Oh yes, it's big business, judging from the number of ads. (I leave the tv on most of the time during the day when I'm home doing housework, for the noise.) I'm sorry these middle men are able to take such a big chunk of taxpayer money. Aren't these aids available from one's primary care doc?

Would you prefer that these benefit programs not provide monetary help for such equipment (that can be important for those who need help)? If that's not your beef, it seems to me that ads like this provide information for such people that may be useful to them, that they might not get otherwise, so I'm not sure what the right answer is.

I'd like to know how many disabled people's lives are made better and for how long. How many would be sold if the product was not largely covered by the government?

I think "Aging in Place" is often an oversold mantra, trading on fear of change while ignoring a longer term solution of better, safer housing.

I'm unsold on scooters, stair lifts and reverse mortgages -- all stopgaps, and all eagerly *sold*.

ChiSue, have you ever really looked at an EOB form after Medicare pays the doctor/provider? While I agree that the "amount billed" by doctors/providers can be outrageous, the amount paid by Medicare is a pittance of that amount.

I agree with some but not all of what you said, chisue. Forget just the medical devices, how much is an oldster's life enriched when very expensive medical care allows them to live, perhaps even bedridden, an extra year to 86 instead of dying from a malady at 85? End of life medical care many receive is the most extensive and the most expensive. And arguably the most wasteful.

Scooters? It's hard to believe how many one sees being used by people who are morbidly obese. Hello People? Want mobility? Lose weight.

Reverse mortgages? That's a private sector matter, no government role for them other than regulating lenders to insure honest practices. Reverse mortgages are wonderful for the right people in the right circumstances.

"May I remind you Snidley, there are lots of reasons for obesity, it's not always because someone had too many soda's or candy bars!"

Sure. What percentage of very obese people that one sees out in public, often on scooters, would you estimate your "not candy bars and sodas" remark would apply to? My guess is that it's not many.

Why is it so many very heavy people, often on scooters, have open chip bags and sodas to munch on while shopping. How many at Costco eating hotdogs as they drive around?

Many areas have all you can eat buffet restaurants (with dreadful food, I'd never go into one). I've observed that all too often the people coming and going from them are HUGE and need large doorways to get in. Same thing for many people coming and going from fast food places. They aren't large because of medical issues.

Lindsey -- Thanks. I'd forgotten to include that in my mini-tirade. These vendors hook people by playing up the reimbursement. Then...whoops, the individual has a contract to pay thousands.

I'm all for home health care -- in the most appropriate setting possible. I was on the board of our local Visiting Nurse Association for years. (That was before the hospital conglomerates discovered they could do less and charge more, and doctors were pressured not to refer to the community-based VNA.)

lurkkiirish -- Too often "the home they love" is inappropriate for what's needed today. That becomes evident after the individual has spent thousands trying to make it work for their changed needs. If they survive the hazards, they move anyway -- and often discover that only fear of change had held them back from easier living.

Many of these 'aids' are frauds or abusive practices. Yes, the 'aid' can be a real need, but the unnecessary marketing is fraudulent.

Here's some info

"Why is it so many very heavy people, often on scooters, have open chip bags and sodas to munch on while shopping. How many at Costco eating hotdogs as they drive around?"

Soooooo in what life is it your place to judge or even care about what anyone other than yourself eats or uses to get around? You don't know their situation or what the circumstances are surrounding their problems. I usually try to ignore you when your comments come across as mean spirited, but my husband and I go through something similar quite often so you've poked the bear so to speak. Not only is it really annoying but for my husband, it can be needlessly hurtful.

He has a couple of cracked vertebra in his lower back from a chronic illness; he can't lift anything over 25 lbs.. To the stranger on the street or the clerk in the store, he looks like any other healthy guy his age, and in many cases even better! So one can only imagine the staring and dirty looks we get when we have to have help getting heavy items loaded into our car, especially from people walking by. Like what a jerk, is he really too lazy to load a car himself? Thankfully, he doesn't usually see it because it happens behind his back (of course) but I see it. They, like you with someone obese on scooter eating a hot dog, know nothing of our situation and yet, people like you are so quick to judge. You just know everything!

