Hi Kelton, (Special tip; reconsider the initials... they are used to denote "bankruptcy" in the biz... ;~) The realtor said it was a short sale, and I had to ask "what's that mean?". So, she says that the bank is selling the house and claims that the price is based on what is owed on the house. *IF* you are recalling and accurately re-stating what the Realtor® actually said, she is a dolt. A) A shortsale is NOT sold by a bank, but by the owner who is in default. The bank retains effective right to kill the deal if the offer is too low by refusing to release their lien for that offer and then proceed to foreclosure & auction... but the bank cannot "own" the home until after foreclosure, and therefore cannot "SELL" the home, B) A shortsale (properly negotiated) is typically struck at roughly the actual comparable-supported market price, or 80%-ish of the bank's lien note. If the Realtor® you were talking to was the listing agent (or any affiliate of the listing agent) then they're further blowing smoke up your yoohoo. As others have already explained, the short-sale process cannot be relied on to happen quickly. If you are shopping for your personal nest, you must decide if you are willing to sit out the 3-12 month chaotic and unpredictable negotiation process... most nest-shoppers have no such patience for the B.S. (In fact, very few profit-hungry greedy-bastahd INVESTORS have such patience!) If you DO, you ought to be prepared for a 3-12 month reality, with a non-insignificant chance the whole thing could collapse and become unavailable out from under your offer at any time (even after you are 8 months & 3 weeks into it) because the seller dies, declares bankruptcy, or initiates (or defends) a lawsuit. Luck! Dave Donhoff Leverage Planner (Greedy-bastahd real estate investor, and professional shortsale negotiator)

I won't comment on ojoy's post other than to say that they are incorrect with their foreclosure statements. A lender advertising a foreclosure auction is required by statute. It puts people on notice that an auction is likely to occur. It does not, however, give the lender any rights to control the property. The owner (mortgagee) may sell the property without the lender's permission until the lender actually takes title. They also don't need a judge's authorization unless there is a BK filing. Then, they might. But, even with a BK...they might NOT require the judge's approval depending on the type of BK filed. Anyway, the information you're asking about is public information, therefore, it is not disrespectful or nosey to seek out that info. You're doing nothing wrong or "under the table". There is a myriad of reasons why somebody would be interested in knowing this type of information about a property. You asked about the two different recordings a year apart...it could mean that a new lien was placed on the property. But, it could also be a "correction" document. You're just guessing & so am I. The only way to know for sure is to pay for the documents & look at them. Then you'll know if it's a new lender filing a junior (or, subordinate) lien. If you're really interested in purchasing this property....drive yourself over to the county courthouse & look at the documents. To do less, is failing to do proper "due-diligence" & makes you quite likely to make mistakes. You know what they say about, "assumptions". I would NEVER trust an on-line representation of the true recorded liens. Only what's actually at the court house & recorded matters. On-line, the data input person could have made a mistake & made omissions. Get thyself to the court house! Tricia

