Salet

Two Nightmoss buds in the rain. A fading Cardinal de Richelieu in the background. Something that I love about once-blooming OGR classes is that they begin and complete their bloom cycles at staggered times, so the "once-bloomer season" is extended. In my garden, the cascade of OGR flowering lasts a couple of months (longer if I include Lady Banks). Carol

Juno again, unfurling in the rain.

Nightmoss is blooming! The image color is a brighter and pinker than the actual color of the velvety bloom. This rose ages to deep Concord grape purple with a slightly paler reverse.

The combo of moss and shadowy petals really satisfy the noir in my soul. The FRAGRANCE is very, very strong and delicious with lots of old rose.

Extremely healthy for such a young plant. In my organic garden, where my rabid intolerance of disease is notorious, Nightmoss develops just the tiniest and most acceptable touch of Damask crud on some of the old leaves. Absolutly clean fresh ones. Remove maybe a handful of stale foliage after bloom, and the plant is good to go for the rest of the season. Significantly better than a few of my organically grown OGRs which still get a pass after the fungal police have handed out citations!

Highly recommended for Moss and mauve rose lovers alike. Also for those who crave delicious, dependable fragrance and prefer ease of cultivation. NM is a seemingly decadent yet very healthy and fulfilling indulgence! Carol

I spotted this classically beautiful pink moss growing in a garden by my daughter's school. I'm thinking that an offer for a rose swap is in order. Any thoughts on ID? Old Pink Moss? Carol

I used to have a centiflora rose sold to me as "Reine des Centfeuilles." I fell in love with this rose after seeing pictures of it on a Japanese rose website and by an old-time poster's photos on this forum named Celeste. Sadly when I moved houses I didn't bring this rose with me and it's kind of hard to find this rose. What I love about this rose is its face powder scent and texture of those leaves which makes them so different to the Austin roses I have.

Tangles, that is a pink OGR from which dreams are made! Thank you for posting a photo. I need to research Reine des Centfeuilles. I'm completely unfamiliar with it. I wonder if it's even available in the U.S. Vintage probably carried it. Sigh. Vintage. Carol

I have a miniature centifolia, Petite de Hollande -- touch wood, it's still a baby. This is the first year it has bloomed. I love this rose. Unfortunately, no pics. 3 days of 90 + heat (real feel 108f) have put an end to old rose season, it looks like. I have two, actually, but I fear one is an impostor.

Monarda, that sounds like you have material for a future Centifolia photo shoot plus a mystery rose post. :-) Petite de Hollande is is a wonderful OGR! I totally get why you're in love. Carol

Mine came from Hortico. Right before they dropped their old roses. I think I have had it two or three years, This is its first full year in the ground and this spring the first year it produced flowers. The other came last year, after it had been on a wish list (for ages). It bloomed right away this spring while still in its pot, but it doesn't look like the other, real one.

Carol, I think the rose you spotted might be 'Old Pink Moss' like you say. Definitely a rose to try and get.

I don't have any pictures to share since, even if I took photos, the blooms on my roses have all fried long since. But I like the Centifolias and the Centifolia Mosses (and others). Back about ten years ago I bought a pile of old roses, and got as many Centifolias and their near sports as I could. Here they are:

'Centifolia', the matriarch; 'Vierge de Clery' (which may or may not be the same as 'Unique Blanche'), 'Centifolia Variegata'/'Village Maid', extra thorny, graceless in growth but sweetness itself in flower, earlier than the others; 'Rose des Peintres' which has not sufficiently caught my attention (I'm slow); 'Bullata', similar to a big 'Centifolia' but with odd puckered leaves; 'Cristata'/'Chapeau de Napoleon', another big pink Centifolia, but with the fabulous sepals; 'Typ Kassel', a worthy member of its class. There are some others in the garden that are sometimes classed as Centifolias but these are the ones that seem to have most of the character of the original. And I have some youngsters that I don't know well enough yet to form an opinion on.

'Common Moss', a mossy 'Centifolia'; 'Shailer's White Moss', the white form or close, incredibly beautiful; 'Marechal Davoust', dark and typically Centifolia lanky. There's a world of mosses out there, of all kinds (Chris of N.J. wrote an illuminating post on classification of Mosses, I seem to recall), but these, again, seem of those I've seen to be the most typically Centifolia in style.

