What an exciting project. Galley kitchens are my favorites. Having said that, I am not one of the lay-out mavens here, I am am no help on that score.

About the appliances, you may want to post on the appliance forum for lots and lots of great feedback.

From my point of view, Miele is a great brand. My kitchen is half Miele and half Gagg. Have you considered a Miele refrigerator? I really like their refrigerators.

With respect to a microwave, again, I am not a good person to ask since I did not have a big need for one before I got a CSO and I certainly see no point in them after CSO.

From GW I have learned that the key to warming drawer usage is its placement. If you can fit one close to your cooktop then you have a greater chance of using it. Consider how you cook and entertain to decide whether or not this is worth the effort.

I am not a fan of pot fillers. When I need to add water to a soup, I use the kettle on my cooktop.

I like islands all at the same height.

I am not a believer in built in coffee makers. What happens to all the built in trim and such once they break and need replacement?

I love having a trash/recycling drawer.

I don't have anything special for appliance storage. They go into drawers and cupboards. I don't have too many appliances: a mixer, food processor, waffle iron, immersion blender, toaster goes into breakfast cupboard, a manual pasta machine.

I don't remember what hood I got. Maybe Vent-a-hood? Maybe Modernaire?

Good luck on your project. Be sure to post over in appliances. The folks there will have lots of feedback on your specific choices.

Can you post the 2D layouts separately so they are bigger?

A 2D floor plan with measurements will help. Sharp makes many of the different microwaves. You could look at their drawer units.

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the quick feedback and sorry for not posting 2D designs earlier! I hope what I post below has enough detail.

Here is a crop of the one I posted earlier, showing "Option 1".

Here are some more detailed measurements from the permitting plans that were submitted. (I am pretty sure the island is 13' long even though it's not shown here.)

And finally, here is the rest of the first floor in case you're curious about overall design/placement.

Thanks!

-joe

Thanks Rita! I definitely recall lots of opinions that the warming drawer needs to be located close to oven / cooktop and at a good height to be useful (i.e. people who had them at floor height didn't use them as much). I appreciate the other tips as well. I was leaning against the built-in coffee systems, but am glad to get other opinions on this.

FYI, I did go ahead and post to the appliances forum as well:

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4754765/m=23/feedback-on-kitchen-appliance-selection-miele-subzero

I haven't yet looked at Miele refrigerators but will add them to the list.

Thanks!

-joe

slab counters? If so, I am pretty sure you will *Have* to have a seam in that island. Is that going to be okay with you?

Good question - I hadn't thought about that. We are just starting material selection and were leaning towards Quartz countertops. We used Pental Carrera in a previous remodel and were very happy with that. That option hid seams fairly well.

Do you have any opinions on strategy for this layout? I.e. I am pretty sure we have to have an island run that long, so it's mostly a matter of figuring out how to best deal with that unless we can find a slab that runs that long.

Thanks!

-joe

With natural stone you can you bookmatch slabs to nice effect.

The lack of counter space near stove would be a deal killer for me in option 1. I guess the idea is that you would do most of prep on the island with the prep sink, but still think it would be an annoyance.

In option 2, I'd probably move the sink down so it was not directly opposite the cooktop. It might not matter for 1 cook, but if you ever have 2 people working in the kitchen at the same time, offset is better.

How wide is the main aisle?

I vote for the option that has counter space immediately adjacent to the fridge.

I've found when working in relative's kitchens that not having counter space right next to the fridge is so much more cumbersome.

Sorry but you don't have enough room for seating and such a deep island. Are you a one or two cook family? If one cook you need an aisle space of a minimum of 42" work space from counter to whatever sticks out furthest. (usually the door handles of the fridge)

If you're a 2 cook (or more) family then you need a minimum of 48" of aisle work space.

What is the full width of the kitchen?

Also honestly your first layout isn't very workable. You'll be running from one end of the kitchen to the other and you barely have enough room to put stuff down on either side of your cooktop.

If you haven't read the New to Kitchens thread yet, I HIGHLY recommend it.

Thanks for the feedback. I am having second thoughts about Option #1 based on feedback - I appreciate the insights on that. I am the primary cook but would like option for two cooks in kitchen.

Total width of kitchen is 13.25' (159"):

• 47.5" clearance from west wall (which is a La Cantina door opening up to deck) to island/seating
• 46" island / counter
• 39" clearance from island to galley wall
• 26.5" galley / counter

I have taped out these dimensions and the 39" seemed tight but workable.

Do you see a way to adjust width dimensions in this space to accommodate goals?

