in the wall. Those are easy to fix, much much easier than unlevel cabinets with counters already installed over them. A little spackle, and touch up paint (if flat enough) or another coat of paint. It's normal, from what I understand, to need touch-up paint at the end of jobs anyway.

Any damage to the drywall can be fixed. Yes, holes = no big deal. Ripping out crown molding, patching ceiling, and replacing crown = no big deal.

Cabinets out of level = A Big Deal.

Deal with it now, not later. Resolution should include removal and reinstallation of cabinets, counters, and crown (anything else you haven't shown us?).

I was hesitate to suggest legal action, but I would pursue it (or at least be prepared to). If you are prepared to do this, I'll add (courtesy of the consumer protection attorney in my pocket, aka my sister, who helped me through a similar situation): If you decide to ask the company to resolve the installation issues, do NOT accept anything for free unless (a) they admit they screwed up and (b) they put in writing that they will re-do ALL of it and/or be responsible for future damage resulting from poor installation. At least in the states where I've lived, accepting partial resolution in the short-term can hurt your legal chances of being made "whole" later.

Along ^ line, you may have to legally give the guys who screwed up a chance to make it right.

There is a reason so many of us leave jobs like this to GC's although some GC's are no better than what you wound up with too.

I couldn't agree more with that entire statement, cpartist...the last part in particular..

Perhaps, like me, Layla (the OP) has worked with some of those GCs in the past, which is why she decided that, for this project, she might as well manage it herself. (I'm inclined to do the same, btw, for my next project.)

@jellytoast and others who point out that basically I’m not qualified to act as my own GC and am not saving money by trying to do so: There’s truth to that. Ultimately I’m responsible for not verifying the install was plumb and square, and you have a valid point. I knew the installation itself was critical, and I knew the cabinets need to be square. I totally dropped the ball on verifying that they were. On the other hand, as Sammy pointed out, some GC’s are no better than what I wound up with. This could have ended up a non-issue, or the same way – or even worse. In any event we’re dependent on (1) our own knowledge + information from the GC or (2) our own knowledge + information from the installers/tradesmen.

When we bought the house 2 years ago we hired a GC to install hardwood floors (in ½ the house) and to handle what was going to be a much larger kitchen remodel (bump into the garage and tear down another wall instead of keeping the same footprint). It was a really bad experience. First, we paid a premium for sub-par hardwood floor install/finish. Had I learned more on my own about HW floor install and finishes rather than relying on information from the GC and his sub we would have done the floors differently. It was a disappointing and costly mistake. I learned there are risks with a GC as well as without a GC, and that hiring a GC doesn’t guarantee desired results. We did get a bid from another GC to handle the scaled-down kitchen redo this year. Ultimately we weighed the risks vs costs in either scenario (GC vs no GC) and decided to GC ourselves. This isn’t the right decision for everyone, but I still believe it was the right decision for us despite the situation we’re dealing with.

The KD came out yesterday along with one of the original installers and an install project manager. The project manager recommended tearing out the counter that has ½” shim, and install the cabinets correctly. Also tear out the crown moulding where it’s bad/ugly and re-do. All doors that have cosmetic imperfections will be replaced. At this point we are satisfied with the proposed solution, although it’s certainly not over.

I can’t say how much I appreciate all your comments and help! Thank you!!

Layla, years ago, I was a new manager working with other new managers. We made mistakes, we worked with each other fixing our errors. One of our group commented that management was "common sense." Perhaps implying we were not using common sense. Another of our group added "and experience"

management is using common sense and experience.

one can lead without experience, but I think management requires experience.

I won't add anything new except that improper installation is a big safety issue

once upon a time all the impoperly installed cabinets in my Mom's kitchen fell down on my Mom that was in her kitchen that very moment..all the upper cabs, with glass and all

fortunately she had a friend over, helped her to get from under that heavy mess because you can be sure it knocks you off your feet, and you need to be very lucky to end up being not severely hurt

keep that in mind, besides how it looks like, even though I'd be furious about how it looks like as well

your house is supposed to be your shelter not crumbling down on you

I'm glad to hear they do want to make things right..I do hope they bring different installers for that.

I would still dispute the charges NOW. I didn't in my situation thinking we were working it out. Nope. When I did eventually dispute the charges the credit company asked me why I waited so long. I felt stupid at that moment saying I thought we were working it out. You can always tell the credit card company later that they resolved all issues. Keep the financial pressure on and let ur hubby go off to work

I think your best bet is consistent and reasonable pressure. People tend to meet excessive action with excessive resistance. Be firm but very polite, the less you will budge the nicer you should be. The power of smiling really big and saying "that isn't going to work" can be tremendous.

I would still dispute the charges NOW.

This is really not disputable. Disputing a charge is for unauthorized charges, amounts, products and services that you didn't receive, and receipt of the wrong product. You can do that if you want to but if you have to go to court the merchant can sue for interest during the time of dispute even if you win the case.

I’m not qualified to act as my own GC and am not saving money by trying to do so: There’s truth to that. Ultimately I’m responsible for not verifying the install was plumb and square, and you have a valid point. I knew the installation itself was critical, and I knew the cabinets need to be square.

A G.C. will add some quality enhancements to a job because it makes two separate entities responsible for quality, the G.C. and the cabinet installer.

However, in the end your legal rights as the homeowner are the same with or without a G.C. You are allowed to seek remedy from one entity, if you hired a G.C. you must pursue remedy from him, and if not you must seek remedy from whoever you paid for the installation.

Ultimately the responsibility for the work is the installer's, whether through a G.C. or not.

Whether or not you saved money really depends on the final cost and the final product. I do think that any savings are going to end up being a major headache.

"The power of smiling really big and saying "that isn't going to work" can be tremendous." I agree 100% and try to remember this whenever something seems to be going sideways.

Layla, I'm so glad to hear that the prognosis has improved. I hope they stay on the right track - and I look forward to seeing your lovely "after-after" photos when all is said and done!

" ... as Sammy pointed out, some GC’s are no better than what I wound up with. This could have ended up a non-issue, or the same way – or even worse ... I learned there are risks with a GC as well as without a GC, and that hiring a GC doesn’t guarantee desired results."

I completely agree! I also understand that one can get soured pretty severely after a bad experience so I do get where you are coming from. The point I was trying to make is that if one needs a knowledgeable GC to run the job, they either need to BE one or hire one. I do hope that things are resolved to your satisfaction.

Can someone tell me if this is correct or not? The bottom cabinets are not level. The custom cabinet maker is saying this is normal and most people look up not down so it will not matter once doors and drawers are installed. Thank you

He is a lying idiot. Cabinets must be installed level, plumb, and on plane to each other, no matter what the floors, walls, and ceiling are doing.