I love these roses!

Melissa, thank you for the feedback and list of your Centifolias/Mosses! These are such special classes of roses.

I do plan to offer a swap for the pink moss. I am reserving a couple of spots in the garden for local "found" roses. In my spare time, I've been walking through neighborhoods in search of roses to rustle.

I hope I have room for Centifolia Variegata/Village Maid and Cristata/Chapeau de Napoleon. I need to look up Chris' Moss/Centifolia thread. The shared knowledge on this forum is wonderful!

I'm about to pop over to your thread to check in on your watering progress! Carol

These really are uncommonly beautiful. I have to say that here the pink mosses are the most beautiful to me, and that whole-bush shot is to die for.

I can offer a picture of Alfred de Dalmas, a white/pale pink moss rose that I foolishly hoped would withstand my conditions, and that was in the beginning when it was not as hot and dry. Now I don't think it would last as long as it did then.

Thank you for the lovely photos of Alfred de Dalmas, Ingrid! I am glad you were able to grow him for at least a short while. Perhaps it is a case of better to have loved and lost? I have a small Alfred in my garden and his charms are undeniable. Pink mosses are so classic and soul soothing. Like you, seeing a bush of pink moss blooms in full flush takes me to a happy place! Carol

Nightmoss again. The image color is a better match for the actual smoky purple that characterizes this rose.

Juno displaying an interesting color development: lavender pink with a cream center!

This Centifolia is new to me. Rarity is one of the reasons I decided to grow Juno. It doesn't hurt that ithe bloom is beautiful and sweetly scented. Does anyone else out there grow Juno? Carol

I grow it; got it from cuttings a gardener friend gave me years ago. It's an exceptionally beautiful rose, but both of mine are in bad ground: it would be a worthwhile project to move it to a well-prepared hole and see what happened.

This is one of those roses that's sometimes classed as a Centifolia but that the Vintage Gardens catalog, for example, puts with the Hybrid Chinas. It has never struck me as having a Centifolia character which is why I didn't mention it. But I've never studied it that closely, either. This year I feel out of touch with a lot of my roses, in fact: it's just been too hot for wandering around in the treeless parts of the garden (where 'Juno' happens to be located). I do hope that 'Juno' is still there, in this ugly year. Whatever it is, it's a beautiful rose.

Melissa, I do hope that Juno is toughing out the drought! After the summer, you will have miles to report about the iron constitutions of many OGRs that gardeners with ample water have never tested. I read the China Hybrid piece in Vintage's catalog, too. Also HMF implies some confusion as well. I am curious to see Juno's habit and character as it matures. A mysterious rose! Wishing you and your Juno strength through the summer! Carol

Did you get your Juno from Platine Carol? It's such a beautiful rose!

Melissa, thank you for the kind words. I remembered that thread, and found it. I didn't think anything I wrote was that profound -- rather, it's just my observation. But I appreciate the kudos. See below.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3429187/tell-me-about-moss-roses-please?n=12

Since that post, I've added a few Mosses. They and the Damask Perpetuals and a few DP-like Hybrid Perpetuals came last year and are growing this year in large resin barrel-planters as I learn about them. And since 'Mousseline' was limping along without the benefit of being potted before being planted, I added it to the bunch.

Capitaine John Ingram
La Diaphane
Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseaux
Mousseline (aka Alfred de Dalmas)
Salet
Soupert et Notting

The first two came from Dennis Favello (aka Belmont on here), and never made it to the cemetery. The third has been in the ground since late Summer 2013, and is finally breaking out of its awkward period, but basically it's a mossed 'Autumn Damask'. The last two I got from RVR last year, and they and 'Mousseline' "behave" rather more like their Damask Perpetual neighbors than their once-blooming "classmates". As I mentioned in the thread linked above, I think the Moss class doesn't really make much sense anymore, being as its defining character is just one trait (moss), which is transmissible to other classes. So I think of the last three as belonging to my "Damask Perpetuals -- Mossed and Un-Mossed" collection.

:-)

~Christopher

Oh, and something else to add, re: roses called Centifolias back in the day but Vintage Gardens considering them Hybrid Chinas and Hybrid Bourbons.......

