Since funerals are mentioned over and over in this thread, I need to say something. My dad died on Thanksgiving Day and his funeral was a graveside service (his preference and pre-plan). It was 17 degrees that morning and I did wear jeans and boots to his funeral because the outfit that I had brought looked ridiculous with the thermal underwear that I had to wear that day. Did that make me disrespectful? Absolutely not!!!

When I see all those tattoos (or any, for that matter!), I always wonder just how awful they will look when that young, taut skin is old and flabby. It ain't going to be pretty...

People are beautiful for who they are. There is character in the old. I am not buying into the koolaid that says that young and taut is it and the old should just cover themselves with burkas. There was a thread recently about an old copper pot, the poster was asking whether to keep it or throw it away, and everyone said that it had beauty and of course it should be kept and displayed.

If one can find beauty in an old pot, surely there is beauty in people that have been around for a while.

If she has high tech skills, or a proven track record trading stocks and making money (just for example), It would be a stupid employer indeed who would not look out for their own self interest and hire her.

I hope she has entrepreneurial skills then, because many employers may not get past the look to even find out what her skills are. They say employers decide whether they will hire you within the first 6-7 minutes.

More than 273 managers and 3,280 employees were asked about their interview experiences

• Around 70 per cent said a candidate's make-up creates a first impression
• More than two thirds of employers are immediately put off by tattoos
• Half of interviewers said they judge a candidate based on a handshake

I've seen other studies that suggest even less time than that.

I worked for several phone tech support companies and we had all sorts, from school marm outfits to pierced and tattooed with mohawks. As long as they had technical skills and abided by the dress code of clean and no see-through and no bits hanging out, no problem. The customers never saw them anyway. By the way, one of the most tattooed and pierced and intimidating in appearance was a cat rescuer and the nicest person you could meet. Never judge a book by its cover.

There are a lot of old people in my family. They always show up for what I would call our important events, weddings, graduations, funerals Etc. They may be wearing thick socks, tennis shoes, baggy pants, pull over tops because they can no longer do buttons, and crocheted hats that they made themselves. I am always glad to see them. As far as appropriate attire for a funeral, I think that as long as they show up, that's enough to be grateful for. I've told this on this Forum before, but I once went to a funeral for a six-year-old child. His mother sat on the front row, sobbing. She had a large butterfly tattoo on one shoulder, visible because she was wearing a black cocktail dress, probably the only black dress she had, and she had on flip-flops. This poor young woman probably could not have told you if she had shoes on at all.

I think "the times, they are-a changin'" to quote Bob Dylan. Tattoos are really becoming mainstream today. If no one hired a tatted person there would be nobody in the workforce. I loved looking at some of those fierce and attractive older people (many of them my age) with their bold tattoos. You probably won't see a buttoned up lawyer with a bunch of tats, but a tech person? Some one who works at google or Apple?

We are not talking about circumstances precluding a person's ability to choose what to wear to a funeral or anywhere else (weather, poverty, frailties). We're talking about people whose choices collide with the norm for specific occasions in specific locations. There are different 'norms'. We're all free to like or dislike the way a person presents him/her self, including attitude and dress.

A recent Agony Aunt column was from the wife of a businessman who thought to welcome a man new to the company, and his wife, by inviting them out to dinner at a country club. The wife wore a transparent black negligee. The hostess asked how to avoid ever having to appear in public (or anywhere) with this couple in the future. She had attempted to inform the woman that her dress was inappropriate, but got the same kind of reply we are hearing from some here -- that 'other people' could take her as she came or leave her.

My choice: Leave her. She offends and doesn't care that she does.

I was just going to say something very similar to Chisue. People are free to dress how they want, have tattoos. I am free to have an opinion of how they look!

Tackykat, agree. I, however, usually don't have an opinion. I never remember what anyone else wore anywhere unless they go Stevie Nicks (in her heyday) awesome; or if they go in plumber's crack pants, "tug them down" hip hop pants, or those weird "one shoulder shows and the other does not" sweaters that make me want to reach out and adjust...

At any rate, my thoughts might be about HOW they look, rather than about THEM as people.

I notice some people here love capris. I don't care or judge if others wear them, but personally I feel more comfy in worn-out jeans than in capris... simply because I'm 6 foot 1 and associate them ON MYSELF as not being able to find long enough slacks! They look wonderful on others; I just won't wear them, ever.

