I know that some supposedly red roses turn purplish in my yard supposedly because it's too acidic. I'm thinking specifically of Mr. Lincoln. So maybe it would work, like with hydrangea. It's worth a shot.

In Checking these out on HMF I found 3 different roses called Purple Rain. All of them look to be more red than purple in the pictures. Purple Kiss has 4 alternate names and they all start with raspberry not purple. I think these roses are supposed to be more red than purple. I suggest you do more research on HMF and find some that are more like the ones Diane posted above. Not all roses with purple in the name are purple and not all truly purple roses have purple in the name.

So true, Seil. I always called my Big Purple a Big Magenta. Purple and "Blue" are the most misused color designations. Diane

I'm glad I started this discussion. Seil, I actually DID research on HMF before getting "Purple Rain"; the photo that won me over was this one posted by gagawi in Poland http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.250945 ; the colour comes across as a definitely cool fuchsia/cerise,and this is the tone I was hoping that I might achieve by soil-ph-tweaking. For example, John Cabot,in my garden, tends to be a very beautiful "cool fuchsia/cerise"-type of colour,whereas Kordes'"Laguna",though classified as a deep pink, is disappointingly red for me, though I have seen photos of it in which it appears as what I would call a true deep pink. None of the HMF photos show Alexander Girault expressing itself as the beautiful cool deep pink colour that I see. I fully agree with Diane "Purple and "Blue" are the most misused color designations." "Red", too, however is a confusing term,IMO,as well as being a very difficult colour to photograph.

Buford's comment truly intrigues me. I have Climbing Chateau de Clos Vougeot in my garden. In it's first season, in a pot, it was a stupendous deep "purple-y"red :by this I mean a colour that leans towards the tones of Diane's photos of Ebb Tide and T.Zone,but with red,like Chianti wine, or Burgundy ; a decidedly COOL, dark colour. But once planted out in my garden, it's been just a plain darkish red,without that sumptuous dark violet note! Now, it hasn't been out there long,but still, this makes me wonder if the ph of the soil does influence these colours. However, I don't get much chlorosis at all,really. So maybe I should re-phrase my thread's title,or something, since what I'm really wondering about is if it's possible to encourage the cool tones of these "raspberry" roses,and the deep red ones, too.

.possibly the amount of sunlight. We get approx 340-350 days of sun here. Many of my roses come out lighter than catalog and other peoples photos.

My Ebb Tide has NEVER looked like that.

Sorry, folks, I missed these last two comments since the thread moved back a page. My garden definitely gets a LOT of sun, though perhaps not quite as much as yours does,kshaneje. Buford, what colour was your Ebb Tide? Do you have a photo that you can post?

You know, David Austin's Chianti is still being sold, but it gets big as a barn, I'm told, so I've never considered growing it. Maybe that's a color you're looking for. Also Ascot is a deep winy red, especially in spring and fall. It is an excellent bloomer, I think. Some of Geschwind's huge once bloomers are a pretty cool color--Souvenir an Brod (hope I got that right); Gypsy Boy; and one or two others. Diane

Ascot

Hi Bart, here is a picture of my Ebb Tide. This is about as dark and purple as it gets.

@diane - your ascot is lovely, I want one just because of your pics! And I think you mentioned it made it through your winter weather this year with little damage?

As for chianti; I saw this rose recently on the uk david austin site & thought why has no one ever mentioned it here!

@buford - that is a big colour difference between yours & Diane's. I do like the varying colour of your blooms though.

I find it interesting how roses all have different tones of colour depending on where they are, temperature & sunlight. I've noticed this a lot when I use hmf.

Bart, I'm pretty well convinced I need to move north! That gorgeous photo of Purple Rain was taken in Poland and that whole country is on a different latitude than SE Virginia!

Sweet Chariot, Ebbtide, and Night Owl are not purple for me. Now I'm trying Dark Desire, hope I see those tones at least in spring and fall when nights are cool but so far-- just a red. Mister Lincoln is a beautiful dark red (but not as dark as Oklahoma or Lava Glow) and so was Tradescant.

Too funny how hard breeders worked to get a "true red" and get RID of that purple, back in the day..

As far as moving north, the weather in British Columbia is too mild so I might want to see try Maine. Or maybe Nova Scotia.

Can we hear from you northern folks please? I'd hate to go to all the trouble of moving and still not have purple roses that are purple...

I'm in the same latitude as southern Maine if you want north. Both states grow lots of potatoes, too--ha.

Thanks, Blondie. I, too, was surprised that there weren't more people growing Chianti. I assumed that it was no longer being sold, but not the case. It's just so darn big. It is a once bloomer, too, I believe. Oh....Geschwind's most well known purple is Errinnerung an Brod (still not sure about the spelling). Diane

Blondie, I forgot to mention, that yes, Ascot is very cold hardy. Rock solid. We just had what I think was about a zone 5 winter (it's not over yet), and there was not a bit of cane damage on both Ascots from the cold. Bloom color of any of my roses also depends on the time of day I take the photo--more blues: early evening; more reds: afternoon, or anytime earlier in the day. Diane

Buford, my Ebb Tides aren't as purple as Diane's either! Hers are what inspired me to buy him. Incredibly vigorous here, sometimes can't see the green for all of the purple blooms, but definitely a redder purple.