"Back in the day" before Hybrid Chinas appeared, Centifolias were the roses with which Europeans were familiar that grew rather floppy, didn't set hips, and had a sweeter version of the "old rose" fragrance. These traits also appeared among many early Hybrid Chinas. So before that class was defined or understood, roses which seemed to have those Centifolia traits were called Centifolias. I know my 'Duchesse d'Angouleme' was sometimes called that. But looking at them today, we see that those floppy canes are what happened when China growth habit mixed with Gallica/Damask growth habit. And without rebloom to temper growth, we got stretched-out Gallica/Damask canes trying to climb like untamed once-blooming Chinas but not having the structures like hooked prickles to do so successfully -- so they flopped over without support. This must have reminded early gardeners of how their Centifolias grew. Plus many Hybrid Chinas were sterile, so hips didn't form -- also like Centifolias. But to us today, we notice that they don't have Centifolia prickles, many show smooth stems rather than bristly stems, and a few other traits noticeably "China".

That's just what I think about it.......

:-)

~Christopher

For the record: Juno really does look more Hybrid China so far. The foliage even has a bit of blackspot, although I never hold young plants accountable. Much can change in a few years.

Hi, Alana! I got my Juno from Rogue Valley. I was waitlisted for awhile and my number finally came up. Yay! It's nice to chat with you again. I thought of you as I posted purple Gallica photos. :-)

Christopher, EVERYTHING you write is enlightening! I agree with your HC/Centifolia theory. It sounds very plausible. Thank you for the link and update on your Mosses. I've always thought this class should be double identified: once according to original class/heritage and once according to mossiness. It would be helpful to know what type of Moss rose one is placing in the garden. Carol

Here is my common moss bush from back in early May, with an alba semi-plena sucker in the foreground:

Lovely! I like the combo of CM and Semi Pena, too. Sneaky OGR suckers sometimes make for great photo compositions. Carol

Chris, I dislike gushing, but you do come up with illuminating ideas. I like your notion of Moss rose classification: that's why that thread stuck in my mind. Thanks for posting the link. And your explanation of why certain roses got classed as Centifolias makes sense. I could never understand why roses such as 'Fantin-Latour' and 'Robert le Diable' were placed in the Centifolia class. The fact is, a good number of old roses are beautiful mongrels, and I think ought to be labeled as such.

A beautiful moss, Anne Cecilia! Thank you for posting photos and sharing one that should be more widely grown! Carol

Annececilia, I just saw Cesonie at The Garden of Roses of Legend and Romance in Wooster, Oh where it was very vigorous and healthy with no care. They had Crested Moss as well and I'm in love. The fragrance of the entire plant astounded me. I think I'm branching out into a new class of roses!

Vapovac, Crested Moss! Yes!! I grow Paul Barden's Crested Damask and have been wanting to grow both in the same area of the garden. All those incredible sepals and powerful rosy fragrance! This class is sooo seductive, isn't it? Carol

Baby Nuits de Young (actually more purple-mauve).

So many lovelies shown here. That Juno is to die for!!! I keep telling my Salet to hurry up for this thread, and today I finally see some color. I am really thankful to have a second flush on Salet this year, after losing the first to dry winds. I was worried that our sudden high temps would shrivel and brown Salets buds same as the first flush, but fortunately we do not have Santa Ana winds.

Too bad this biggest bud is housing a caterpillar of some sort.

I'm very pleased with the number of new buds on this 2 1/2 year-old. It's in a plastic half barrel under lattice.

Looks more like a mealybug infestation to me. Try using Safer Insecticidal Soap or Neem Oil. (In very small infestations, alcohol on a Q-tip works - but that's probably more suited to a houseplant than a prickly rose bush.)

I agree with Anne Cecilia, Lisa. It does look like mealybug. I'm so glad you are getting your second flush of Salet! Carol

Gosh, I had no idea! I do have some Safer on the shelf. I just haven't used it on anything yet. I will use it now. Thank you very much. I let this go on for two years! Lisa

Mealy bug is horrible. I have seen in outside and in my house plants in recent years, but don't remember seeing it so much, or even at all, in the past. I don't understand why it has become so prevalent. Climate change? Maybe there has been a decline in birds or in other insects who would normally prey on it? On the other hand, they say ants cultivate it. In the garden, it seems to prefer stressed or dying plants. I wish there were a way to control it.