Thanks again for feedback, and I will take a look at the link you shared.

-joe

"I have taped out these dimensions and the 39" seemed tight but workable."

First, tape does not work well when trying to determine spacing. You have to actually experience the "mass" of the counters and island to get a true feel. So, please mock up the spacing using boxes the same height and width as what you are proposing and attempt to work in the space for a few weeks (so the "newness" wears off). You need to include things as what will impact the space - e.g., the placement of the refrigerator and what it will do to drive traffic and the overall placement of the Kitchen and the inevitable traffic based on it's location.

Second, if you plan to have 2 people working in the Kitchen and all three primary work zones are on in that one aisle/space, then I don't think 39" will be wide enough. Then, add in the traffic b/c the Kitchen is in the middle of the DR, LR, and FR, and I think you will have even more aisle spacing issues.

Edited to add the above explanations.

.

This is more reasonable, I think:

Total width available = 159"

• Perimeter counter = 25.5" (not 26.5")
  Not counting refrigerator b/c it's not in front of the island

• Aisle = 48"
  This is the minimum aisle for two or more cooks plus with your overall floor layout, you have the potential of having traffic streaming through your Kitchen, including the primary work area.

• Island = 41.5" deep (reduced from your 46")
  For one row of 24"D cabinets + 1" for decorative panel/door on back of cabinets + minimum recommended seating overhang of 15"

That leaves you with 44" for an aisle behind the seats.

That actually does meet the minimum aisle for walking behind the seats where there are no work counters/appliances/etc. behind the seats. I think it's doable!

.

Assuming you agree, then the layout is next!

• Would you be willing to close up the Family Room doorway to gain more wall space so you can have a reasonable amount of space b/w the sink and cooktop?

• Do you have a separate Pantry elsewhere? I didn't see one on your full-floor layout, but I thought I'd ask in case I missed it somewhere. A "built-in" reach-in/step-in/walk-in pantry is better storage than a pantry cabinet - more efficient, a better of use of space, and holds quite a bit more in the same space.

Thanks for the feedback, that is really helpful. I'll consider those modifications. I am a little nervous about reducing the island depth but I understand your concerns and recommendations.

The other layouts posted are similar to some of your suggestions. Since I never posted the cropped 2D versions of those, I'll include them here:

• Option 2:

• Option 3

Regarding your questions:

• Closing off family room doorway - Option 3 is similar to this. I don't think I want to extend the kitchen wall too much further into the family room because the intent is to enable the dining room + family room to be open enough to be configured for a long dining table (for holidays and special occasions). The other options (1 and 2) also use that space for a pair of matching built-in shelfs which I kinda like. Based on feedback from this thread, I am leaning more towards Option 2 where I move the main sink back to the island to claim back more counter space on the perimeter wall, and leave a bar sink on the perimeter wall. That is preferable to me than adding more counter space in the dining/family area.
• Walk-in pantry. No, I don't have that option. I am a little worried about this but am reasonably comfortable with the option here. I am fairly minimalist when it comes to pantry supplies, although I am not sure whether that is cause or effect! If you see an alternate option with this layout / design let me know.

Thanks!

-joe

I think your island is too long, especially for how narrow it is. What if you put a peninsula on the living room side and shorten the island?

Personally I prefer #2 as a starting point because putting the sink and dishwasher on the island frees up sufficient counter space on either side of the cooktop. I don't know if a prep sink as depicted between the pantry and cooktop would ever be used. I'd put the prep sink on the island across from the pantry. That way it could also serve as bar sink during a party. Doing this would also let you push the refrigerator into the kitchen further and maximize the size of the opening between the family and dining room. (Oh, just saw the other post -- maybe leave the fridge where it is and do a 48" instead of 42" -- 24" fridge column + 24" freezer column).

Also agree with making the island narrower as cpartist described. I would be OK with reducing the 48" main kitchen aisle to maybe 46" but I think you'd regret anything smaller than that.

Do I see cabinets below the dining room window in #3? I think that would be a great idea for additional storage to counter not having a full pantry. I'd consider merging that idea with #2.

@Stan - thanks! Yes, your interpretation is correct. I had asked to consider putting space for a mini-bar setup over towards the dining area, so I like the idea of preserving that idea (from #3) but the style of #2. I think I'd like that to be primarily styled for bar setup (e.g. liquor display) but like the idea of making that somewhat versatile for additional storage options.

