Pink Peace is one I'm sort of meh about. It grows and does its thing, but never looks as good for me as it does in other people's gardens. I did like Lucille Ball, but she didn't have enough vigor for my conditions and died on me. And I've killed Just Joey three times. I'm never trying her again! Probably. Ugh.

Sometimes it is really hard to say because most of us base our opinion on one plant. That particular plant could be a dud or in the wrong spot. My first heritage seems like a dud since it doesn't do much. It was robust in its first year but is like a miniature this year. It is at least four years old now. The second heritage I planted seems very vigorous. Same story with Peace. It was just horrible with my first plant but the second one is so vigorous that I couldn't believe it is the same rose.

However, I will say that I will not grow Swan Lake, Golden Showers, Don Juan or Othello again. They are just one cane wonders in my garden. I will sp them later since it is really taking up space and after a very mild winter, they didn't seem to retain their cane hardiness.

At the beginning of spring I yanked out two "peace" roses. I just never really liked them because the flowers would only last a few days and it didn't seem very vigorous. I also have Lady X which I'm not crazy about at all. The lavender flowers always end up brown in what seems like a matter of hours...

This is such a fun thread.

I'm especially surprised how many people are unhappy with PJP II, it's at the near the very top of my list of most desirable varieties (large blooms, big fragrance, generous, long lasting, vigorous, easy to grow), the best white by far that I've ever grown. Just goes to show how different our experiences and preferences are.

I was unhappy with Radox Bouquet for a couple of years but in its third year it has had some gorgeous blooms. I am learning not to worry too much for the first few years .,.. blooms usually improve. But I would not plant Shailer's Provence again unless it was grafted and wouldn't sucker. It is totally taking over an entire bed. I bought a Princess Alexandra of Kent and it seems tender here...had major winter die back in a mild winter. Have not seen a good bloom yet but it's early.

Funny how different roses do in different areas different yards different soils.

my lavender Verandas one of my craziest healthiest roses I can't hardly keep that thing in check it's just goes wild I'm always cutting it back and thinning it out. However my cream Veranda even though it's blooming like crazy has had spider mites which we took care of now it seems to have powdery mildew all the leaves are curled it's a mess. But I think after it blooms maybe I'll just cut it way back. It's brand-new it should be a healthy Rose with some treatment.

Most of the roses I would not grow again are gone. Heritage (couldn't take the heat I get here), Evelyn (love her scent but she was pretty much a once bloomer in the summer), Jude the Obscure (he lived up to his name--blooms other than in spring were very obscure--hated that rose), Ambridge Rose (just didn't like the scent and it was an OK rose). Mary Webb, light lemon yellow that faded to white in two seconds. She is gone. Stingy with blooms as well for me.

My parents gave me a knockout rose which I moved to the side of the house. The rose is a good performer but just not what I tend to gravitate to in a rose).

Lady of Shalott almost got the boot but I have a rule to give a rose three years before I get rid of them. Third year and finally in her resting place which is in a shaded spot. She is doing just fine and is finally blooming quite a bit, even when it is 110 degrees outside. No more bright orange blooms either (thank goodness!)

Blue for You and Eyes for You are on probation as is Midnight Blue. Just not overwhelming in love with them. However, they are only on their second year, own root, so we shall give them another year to see how they are and if I learn to love them more.

Last one on probation is Sister Elizabeth. What a floppy mess she is with her heavy blooms and weak stems. If she goes next year, my Mary Magdelene will be placed in her spot, or my Candice which is a fantastic rose for me.

Oh, I forgot, last one on semi-probation is Alnwick. It is finally (after three years) starting to get more prolific with its blooms, but absolutely no scent for me on this rose at all. Just not wowed by this rose.

For me it would be JFK. Don't get me wrong, it performs great but I hate the flowers. Off-white/Buff, unattractive form and quickly wilt and turn brown. I had hoped the harsh winter cold we had took care of it for me but it came back with such vigor I didn't have the heart to dig it out.

Brittie - 3 times, I think, is enough!! LOL My Lucille Ball is very vigorous. Location, location, location...except it may have to go because of the PM.

This is an interesting thread!

Carol

If I really think about it Peonies..I need to get rid of them Cause Hey I'm rose crazy.

so far not impressed with Dick Clark. But it is brand new it's blooming like crazy is putting on wonderful growth and no disease but the blooms just open and turn a hideous red color and then drop period but it's a new baby and hopefully it will get better because I've seen some beautiful pictures of Dick Clark

zephirine Drouhin - the black spot! It's currently half defoliated. I bought an antifungal spray but after reading the warnings on it I'm not sure I want to spray rather than just kill the plant.