I'm retired now, but I recall going down to New Orleans in the 90's for a serious business conference, for which I bought a business outfit (skirt, jacket and all). Nearly everyone there turned out in shorts and bright casual tops, even the program presenters! Okay, yes, it is horridly hot and humid there in June, but indeed, rather than being offended, I was just sorry I used the money to buy something I maybe wore once afterwards.

(I worked in a laboratory setting... when you are around chemicals and mouse dander, you really DON'T want to wear your "Sunday best" on the day to day!)

Tattoos: I've for years promised myself a tattoo. Various age benchmarks went by, and it still hasn't happened. Indecision defeated that. I love some of the tattoos some of my friends have, and dislike some of the others. I never judge THEM (maybe their taste in selection, but maybe), even if I prefer some tattoos over others. Oh, yes, I missed my most recent benchmark: I planned to get one when I retired last year. I didn't. Still can't decide what I want! At least at age 63, it isn't going to sag more than an earlier tattoo by the time I end up at that proverbial nursing home, and I wouldn't have put one on my saggy parts of body anyway.

Live and let live. I'm on my way to being a farmer, with veggies and livestock and all. If I have to run into the grocery wearing my knee-scraped jeans, it's not my problem. It's only yours if you make it to be yours.

I'll wear nice slacks and a fine top for special events. I even have one dress, and a couple Medieval Recreation event outfits I can still fit into. I've got them, why not? Shoes, however... I am size 10.5 MENS. I have a large right toe that sticks out to the center. I have a seriously bad ankle, so wearing trannie dress shoes are out, too. People just gonna have to deal with me in my men's hiking and running shoes. I try to buy in non-obvious colors.

PS: No transparent negligees for wearing out in any color. I DO know too much TMI exposure is not something I'm interested in doing.

Annie: If she has high tech skills, or a proven track record trading stocks and making money (just for example), It would be a stupid employer indeed who would not look out for their own self interest and hire her.

I hope she has entrepreneurial skills then, because many employers may not get past the look to even find out what her skills are. They say employers decide whether they will hire you within the first 6-7 minutes.

More than 273 managers and 3,280 employees were asked about their interview experiences

• Around 70 per cent said a candidate's make-up creates a first impression
• More than two thirds of employers are immediately put off by tattoos
• Half of interviewers said they judge a candidate based on a handshake

I've seen other studies that suggest even less time than that.

***

I've been on the interview panel at work. Unfortunately, heavy people (noticeably heavy, not just a bit overweight) turn off more interviewers than what they happened to be wearing. But maybe the sciences are different. (No one ever came in with visible tattoos, however.)

Just to be clear, I do believe in being dressed for the occasion. I take it very seriously. So much so, I donate to Dress for Success. That doesn't mean I won't rail against judging someone by how they look; it is but one facet of who we are. Some can't dress better, some don't want to, and different tastes will make it so that folks can't agree what exactly is proper to wear.

Funny story....

I have to wear a suit or dress 6 days a week. On Saturday morning, I like to garage sale or flea market. I wear decent jeans and a pretty polo shirt most Saturdays. A friend called and wanted me to go to the famed "Magnolia" store with her. I hopped in her car and off we went. When we arrived, the owner stared me up and down and decided I wasn't worth her time......

I could easily have bought anything they had for sale, but didn't spend a dime.

Blessings,

J

"Tattoos are really becoming mainstream today. "

Not in my area. Other than those with clerical jobs, this isn't true for visible markings in the white collar and professional private sector I know. Same for extreme and visible piercings.

"More than two thirds of employers are immediately put off by tattoos"

I don't know where or when this survey was taken but with some employers I'd think the percentage is higher.

Visible tattoos just don't make a good impression on many people. The plumber we use has many, that doesn't bother me at all. (Don't think this is a class thing for me because it isn't. I'm a big supporter of blue collar tradesmen. I respect and value the work they do). But if my dentist or my car insurance guy or my lawyer appeared with external body adornments, I'd find other providers to use. Many I know share that perspective. I think tattoos are hideous and a sign of people who are bored with themselves or think it's the only way they can get attention from others.

I went to my library yesterday and as I stood there having my books checked out I could see all the way down the young woman's low cut blouse. She also displayed shoulders and arms covered with tattoos. I felt a real pang in my heart---I wanted to fling her out the front door and tell her not to come back until she could show some respect for the dear old place. I worked there for 35 years and just felt it was wrong.

elmer, how do you know? Do you make those white collar dudes strip down so you can see their lack of tattoo?

HA! I am kidding. Even though, there is no way you could know if that is true.