You may feel like it's your right to say what you want, and maybe it is, but I believe Karma has a way of giving back to people who behave like that. I hope one day Karma will finally knock you off that high horse your on and when it does, well, maybe you too will find yourself in a situation where people who know not a darn thing about you or your life will see fit to judge you.

Chisue, I can see your point, but I've worked in a home for the elderly, some of whom were also disabled. Older people don't usually do well with change so unfortunately, I saw first hand what a drastic change like moving can do to them. Often times, it can actually jump start a decline in their physical health. Just my opinion but I think we should all have the right to live our golden years under the roof of our own choosing even if that means our elderly receive some additional subsidizing so they can manage.

chisue described scooters as being unnecessary and perhaps stopgaps and I, ineloquently, described examples I've seen when they're symptomatic of lifestyle, self-caused problems.

If I'm jumping to conclusions about very overweight people demonstrating unhealthy eating habits in a public place, I'm okay with that. If it's puzzling to you to see the same thing and you want to leave it at that, you should.

Most people, passing by someone asking for help to lift something, would offer assistance without giving it a second thought and without asking for an explanation. I would and do.

Karma? No, I'm not into paranormal or spiritual things. I think people have good luck and bad luck and much of what people think of as being luck is often a result of what those individuals choose to do or not do. But thanks for passing along your positive thoughts.

FIL was a widower for many years, living in the same house for the majority of his life. Typical duplex with one LONG stairway to floor with bedrooms. Then he got sick... ended up being liver cancer. As disease progressed, daughter's main concern was the stairs... he was NOT gonna move short of TNT under him. They had one of those stair lift things put in and she said it was wonderful for him. He didn't have to carry anything upstairs. I have NO idea what it cost, but fairly sure they had it removed and sold it (for a decent amount of original cost) after he died.

Ack! Our Sunday newspaper has a full page ad for a home *elevator* with the mechanism within the cage. It resembles old phone booths with glass sides and door, and it runs on 'tracks' installed on a wall. They say you can put it 'anywhere'; with a 'footprint the size of a washing machine'. Lest the reader think he doesn't need on because he has a ranch home...the ad says this will let you transport items to and from your *basement*. Gotta have one. LOL

The cost of any elevator is very, very pricey. A lot of the cost has to do with all the 'safety' measures that has to be built into it. And then there is the mentality that manufacturers have, 'handicapped people are a captive audience', so we can stick it to 'em, they will pay the price.

I needed a 30 inch rise to get from the garage level to the house level. An elevator came with a $5000 price tag. That included installation, as it cannot be a do it your self thing....would void the warrentee, you know. My DH solved the problem with a mechanics electrically powered hydrolic lift table for less than $400.

My parents both have mobility scooters to use on long walking trips, and a chair lift to get into their basement. My mother has had both knees replaced and unfortunately is rejecting the implants (she also suffers from fibro, chronic fatigue, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and more). My father is diabetic with heart issues, one kidney, and a bad back. Both worked full up until retirement.

My grandmother is over 90 years old, deaf, and is in good health other than some trouble walking more than short distances. She is still able to live independently thanks to her chair lift, and enjoys going to flea markets and other places with her scooter as well. Otherwise she would have to be pushed in a wheelchair and would never agree to that.

I do have to say, we live in Canada so I don't believe there was any coverage for these items - they would have to be paid out of pocket.

As far as I see it, these things allow them to be mobile and continue enjoying their lives as fully as they can. If they improve the quality of life, why not?

You assume some people cannot move around on their own because they are heavy. You may find a large percentage of those, the mobility issues came FIRST, then the weight gain, even when following the recommended diet.

Dances.

Dance -- I'm sorry your family members really *need* these things, and I'm glad they have them to improve the quality of their lives. I get riled when I see ads pandering to people who then decide they *want* one, thinking, "Oh, it's basically FREE." (Nothing is free.)

Wait a minute chisue, I see ads all the time, for cookware, or flashlights or all kinds of other things where you buy one and you get one ABSOLUTELY FREE!!! (just pay an additional fee.)