I've been tempted to get Zephirine Drouhin because it's the the best bet for a certain rose from my childhood which I'm nostalgic about. However, it's a climber, and while I can live with the odd rose needing spraying (like Blue Bajou), I don't want a big, huge climber that needs extensive spraying every season.

However, I love that colour, and if anyone can recommend an HT or floribunda with the exact same colour, I'd be grateful.

/Kim

Laurie screams , have you looked at flamenco Rosita ? It's a similar color , fragrant but not heavily, but incredibly healthy and never stops blooming .

Kim, you can grow Zephirine Drouhin no spray. That's really a one time bloomer anyway, so in the spring the plant will look great and after that just let it be. That's what I do here!

What I won't grow again: Rugosas!

For some reason, just no luck here. Everything has bloomed at least once this year. My Purple Pavement just keeps growing, no blooms. It was a bareroot ownroot I planted last year.

Then I have a Hansa, a 2 year old field grown own root which I got bareroot in 2015. In 2015, I got maybe 6 blooms. Last year, maybe 8 blooms. This year, pretty much 12 blooms. Mostly it just keeps growing. And this spring I gave it a good pruning, cut it down about halfway. It has started suckering, I see a stem about 3 feet tall coming from nearly two feet away.

These rugosas are just not working for me and need to go. This might explain why I never see them anywhere here. They just may not like our climate. And this spring I bought Rosarie de l'hay and Therese Bugnet. They are currently in pots. Now what do I do with them?

Pitch them, Braverichard!

I went through a hybrid rugosa phase many years ago, tried about 30 different named varieties, and multiples of a number of them. Susie Verrier's famous book on hybrid rugosas was my Bible then.

They have many fine attributes: excellent winter hardiness, black spot resistant.....powdery mildew, not too resistant, nice hips on some of them, and fragrance that packs a punch.

BUT, here are the reasons they are all gone and not missed one bit:

1. Thorns from hell, need I say more?

2. Flowers blow fast, two days. No rain resistance, period. Short stems also make for lousy cut flowers. Cut a boom,and it drops its petals before you vase it.

3. Slow repeat.

4. Anemic, pale green foliage on some varieties, natural to them, but not a pretty sight.

5. Severe stem girdler prone....no known effective treatment other than pruning out girdled canes.

6. Spider mite paradise. Water spray the delicate foliage and it shreds to pieces as they are slashed by the thorny canes. Forget spraying for mites, the foliage will fall off, of course that cures the mite infestation the hard way!

7. Running at the root....suckering into a 6' wide colony given time with some varieties.

8. Never slip up and do a foliar feed...the leaves will fall off. Liquid feed the soil with great care, splash the leaves at your peril.

So there you have my report. Been there, done that; moved on.

Moses

Thank you, Lilyfinch! Flamenco Rosita look very pretty in that picture, and close to the colour I'm looking for. I looked it up on HMF, and in other photos, the colour is less similar to ZD. I definitely need to see it in person, so I'll keep a lookout for it. Thanks again!

Diamond Eyes is itching for a shovel pruning! Its flowers are potently fragrant, but they are so dark that every time I look at its blooms I say, "You are one ugly rose!". The white mark at the base of each petal makes a bloom look defectively colored, not uniquely colored.

Moses

I also went through a Rugosa phase when I was searching for cold-hardy, disease-resistant, low care, fragrant roses. It ticks all the boxes, so perfect, right?

Wrong.

Most had little or no scent to my nose. Less fragrance than even my Knockout roses.

They grew vigorously but could get scorched in the summer sun, and some flowers tended to ball a lot with rain. The repeat on several of the roses was also quite poor, like on Hansa and a few others.

Japanese Beetle heaven! The one rose that seemed to do great and had fragrance--Roseraie de l'Hay--was always covered with so many beetles that I couldn't enjoy the fragrance at all. Who wants to snort a noseful of beetles? I could literally shake off dozens each morning and each evening from that single rose (shake, not pick. Way too many to pick.)

Thankfully there are more roses each year with increased disease resistance and cold-hardiness, and the Rugosas have been left behind.

Diamond eyes is definitely unique ! How long will you keep it you think ?

Did I mention Lady Emma Hamilton? I loved her since first seeing a photo in a BBC Gardening mag before it was introduced at the RHS Chelsea show that year, I still remember the registration name, AUSbrother, because it wasn't named in the photo. Three have entered, none have survived. Vexes me to this day. :-(

Diane_nj - I'd be frustrated too! LEH is a beautiful rose.