ETA: I read it straight off your comment. Nothing about visible. May have been what you meant, but it aint what you said. Visible piercings, but nothing specific about tattoos. And it was a joke, snidely.

"'Tattoos are really becoming mainstream today. '

Not in my area. Other than those with clerical jobs, this isn't true
of the white collar and professional private sector I know. Same for
extreme and visible piercings."

Tattoos may be more mainstream than they used to be, but if you have one on your forearm or neck I'm automatically going to have a less-than-favorable impression of you.

Visible tattoos, rob. You can go ahead and get a heart tattoo on your bicep with "Elmer" inside as you were planning. Just wear sleeved blouses to work.

Rob you beat me ..lol.

From Elmers comment I almost take it as an attorney wouldn't have a tatoo but a plumber would...I suppose a big shot wall street suit wouldn't either but a trash collector would.

Sure it does, rob! Read it again.

(As a matter of integrity, I never change comments after the fact. In this case, my haste left out a key element of my comment leading to some misdirection so I fixed the error.)

I wasn't interested in bumping up the thread, so I added it to the earlier comment. However, I also prefaced with ETA (meaning Edited to Add, as has been done numerous times before I ever did it) for the sake of integrity. But whatever. It was a JOKE!

I knew, I know, I shall know.

I'm glad that young woman made it to the library. And I don't know that I would believe a person who told me that anybody showed up for anything in public in a black negligee.

Elmer, my first thought too, was how do you know? It made me think of men who regularly ride motorcycles. Of course many, many people ride Harleys, including lawyers, accountants, etc.

There is a clerk at a grocery store who always wears long sleeves, and her neck covered. She wears braids and has bangs and looks very much like Abby on CSI. She told me that she has 'sleeves' tattoos and is heavily tattooed on her chest and has to keep them covered, as she's dealing with the public.

I don't particularly like tattoos, especially a lot of them. It's real turn-off for me seeing a bride with a strapless gown, as they pretty much all are, with her back, and front with tats.

I have a cousin who's a tattoo artist and he does fabulous work. It's not my favorite medium, but what he does is amazing. I've also found that getting people to talk about their tats is one of the easiest ways to open a conversation with them. Each one has a story and it triggers something very emotional in them.

I'm not one much for tats, yet I am considering one to cover the scar from my neck surgery, since it's already damaged skin. I'll have to talk to him about it...

Of course, then again, I hope to never again be in the position of looking for work....

A "talented tattoo artist" holds as much interest for me as a "talented graffiti vandal".

Judgement police - get ready. For me, visible tattoos make people look trashy. The more they have, the trashier the appearance. A conversation starter? I don't think so, I can't imagine anything of less interest. As I said, it seems the domain of people who are bored with themselves and are lacking pride and self confidence. People should have lives, goals, interests, activities that they can talk about and friendliness and a personal radiance that attract attention. Tattoos don't fill the void when someone's life is lacking substance and these normal things.

.......and not that I disagree, Elmer, as we all have a right to our an opinion.......but, spoken like a true person in their 60's!

Most people here on the KT are 60 and above. We have a few "youngsters" but for the most part, we are seniors.

The world "it is a changing!" You can live in a bubble, but if you go anywhere, tattoos are everywhere.

We vacationed at an upscale resort. Nicely dressed women of means had sprinklings of tattoos.

To my eyes, I don't mind one or two. Once a person starts covering themselves, this becomes a distraction for me. But, to those in that world, like Annie says, it is art and it is interesting.

Although many people get tattoos for what I consider the wrong reasons, to say they fill a void in one's life without substance pretty darn narrow minded. Talk about lack of substance.

Tattoos often are a celebration of life and can be very personal and unique to the individuals who have them. Mine is. I didn't get it on a whim and I waited half a century to get it. Few people know I have it.

I once met one young woman who had very well done design of a handgun and gunshots done on the inside of her forearm. The line work and shading was outstanding. I asked her about it. She told me she had been very close to an uncle who was very much involved in her upbringing. He taught her to shoot. One of their favorite things was spending time at the range together, target shooting. Her tattoo commemorates a loving uncle who passed away and some of the best times together. Sweet young woman, a country girl, conservative and loving. So someone might see a firearm tattoo and think guns/crime/gang but there could be an entirely different real story.

Another women I knew back before tattoos became mainstream had tattoo running up the outside of her leg from ankle to upper thigh. Her tat commemorated the story of her family, staring with those who were lost to the holocaust and some who survived. It was beautiful art, with climbing roses interwoven with symbols, animals etc. A timeline of her life and those before her.