Here is a photo of my brand new René d'Anjou, doing so well despite the heat! We're really struggling with all kinds of gross insect issues here. The weather has really taken a toll on the garden this summer. So discouraging!

On the upside, my "gravel mulch" area idea alla Derek Jarman for this little moss rose seems to be working...

Anna-Lyssa, what nice blooms already, for such a new rose. Those pink blooms are darling. Is René d'Anjou a remontant moss? It's obviously a heat tolerant moss:)

I sprayed Salet with the Safer product yesterday. I have zero experience with mealy bugs. I've never seen them before, and didn't realize we had them in our dry climate. I have looked and looked, and I don't see bugs. My son doesn't either. Salet is the only plant that has this stuff on it, and the bush is otherwise very healthy. Should that white stuff be going away after I applied the spray? I love my Salet, and don't want anything bad to happen to it:( Lisa

I grow a few mosses: Capitaine John Ingram, Henri Martin, Nuits de Young, Alfred de Dalmas, René d'Anjou. I used to grow Eugénie Guinoisseau, Salet, Communis and Chapeau de Napoleon, all gone now.

I still have a mystery moss I'd like your opinion on. I was labelled d'Arcet in the abandoned university garden where it was found (the site is now crammed with tall apartment houses). My mystery rose is definitely a moss but it's a much lighter pink than in the photos on HMF. Any ideas?

Does it repeat? Have you compared it to La Diaphane?

:-)

~Christopher

Lisa, the insecticidal soap should nail the mealybugs. You can shoot a stream of water or wipe the stems to remove the buggy carcasses. They especially prefer certain plants and succulent new growth. You may want to keep an eye on Salet and use the Safer Soap as needed.

Anna-Lyssa, Rene is beautiful! I'm glad your mulch is working. We all have our regional challenges, don't we? Thank you for posting photos of this lovely Moss! I wish I could catch the scent over the Internet.

Mariannese, thank you for the image of your Mystery Moss (d'Arcet). It's a lovely thing! I'm not great at IDing pink Mosses (...or red China roses...or many others, for that matter). :-) I hope someone recognizes your Moss. If I think of any possibilities, I'll let you know. How wonderful that you rescued/rustled this great OGR! I enjoyed reading your list of Mosses. You have grown and still grow a wonderful assortment!

Carol

Christopher, I was typing as you posted. La D looks like a good one for Mariannese to check! Thank you. Carol

Christopher, it doesn't repeat. I'd never heard of La Diaphane before so perhaps it was never grown in Sweden? My rose does indeed look similar. Mine is quite short but I don't know how it would behave in a better location. I didn't rustle it, it was a gift from someone who did. I dug up other roses myself from this old garden at the agricultural university, an old and good clone of New Dawn, Alba Meidiland, Katharina Zeimet and a huge red single rugosa I am using to shut out the sight of a new house with an orange roof.

I get angry whenever I think of this lost garden, an educational garden aimed at both students and the public. There was a large rose garden of old and new roses I got to know for the first time. I learnt so much here as a beginning gardener, for instance from the trial beds with cabbages grown with different manures or none at all, or about composting. I've never grown cabbages but I learnt about feeding plants.

Lisa, one more thought. Sometimes, when something dead but icky is stuck to my shrub branches or rose canes, I gently swipe with a soft or extra soft toothbrush to remove the clinging gunk. I keep one of each in my garden tool kit. Carol

AnneCecilia, the picture of your moss rose bush is just lovely. It's a beautiful rose on its own, but en mass it's spectacular.

Thank you, Ingrid. And that photo was only of the lower west side of Cesonie where it drapes over my crawl space access door. It's a monster - in a good way! It's been a fabulous spring here with rain spaced no more than 3 days apart following a relatively mild winter and the roses have reflected that in quantity of bloom. I'm snapping photos almost daily in an effort to remember this particularly wonderful season in years to come. :-)

Beautiful, Lisa! I, too, adore Salet's scent. Your plant is offering some perfect blooms in its second flush. What a thoughtful rose! I hope the toothbrush helps. Carol