Moses - I agree that the white marks make it appear defective. I felt the same way about Dark Desire - great rose, but I only enjoyed it in the bud stage, not lasting long enough, and the white streaks appeared often. Gifted it to a friend.

I would like to retract my statement about lavender lassie. I recently started spraying very inconsistent however and the rose looks fantastic now . And I have her by munstead wood , the colors are beautiful together!

I think Diamond Eyes, although i have it sited better now. Its a dull purple and does not work well with all colors. Looks great with carnations.

Chippendale: The bloom shape is attractively cupped and quartered, starts glowy orange, but quickly fades through a somewhat bland pale pink to a dirty near white.

Perfume Flower Circus: Again, the bloom form is attractively old-fashioned and very full, and the fragrance is lovely. But... both of my specimens have a weirdly crawling growth habit, and the purplish colour fades rather quickly in the sun. I gave one away.

Charles Austin: One of the first to get BS and rust this season. Blooms start a nice egg yolk yellow, but fades to a dirty, pale apricot. Austin seems to have retired the rose, and with good reason - there are no doubt better roses in this colour range.

For some reason this thread showed at the top of my screen and I thought it was new. I realized after going on my rant that it has been here for a while. =)

This is a super fun thread. Thank you Lilyfinch!

I am struggling with ballerina also. I planted 4 =( thinking they would be glorious since I love that delicate single look and now I am very disappointed. They looked very pretty during the spring, but now they look awful. I might keep 2 that are in a less noticeable location and dig out the other two. Is this a common problem with all hybrid musk's in our area? Any of them that are black spot resistant?

First price is going to go this weekend. Awful looking blooms after they open. Hybrid teas have to be exceptional for me to like them and this one isn't that.

Kordes perfecta: Beautiful blooms some times. It has nothing else going for it.

madame anisette: These got to go. I have several planted right in front of my house that are gigantic with 0 repeat. I only kept them this long because Cori Anns pictures gave me hope. There are too many roses that bloom and bloom for me to keep pampering these dinosaurs.

Just typing this here made me feel so much better about it =) lol

Diane - thanks for reviving this thread. It's a great time of year for reflection!

I have quite a few roses that I pamper along, but wouldn't replace if they died. It takes a lot for me to shovel prune a rose. I generally give them 4 years to show me what they have. If they do poorly, I'll move them to another spot - I have many that have been in 3+ spots. Over my 9 years and probably a total of about 140-150 roses, I think I've SP'd about 10 or so. This year I SP'd one - DA's The Mayflower. I couldn't take her little 1" misshapen blooms any longer.

My no-replace / wouldn't grow again list:

• Barbara Streisand - lovely fragrant flowers, but blackspot wonder, and very weak grower
• Dick Clark - super healthy, always blooming, beautiful blooms when they're a day or two old. But he just really bores me, and the blooms look awful after a few days, then stay on infinitely until I chop them off
• Garden Party - almost never blooms, boring blooms when she does
• Mr Lincoln - he'll never get the shovel, and blooms are gorgeous and smell wonderful. Right now he's about 9' tall, blooms at the very top. What's the point?
• Paradise - blooms when I get them are pretty, but that's rare, and the plant is extremely weak
• Proud Land - moved it 3 times to try to make it happy. Get about 2 blooms a year (the two are nice...)
• cl St Josephs Coat - I have two of them, and they are absolute duds for me
• Sugar Moon - edges of blooms almost always black and crispy
• Purple Tiger - super weak plant. Blooms are very pretty when I get them, but it's rare

Since this was originally posted I gave Dick Clark the shovel . My husband is reshaping the bed and Dick was in the way. In my opinion he looked good for a day but the blooms were just not much to look at, kind of a dull red.

Dark Desire, not that desirable. Long prickly canes with a bloom at the tip except for the occasional bloom in the dirt. I love the closed bud but by the time is fully opens it is a muddy red color. It may have to go.

That is so interesting Kristine. Have you tried pegging the canes of Dark desire? I had to peg mine to the ground mostly in order to keep it from growing too tall in front of Desdemona. The result was a huge increase in blooms all along the length of those canes. I wonder if this would improve yours. I still have to move mine, it is too thorny for where it is.