Has anyone seen the tattoo work that has been done to camouflage scars on the chests of women who have had breast cancer surgery? It is beautiful.

No judgeing on dress codes, but does judge on tatoos...appears you write the book.

Yes I have seen the tattooing they've done not just for breast surgery, but for facial damage as well. It's quite stunning.

They are now also inking in voice prints of loved ones. There's an app on the phone that allows you to scan and play back the voice.

There are now also tattoos that have medical purposes that will e.g. change colors if your blood sugar gets too high or too low.

My cousin tried to sell art for people's walls, but few would buy. But they will pay him big $$ to put his art on their skin, so that's what he does. One gal he's been working on is a botanist and he's had to put anatomically correct flowers, leaves and blossoms on her. It's quite stunning. The one I couldn't believe though was the guy who wanted the Last Supper on his back! Ouch!

On the "Bold And The Beautiful" soap a girl has the ribbon symbol on the back of her neck. It isn't very large and kind of cute. It may not be real but she has had it since she came on the soap. A friend of mine has a tiny rose on her ankle. It's cute but no tattoos for me!

I wear a shirt and tie when I teach. I teach college. There is no dress code but I need to set from the get go a boundary between myself and the students. I also think it shows I take myself seriously as a professional. Some of my younger colleagues and the grad students are much more casual. Do not get me started on how some of the students dress. Pajama bottoms to class. I guess if you live in the dorms but come on ...

Good for you, Scott!!!

You will be respected.

I know many, many people in their 20s and 30s whose opinions of tattoos and those who have them are similar to mine. This isn't an "everyone has one" fad, far from it.

I like to see teachers in more business clothing. All of the teachers in our elementary school where my grands go dress casual business. They all look very neat and very much like a teacher and not a student. There is a secretary there, front desk in the office..the last time I seen her last May she was wearing what looked like a long shirt as a dress it was seriously short to the point if she even started to bend over it would have been a moon. She did have flesh toned tight leggings on which took awhile for me to even realize she had on leggings. I'm guessing her age mid 50's. I thought it was very inappropriate. And the high school well lets just say many of the female teachers seem like they are competing with the teen girls.

Good grief, I didn't read all this!!

But I did have reason to visit my local high school today. Two teenage girls walking along in shorts, and I wouldn't call them "short shorts," they were more like denim panties with the bottom of their buts peeking out in the back. Really, girls? You want the boys to see your buts? I just don't think it's a good idea and not ladylike. Call me old fashioned.

Socks, I don't get that either. Do they not look at themselves from the back. Do they realize what others are seeing? Sad if the answer is yes.

I think the answer is yes....teen girls like all age of girls and I bet ourselves included dress and look at all angles in the mirror. Oh ya you can bet these girls know what's hanging out and seek out these types of clothing for that exact reason.

I remember the day we couldn't get out the door without our parents seeing what were wearing..not now days, actually they see they just allow it. I'd grab my girl up by her ears and march her rear to the wardrobe to change.

Not all teens dress to show their....stuff. a lot do I know but there's also girls that dress more teen appropriate.

I seen a girl in Walmart recently wearing cut off jeans with her crack showing they were so low cut and in the front I almost think the bottom of her belly was showing....

I remember years ago seeing a child psycholigist on some talk show talking about teen girls dressing in revealing clothing he said girls that have a good home life with parents that show love and tell their kids daily I love you are less likely to dress revealing...he said love your daughter so well that she thinks you let the sun out every day just for her. I don't know if there's any merit to this but I thought it interesting.

Parents only have so much control. I remember in HS, a gal on the bus who would get on, then roll her skirt up much shorter and put on make up she wasn't allowed to wear. Every ride home, she did the reverse-- cleaned off her makeup and rolled her skirt down to knee length.

My girls weren't as bad, but there were questionable things. Tank tops with the bra straps showing are one look I can do without.

The middle school guidance counselor's favorite expression was, "Dress for school, not the beach."

They also said that girls would leave their home with a sweatshirt only to take it off and display a revealing top.

Then they tried to do a finger tip test. Girls short should be shorter than the tips of their fingers when their arms were straight.

ETA: Annie we posted at the same time. Yes, that was usually the parochial school girls with the plaid pleated skirts.

Right, Annie. We have to pick and choose our issues with teenagers. If we nitpick them about every little thing, when something more important comes along comes along, they are no longer listening.

IMO letting your teen daughter out the door with her private body parts quite visable is not nit picking nor does it fall into a **every little thing** catagory.