Some one asked why normal people (without whupping out their documents); B) Don't remember the terms of their insurance policies, My first homeowner's policy, I read cover to cover. There were several instances where the language was so muddy that I couldn't understand it at all. (And I've edited securities law treatises, so I'm used to muddy language). So I took it to the insurance agent. When I pointed out how it didn't make sense, he agreed it didn't. But he couldn't explain it to me either. C) Don't know the instruments invested in their 401(k)s, I've tried and tried to find out what was in some of the funds in my 401k (the 'life cycle funds'). Even when I thought I'd gotten it (the 401k representative visited the office and gave me some ticker symbols to use on Yahoo Finance) it turned out I was given the wrong info. Plus, I once called trying to find out what the fees are. They said 'there are no fees.' Bull. Of course there are fees. There are always bloody fees. They're just so thoroughly hidden that you'll never, ever find them in any document. At least in that 401k plan. D) Don't know their own marginal tax brackets, Given that this isn't on one's pay stub, and given that when you file your taxes, there are so many things to add and subtract, I'd be surprised to learn that anyone knows their tax bracket. The tax code is so complicated that no one understands it, not even the IRS. F) Don't know whether their employee-benefit life insurance is cash value or term, Again, if I ever got any documents on this, I'd pass out in a dead faint. H) Don't know the costs of insurance subtracted (openly or opaquely) from their paycheck, Due to the recent sale of my company, our paychecks have been royally screwed up for the last month. I actually had to create a spreadsheet to figure out how they'd messed up. Again, since there's no disclosure of what percentage each item is, and they routinely combine things like medicare and SS, and--just for fun--they disclose insurance costs on a monthly basis, but pay biweekly, it's really, really difficult to determine what's correct. As far as 'everyone should always know what they're signing,' I've been to 2 doctors' offices now where there's a electronic signature pad (like the ones at the checkout counter at the grocery) and they tell you to sign it. "This is for the HIPAA disclosure,' and 'this is for the insurance.' You have absolutely no way of knowing if you're signing what they say you're signing, or if there's anything 'unusual' in there. I have no idea how this is legal, but there it is. There;s no use saying 'see another doctor' because there's only so many that the insurance will allow you to see (and I won't even get into figuring out health insurance rules). Bottom line: things are routinely hidden from people--consumers--to prevent them knowing exactly how they're spending their money or what they're signing their names to. They're hidden by using tiny text, complicated language, abstruse math, impenetrable phone trees, and rules that can be changed on a whim (but only by the business). Most business dealings people engage in nowadays are skating on the edge of adhesion contracts. The laws that exist for disclosure are routinely sidestepped thru the use of the aforementioned tactics. What good is disclosure if the part about the fees you'll have to pay are hidden in a footnote on page 57 in 6-pt type? And don't talk about 'competition.' What help is that when all the companies in an industry do things the same way? (Anyone sign up for cell phone service without an early termination penalty--even if their service stinks? Didn't think so.) I hope some day Americans learn to push back and demand that the businesses they deal with actually serve them, fairly, disclosing all terms and conditions upfront and in simple language.

Thank you for the comments. Let's see if I can cover them. 1. It seems that no matter where I put the DW, it's not going to be optimal. If I put it to the left of the sink, the door sticks out into the doorway a bit. I looked up the product manual for a frigidaire we had looked at and its listed dimensions have it sticking out about 5 inches beyond the door frame. If I put it to the right of the sink, it ends up sitting right next to the refrigerator generating heat. My best guess for locating the dishes in this kitchen (plates and glasses anyway) would be up and to the right of the sink when I get that cabinet installed. I hadn't put much time into storage locations yet though. 2. I rotated the diagram some to display my problem area better: the bay window storage. In the most recent image, the bottom right is an existing pantry and the bottom left is the bathroom. I'm not attached to the pantry at all, I just didn't want to go to the effort / expense of removing it unless it bought me a better layout. 3. I agree, I'm all about more storage there. I modeled all three options at one point. The version I posted was just the most recent one I was looking at. If we do put a counter in there, its primary goal in life would indeed be a stuff / junk collector to keep it off the rest of the counters. I'd never expect any actual functional use as a counter out of it. I think I looked at all of their different options, but the closest thing I found with less than 24" depth was a utility cabinet that didn't appear to have any shelves. I'll check again though. If I can't find one, is it feasible to "stack" one or two wall cabinets on top of the 12" base unit? The studs would be carrying the actual weight anyway and not the base unit, so the stacking would be purely cosmetic. 3a. I did model the kitchen with the island in another version as well. The distance on that side was less problematic than the distance between the island and the windows by quite a bit. I'm still playing with the numbers on that one, but best guess at this point is moving the island out another 2-4 inches from my original location in order to better accommodate seating around it. I'm going by the house today with some painters tape to outline the options on the floor and see how it all fits together in person. 3b. I hadn't even considered moving the drywall pantry to there. Good idea if I can make it work. 4. Thanks for the info, I hadn't priced the details on any of these cabinets yet, so the exact details of what type of cabinet goes where may still change. I'm hoping to go do that this weekend. Those do indeed sound expensive, so I'll check out the third party ones. 5. I honestly hadn't given a lot of priority to the sink yet either. I'll have to ask the wife if she has a preference. I've always had a double basin sink, so I just drew what I knew without giving it much thought.