This is a thread I loved then and now! Karen, I'd be happy with anything from Sugar Moon. She was gorgeous her first year, but I planted her in too much shade and she struggled so I potted her up until I had space. She didn't like that treatment AT ALL. She finally went into to the ground and seemed to finally thrive and send out growth only to have it repeatedly eaten by the darn deer. Grrr. It's the only unfenced area and I've yet to find where they are entering. I love this rose though when it bloomed. It's one I'd grow under glass or protect with little net coverings if need be!

Dianela, my Ballerina has really improved since going in the ground although she is not fully clothed at the moment. However, it IS October. My serendipitous planting was under the limb of a spruce that's planted on a lower level so no root competition. The limb shades a bit at times, but also keeps the brunt of the constant rain off her leaves. She'd probably be a good one under the eaves.

I have quite a few HMs. Their main problem has been freeze/thaw dieback. Penelope succumbed as a young plant and I've hardly seen a bloom on BubbleBath and Cl. Pinkie. Felicia is in the bed open to the deer so have hardly seen a bloom there either. The Best In the Ground is Belinda! She keeps her leaves and blooms. I'm moving her forward in the bed to provide more light, but she's a keeper. Darlow's Enigma is also good along with Prosperity, Wind Chimes and ARE's Excellenz von Schubert, but they are all new this year and still in pots. My favorite rose for health this year is Pink Pet...rock solid and I have three of them so it's not a fluke here. In my neck of the woods the HMs need more sun than they seem to elsewhere, but I really have put them in trying locations.

It is a thorny beast isnt it.

It is just a wonky plant. Pruning next year will help to shape

Yes it is my thorniest rose so far. Yours looks good :)

It is an odd shape but I can work with that

Hopefully the blooms will be better next year.

Dark Desire hits the top of my list, too. In its third year now. Finally got some blooms to open without burning to a crisp first. But the habit is awful - long super thorny canes growing out almost sideways. Gotta go.

Buff Beauty and (maybe) Dark Desire.... these two are so thorny.... Dark Desire puts out lots of flowers for me.... but on 12 foot canes that wave around with those sharp daggers.... It seems to reach out and scratch me even if I am 20 ft away.... or so it seems... Buff Beauty has been in the ground for 7 years... is a one cane wonder but also has super sharp thorns..... Plus one of these was the culprit to scratching my cornea.... so I have NO love fot them. I had another super sharp one called The Fairy.... it was a butterfly magnet. Loved it.... but the palm trees killed it.... it was TERRIBLE to pull weeds from around it.... I think about replacing him, but then I think hmmmm vision is better.

Wow! Im glad that I am not the only one who is reconsidering keeping Dark Desire. Those long thorny canes are so ugly. As you can see from my picture it is in a huge planter box so it is already raised up and that doesnt help. I have gotten a handful of pretty blooms, thats it.

Maybe Rouge Royal would do well in that spot.

Oh wait. I need a place for Boscobel

As soon as I find a suitable replacement my Dark Desires are going to the lower level where their wonky habit won't annoy me. They bloom a lot, but I needed shrubbier roses in their spots and I didn't know enough to understand what the HT growth habit was. I just though it referred in the flower. In addition to shape, the colour never achieves the beautiful purple shading of the picture although I do appreciate her in bud. However, what makes her unforgivable is that she defoliates all the way up to those waving flowers so I can't even say at least she's healthy! And to make it even worse these are the only two roses I special ordered from Lowe's and paid full price. I wouldn't hold out hope that spring pruning will help as mine died to the ground and came back exactly the same. Perhaps mid-summer pruning might help. I'm hoping Bordeaux makes a suitable replacement.

That is what I was afraid if Vap that even with pruning she will still have those bare thorny canes

I thought it was just mine so I am realizing that it may not ever be a rose that I love and you all know my credo by now lol

I have lots of hybrid teas and they all have foliage to the ground. I dont do bare legs, it is just ugly, on the roses too.

Time for Bosco to move in.

It was June last year that I commented on this thread. Some updates:

Falstaff was removed. I had enough after some serious pampering this spring without a single flower. I did love those (rare) flowers though.

Madame Isaac Pereire died. It was in too dry a spot after all. My tears dried after putting my nose into Alnwick Castle.

Evelyn. Moved to a sunnier position and they have taken off. Keeping them.

Alexandra Duchesse de Luxembourg. My opinion hasn't changed. Doesn't thrill me. I don't hate it. From a distance it does catch the eye since the flowers are so large. She's in a holding pattern for now.

Claire Austin was removed. I just didn't like yellow color fading to dirty newspaper color. Blech.

Old Blush. it's still there. I'm getting used to those flowers with poor form and strident color.