I'm on the same lattitude as Diane. If I could find any of these purples mentioned I will gladly trial them for research. Unfortunately, most of the stores keep selling common pink & red roses. I'm on a mission to expand into the richer purples & magentas this year. The only other thing to mention is some roses are just not hardy enough here for winter survival. I did plant a very small night owl last year. I will post pics when that happens to bloom. And I'm pretty sure my soil is sandy/loamy & more neutral/alkaline.

Thank you, all, especially Buford and Diane for the pictures. I got Ascot myself this past fall and it's growing in a pot for now. I'm beginning to think that the differences in colours may be due to something more complicated than soil PH,however...

You might also check the Organic Rose Growing forum here on Houzz. There is a very knowledgeable lady that posts there a lot under the name "strawchicago". I think she has written about this topic before, so you can do a search, or just post a question outright asking her. She is a wealth of knowledge, and has some really practical, doable tips. She suggests things like vinegar, molasses, alfalfa, and so on. I don't mean for this specific case, I'm just giving examples of some of the kinds of things she uses to fix things. So don't go whipping up that mixture, based on my advice:) Who knows what that would do! Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there as another possible place for a remedy. Lisa

Unhappily, "Straw" used to post on this Forum until she was, I think, criticized harshly and publicly for her unorthodox methods. It wasn't pretty, and she has never returned to the Rose Forum or the Antique Rose Forum. I enjoyed her posts and didn't find her methods objectionable. In fact, she steered me to a fertilizer I like and am using. She posted at that time as user name "Strawberry Hill" if you want to search for old posts. Diane

Last night, I found that in addition to High Country Roses, the rose Chianti, is available from David Austin himself (shocker). Both sites were sold out, though. But that gives a year to figure out where to put this baby. Check out Chianti's images on Google Images and HMF photos. I can see why Austin still sells it (since 1965). The blooms remind me of The Prince. Now if Austin could just improve The Prince a little.... Diane

bart, I have Purple Rain but so far it hasn't had even a single bud (own root) but I'll be curious to see what color it is. I got rid of my Austin Dark Lady since, far from being dark, she was at times almost fire engine red. I wonder if the combination of lots of sun and soil on the alkaline side (mine is decomposed granite) may have something to do with this phenomenon, since I run across it with so many roses.

Ingrid, my soil is alkaline, and believe me, our summers are hot and sunny. I agree that the hot sun changes lots of purplish roses to a brighter magenta-red, but not all of them. Age has helped Ebb Tide a lot. The ones pictured above, I acquired the year Ebb Tide came out--2006. The first few years of ET's life here, the roses faded terribly, but didn't really turn reddish. Ascot doesn't change much, but it's not a true purple, nor does Munstead Wood. Big Purple was not purple at all. What a deceptive name. Twilight Zone stays a true purple the best of all. Diane

So you think that my ET's will eventually turn the color that yours are? Faded doesn't sound so bad because it could look antique-ish but I don't care for the magenta.

I can't predict for you, but they may hold their color better with age. Fading was not pretty--some would fade out to a pale off lavender look. Not a pretty lavender at all. Diane

I like "Straw" a lot, and agree that she has some great ideas and was also very, very sorry that she felt driven away from posting here because of excessive and I felt totally inappropriate criticsm. Because of her, I now use a lot of cracked corn for my roses; very high in nutrition and quite acidic...that is an EXCELLENT idea, Lisa! I will post to her on Organic Rose Growing ! It was she who posted about the red cabbage method of testing soil ph , BTW, and when I did that my result was "slightly alkaline"...

This reminds me that somewhere in the past, Straw used sugar to darken her roses' color. Jim used it to darken his Mr Lincoln bouquet to a neat purple. I don't think he was trying to change ML's color, but it happened. We saw the photos. These were cut roses, though. LL tried brown organic sugar and it didn't work for her, but ML needs good old granulated stuff apparently. Jim, if you see this, can you post your photos on this thread? Diane

I wonder if there is more to it than just ph though? I've had mine change colors in the same day and last week's candy apple red Mr. Lincoln (which turned tomato red with sugar added) is this week's purplish Mr. L for no apparent reason.

My Midnight Blues can look just like Ebb TIde or can go almost to a bluish black velvet tone, sometimes purplish black. But both MB and Mr. L can have a velvet quality so I wonder if that has something to do with it?

Ebb Tide has started out the morning dark violet and ended up dark burgundy by afternoon.

My first Madame IP's blooms were all a gorgeous shade of violet and now they are magenta which I dislike immensely. It is a bit warmer though but expecting a cold front with the thunderstorms tonight.

I'm going to start paying closer attention to this!

Yes, I suspect that it isn't just a ph thing,too.

I had Mr. Lincoln for a long time. It would usually show a purple cast. I lost it a few years ago. I just bought a replacement that is still in a pot. It has a nice pure red bloom. I wonder if it's because of the soil in the pot and if it will change once I plant it in the ground. I am getting soil tests done on 3 of my beds so I will see how the ph and other factors are.