Also some information:

https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/program-information/downloads/accomplishments-report.pdf

Though things may be changing the positives that have come from the ACA w/regard to medicaid are such that it would be horrible if the latest House bill plan is allowed to remain mostly intact or the senate simply gussies it up then slaps a different title and moves some stuff around to look different and then calls it a grand deal after getting it passed by lies and omissions....that would truly mean this country has lost its heart and will never be great not that it ever was for anyone but those of a certain privileged group.

cynic -- Goodness, yes! You can get that three-dollar gimcrack -- TWO of them! -- for only $20 shipping and handling. As a BONUS, you will be on a nice sucker list FOREVER!

Jennifer D -- How much campaign financing did the GOP have to promise their House members to pass this GARBAGE? I can only hope it was intended to give temporary bragging rights to Trump -- and that the Senate will FIX IT!

(I don't hope to see single payer in my lifetime, but this is a disaster.)

https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/data-and-systems/ncci/index.html

https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Fraud-Prevention/FraudAbuseforProfs/MedicaidGuidance.html

I think they already had to trade their souls for campaign financing, otherwise I'd say that was what the GOP had to promise in exchange for passing the thing.

Everything is expensive. To rent a hospital bed with the air mattress is over $1K a month. I can buy them myself for $600, used bed, new mattress.

I had written, "ChiSue, have you ever really looked at an EOB form after Medicare pays the doctor/provider? While I agree that the "amount billed" by doctors/providers can be outrageous, the amount paid by Medicare is a pittance of that amount."

ChiSue responded to my post with, "Lindsey -- Thanks. I'd forgotten to include that in my mini-tirade. These vendors hook people by playing up the reimbursement. Then...whoops, the individual has a contract to pay thousands."

I know that you are in an upper income bracket and it, unfortunately, makes you come across sometimes as condescending. It also causes you to post inaccurate or incomplete information in an effort to make your point.

Please explain, in detail, where you got the information that an "individual has a contract to pay thousands."

In the "world of Medicare," there are doctors who accept the Medicare assignment all of the time and they are referred to as "participating providers." There are other doctors who accept the Medicare assignment only for certain patients and/or for certain procedures. Folks also need to know that Medicare determines what amount they are going to pay for each and every procedure, whether it's a simple office visit or complicated surgery. Medicare will pay 80% of that predetermined amount. The patient is then responsible for paying the other 20%. The total the doctor will receive is 100% of that pittance amount that Medicare has predetermined. That is the "Medicare Assignment." (If the patient has a Medicare Supplement policy, aka a Medigap policy, that policy generally will pay the patient's 20%. I say "generally," because there are a couple of Medicare Supplement policies that either make you pay a specific amount as a deductible before the policy will pick up and pay, or else they still have the patient pay an office-visit copay. ChiSue has posted before that she and her husband have a high-deductible Medicare Supplement policy, so they have to pay something like $2,500 before their Supplement policy will pay anything.)

There are also doctors who are known as nonparticipating providers. They see and treat Medicare patients and will bill Medicare, but they do not accept the Medicare-approved fee as their full fee. However, this does not mean that they can bill you a sky-high amount. Medicare has a limiting charge which, as the name implies, limits the amount a nonparticipating provider can charge a patient.

As I stated before, Medicare has a predetermined amount that it will pay, and then it pays 80% of that amount. When a nonparticipating provider submits a bill to Medicare, Medicare lowers the predetermined approved amount to 95% of the approved predetermined amount for participating providers. It then pays 80% of that lower amount. Medicare allows the provider to charge the patient 115% of the lowered (95%) fee. The math works out to an end result of the patient being responsible for an extra 9.25% of the Medicare approved fee.

There are other providers who have absolutely nothing at all to do with Medicare. They will not bill Medicare for you, and if you submit a bill to Medicare yourself, Medicare will not pay. Those doctors are free to charge you whatever amount they want, and you are responsible to pay it.

So, if Medicare is paying anything to a provider, that means that the patient cannot end up with "a contract to pay thousands" as ChiSue has erroneously stated.