Pure Perfume. I discovered that they need more sun and water, but I have no place to move them to. Keeping them for now.

Radio Times, moved to a pampered pot, grew a little, but never seems happy. Will not stay in my garden.

William Shakespeare 2000. I discovered that the problem really is that they need more water. I may put them in pots. Off the chopping block.

So I was somewhat right: some of the "eh" factor was due to cultural factors. But not all.

These are now in the "eh" column:

Sonia Rykiel. Flowers don't take the heat. Not very fragrant in my yard (maybe next year). Doesn't produce those glorious flowers that Fragrancenutter shows. Doesn't really want to grow. My second plant died and I've already replaced it with another Alnwick Castle.

Dee-lish. Happy to grow, happy to bloom, lovely fragrance, but to my eye, not very pretty.

Winchester Cathedral. It's there, it blooms well in the spring, with very short-lived flowers, then a few flowers here and there the rest of the summer. Weird fragrance. Doesn't wow me. In my garden it's just a nondescript white rose without a lot of flowers.

Iceberg. I really like the fragrance, but after the spring show, the flower form is lost, and the leaves always look sickly yellow. I may replace them with Desdemona, or Bolero, or ...

I replaced my Winchester with Desdamona

WC was always mildewy, couldn't control it and few blooms. The only time it looked good was when it threw a pink bloom.

I guess it is all a matter of fine tuning

Vaporvac for some reason I missed your earlier post about the hybrid musks here. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I love the looks of all the HM I have seen online. I will look into adding the one you recommended. I did forget to mention I have Dr. Robert Korns and it is very nice so far. It has not defoliated like Ballerina and the blooms are lovely even on a tiny plant.

I wouldn't recommend the beautiful Rhapsody in Blue to anyone whose temps get over 80˚F. Maybe even 75˚F. Both of mine will be leaving next spring.

Zone 6b here—I am struggling with spindly habit and blackspot with my DeeLish, but can't let it go because it looked like this two years ago, so I am wondering if this was just a bad year,. It's fragrance is wonderful. I am surprised at the problems some of you have with Buff Beauty. This is mine, photo taken in May of this year. Planted in 2016 next to the front porch—it took off over the summer and is almost two feet larger than shown here, spreading nicely with several new canes. (It is being trained to wires that you can't see in the photo.) I find it to be one of my best for habit, the canes are flexible and easy to work with—not a thorny rose at all. I'm wondering how much has to do with the climate zone. Some roses just seem to hate Asheville, others are easy here. I have a Climbing Honeymoon Kordes that I almost got rid of a year or two ago because of browning on every bud—

drove me crazy. But it has been great this year and I'm really glad I waited. Here it is at the front fence—it's four years old, hardly a speck of BS, great habit, and blooms most of the season. My Kordes Parfuma Roses from Lowes are not faves. Summer Romance, Dark Desire and First Crush are horribly leggy. First Crush shows some promise of developing a better habit, but SR is all leg and not a single bloom. I will try some aggressive pruning early spring 2019, but I don't have much hope. I don't know if it could be that they are all grafted rather than own root? Will add that every year is different for me. Hardly a Japanese Beetle to be found anywhere this season, instead it was the year of thrip. We got away with a nice first bloom but the second flush was hit hard.

Wow, that's an impressive Dee-lish. Maybe you'll have a better year next year. As I look on my pictures from the year, I did have a nice first flush, which makes me less likely to remove it.

But then for most of the rest of the summer, flowers looked like this:

Lagerfeld- he‘s growing own root, is fussy and generally unhappy in hot, alkaline S Central TX. Coddling, regular fertilizer, a lot of water to get the occasional blooms at the top of the spindly plant. I do like the color and fragrance when the stars align, but the bloom doesnt hold up in the heat and I must catch it before more than a couple hours of sun to enjoy. It lives on here being tortured in the TX Hill country- mostly because it was a friend’s rose given to me when she had to move.

Lagerfeld likes tons of acidic rain like in late fall. It prefers fluffy soil and hates my dense & heavy clay (I had to fix my clay with a bag of acidic gypsum for Lagerfeld).

Evelyn is the opposite: likes my alkaline clay & blooms well with high potassium fertilizer. Evelyn needs full-sun in my garden.

In my zone 5a, I'm thankful for any rose that survives winter, esp. freezing rain that killed 1/4 of street trees. But I should get rid of Governor Rossellini, zero scent in its 3rd year, tiny red blooms:

Those blooms look great...but lack of fragrance....not so good IMO. :)