Kids are going to do what kids are going to do. Giving guidance and setting expectations are one thing. To prohibit something only insures it will be done out of view.

This is another example (of many) displaying how really good parenting isn't easy but the consequences of those who fail are easy to find. Everywhere you look.

I don't think it's fair to blame parents for how teens dress. If they buy the clothes, sure, place some blame. But teens are smart and they have peers and friends and many ways to do what they want anyway.

I'm a strong proponent of giving teens some freedom and the ability to learn from their mistakes, within reason. A 16 year old dressing skimpy will soon be an 18 year old with newly found independence. The ones who are sheltered, who are nit picked, the ones forced to sneak around are the ones who often get in trouble when college rolls around and they haven't learned how to self-regulate. The sudden freedom can be overwhelming and occasionally ends tragically. Clothing is a less dramatic trigger than something like drinking but it's still a lesson in making good choices. They have to learn sometime and not everyone learns by parent warnings or examples.

chi, kids can be "not sheltered" and "not nit picked" and be given plenty of freedom but still remain within a range of (flexible) parental guidance as to good choices under the circumstances and what's in the kids' best interest.

Are parents responsible for how what they do and don't do in raising their kids can affect what happens as their kids become adults? Of course. Is it reasonable to place "some" blame on parents for their kids' poor behavior and choices while on the path to adulthood? You bet it is.

I agree, Snidely. I wasn't talking in absolutes or saying that kids should be given complete freedom to learn from their mistakes. I wouldn't let my 16 year old stay out all night in bars to find out the consequences. It's a balance between parental guidance and letting them figure it out. Each kid is different and the parents need to find the correct balance.

In my experience the trouble comes when the parents inject too much of their own morality to the point where the kid is feeling like they can't make their own choices. In college, I knew quite a few people like that and it didn't always end well.

I'm all for parents letting kids make choices good and bad within reason. How else can these kids grow and learn on their march to adulthood.but there's a time when parents need to step up to the parental plate. I have heard the **pick my battles** speal...Mrs XXX said the same thing when her daughter was caught smoking pot she reacted with ** well its not a needle and I have to pick my battles** I'm not a new parent raising these grands. I've also raised two adult sons who once upon a time were kids and brought friends home..I interacted with kids and their parents and I've mentioned before that hubs and I both worked for Children and Youth at the Childrens Bureau for more years than I should have. If I had a dime for every parent that said I have to pick my battles. I'd be rich...but what I realized more times than not was the parents picking their battles did no such thing... no actions from their kids ever provoked that fight. I'm not saying that there arnt parents that draw a hault to certain actions, but there's a lot that don't and a lot that use the pick my battles as a cope out because they dont know what to do.

I'm not talking about tight or mini skirts I'm talking about body parts hanging out. And couldn't self respect play a role in the emotional health of these kids as they become adults.

The director of my children's preschool taught me a very important parenting lesson early on. She discussed what she called the parenting V where when the children are young you have a great deal of control, as they get older the control lessens as the V opens up. She told me to make sure I exercised my control properly, so that I would never be in the position of needing to exercise it later when I could not.

In this conversation that means if your teenager thinks leaving the house with body party hanging out is acceptable, then you are too late to the parenting table and having a battle of wills will likely have an even worse result.

As Mamapinky said, the underlying issue with dressing like that is self-respect. And I cannot think of something more important to give my children than that. How to ensure your children have said self-respect is a discussion for another time- as is the difference between self-respect and self-esteem. I am not at all sure those two concepts are the same.

The goal is to bring up children who are able to make good decisions from when they are little. And Chi's point about making mistakes in a safe environment is truly key. But if your relationship has become one of a power struggle over dressing by the teen years, then I doubt you will have an effective course of action. The clothing is a symptom of the bigger problem.

Yes chi, exactly.

Rita, I agree with your "too late to the table" illustration. That happens far too often for many in many situations, not just clothing choices.

Picking battles? Having battles? No, that's not it at all. Some may think that's how to handle the more serious circumstances going in the wrong direction but in those cases, it's likely the situations are already lost (from the parents' standpoint) and well past the point of managing already. Too often, these are situations when parents are "too late to the table", as Rita described.

My daughter couldn't wait to grow up. She had rules, and generally was good with them. We decided that when she turned 18 we might take another look at the rules.

After she turned 18, the only thing she wanted to do was stay all night and Denny's and drink coffee. So I let her, and she and a friend went off. Daughter came home around 2:00. She got bored.