Hey folks,

Thanks for all of the earlier feedback. Demolition is well underway, and we are on to framing, and in a few weeks, plumbing/electrical. I need to finalize much of the kitchen layout ahead of plumbing rough-in. So I am updating this thread with current design in hope of getting additional feedback to see if there are any issues/concerns I haven't considered. (Let me know if it's best to start a new thread given the age of this post - I opted to keep it for continuity.)

Latest floorplan:

Orientation:

• North (top of diagram): living room area (open)
• South (bottom of diagram): dining room area (open)
• West (left of diagram): deck/water view

Elevation of galley wall (east)

Elevation of island (west)

Based on the earlier feedback, we have:

• Aisle width: Increased the width between the island and galley/appliance wall to 42"
• Prep sink: Eliminated the prep sink - there didn't seem to be a compelling reason to have two sinks with this layout, and ultimately I didn't want to give up the cabinet / drawer space that this would impinge on
• Cleanup/Prep zone: Instead, placed dishwasher/sink/trash receptable on island in a way that hopefully creates reasonable separation of the cleanup, prep, and cooking zones (despite the fact that the prep and cleanup zones necessarily share a sink).
• Dishwasher: We opted to place the dishwasher on the left end of the island so that it was close to the dining area, next to the sink, and away from the cooking area. I considered moving this a little more to the center of the island to facilitate closer proximity to dish/flatware storage, but didn't like the fact that it would likely be close to the cooktop and further from dining area (i.e. inviting more traffic into cooking areas)
• Sink: We opted to place this to the right of the dishwasher so that it would be accessible to the cleanup area, adjacent to the prep area but mostly out of the way of the cooking area (it is not back to back with the rangetop)
• Trash: We opted to place this to the right of the sink so that it was near the prep area, but accessible from the cleanup area. (I read several threads that recommended trash being closer to prep area than cleanup area)
• Cooktop: Centered on the galley wall, both for aesthetics and function
• Ovens: I looked at a lot of layout options, and ultimately opted to stack the ovens bottom to top with a 30" Convection Wall Oven (bottom), 12" Warming Drawer (middle), and 24" Convection Steam Oven (top), with the 18" (tall) microwave being placed undercounter on the island, opposite the main oven stack. (All Miele - separate thread on this). The top of the oven stack is 68.5" off the ground in this configuration, which is roughly eye level for me (6' / 72" tall). The rationale was centered around assuming that the CSO would be the primary oven so we placed that in the most optimal spot, and that it would also be best to have that higher up for safety of venting steam. We also wanted to keep the warming drawer at an accessible level. The only downside is that the 30" CO/wall oven is at a less useful height (below counter), but there wasn't a great option that we liked for placing this at waist/eye level. I considered this acceptable if this is the secondary oven. We considered putting the microwave next to the refrigerator for easier access (seems like a lot of people like that), but ultimately decided that we liked the aesthetics of the current location + the increased pantry size that this offers.

Thoughts/feedback/concerns on this layout? Overall I am pretty happy and thinks it meets most of our design goals but want to see if there are any yellow/red flags in what we have planned.

The only things that are giving me a bit of pause are:

1. Aisle width - Once demo is complete I am going to try to get some boxes to mock out the 42" wide aisle to see if that feels sufficient. Taped out, it seemed fine, and from reading this forum, it seems like a good number of folks "get by" with 42" despite multiple cooks, but I know there was feedback on this thread to get this to 48" as a more standard two-cook width. To do that, I would likely take up @buehl's suggestion and reduce the walkway behind the island, and potentially the size of the island itself. But I kinda like those dimensions and chose to compromise on the kitchen aisle width a bit.
2. Dishwasher/sink placement - is this a good placement to have a good flow for prep, cooking, and cleanup?
3. Cabinet / drawer layout - we have a few weeks before we place the cabinet order so have time to fine tune this still, so I plan to go over this more closely next so that I can optimize the layout for my storage needs. If there is anything immediately problematic it would be good to know!

Thanks in advance for any insight, everyone has been immensely helpful in helping me with planning and design of this kitchen!

Joe

It's nice to have landing space next to or directly across from the fridge. You might consider moving the pantry to the left of the wall ovens (to maintain the aesthetics of the fridge location and symmetry) or swap the fridge and pantry locations.

I have 48" aisle now and would cut someone if I had smaller and had to work with someone else back-to-back. Even 48" is only good if you're offset.

Enthusiastically agree with Benjesbride re: landing space next to fridge.

I use my landing space adjacent to fridge every day.

ex:

- making sandwiches. I pull lettuce, dressing, mustard, mayo, lunch meat, cheese, olives. Since I'm not an octopus :-), I need landing space.

- loading groceries

- deciding what to toss

etc etc etc