We did some shopping for LTC insurance several years ago. Genworth was considered, but they ended up not being the company for us. John Hancock wrote a policy and we will continue to pay the premiums for many years. It will be cheaper than trying to pay for LTC as it happens. I am in my 70s and the missus is a few years younger.

Both the missus and I have a background in elder-care and it gave us a perspective that might not be duplicated with anyone else here.

Our policy is set up so that if either of us goes to a nursing home and is there for less than three years, the balance of that time kicks over to the other. Why three years? The actuarial tables show that three years is a long time for most nursing home admissions.

One also needs to consider a person's total worth. If you have nothing, then going on to state aid (if it still exists in the future) is an easy thing should you be in the facility for five or more years (I know one gent in his late 70s who had been in the home for more than 17 years before he died). If you have wealth, then you must spend down that money before you qualify for the state aid (and the look-back period is several years). You cannot just give away your assets, you have to be really needy in order to qualify for state aid.

It is not too late to shop for other LTC Insurance, one that will guarantee no premium increases. You need to get with an impartial financial person and/or an attorney to make sure that your interests are properly addressed.

I've read a lot about this over the years. I fully understand the caps on time period and total dollar amounts in a policy. But to date I have not heard of a LTC insurer that guarantees no premium increases. Are you saying that John Hancock is one? Thanks!

Can anyone please tell me what the time period is to get rid of assets?

I need to look into this as well. I am in the nursing homes all the time and know how it is. In my area, the private pay clients also have semi-private rooms. There is no difference between private-pay, people with LTC insurance, and people on Medicaid. I would imagine in larger cities there is more choice.

bengardening, Medicaid varies so much state to state it is hard to say. In New Mexico it is five years. And some things, like your home, are excluded if say you intend to return to it (even if there is no chance you ever will).

Yes, husband and I both have it. We tried to use math: if we saved & invested the money we're paying in premiums, how much would that yield at various ages (80, 90, 95). Compare that to: how much would we 'get out' if one or both of us ended up in long-term care. We decided to keep paying the LTC premiums. Of course, there are so many factors to estimate that we could still be wrong.

Those asking questions - if the answer is important to you, you shouldn't rely on advice from anonymous people in a forum.

The rules can vary widely from state to state. Those who really want the right advice should speak to a lawyer who specializes in elder law.

Yes I do....MetLife. My late husband and I took it out when I was 60 and he was 70. Mine is for lifetime and his was for 3 years. Our premiums do not go up unless we give permission for them to do so... but if you want to raise the coverage, you are subject to an examination. Two years ago, I thought maybe I should raise mine, but was denied because I have had three joint replacements and two back surgeries and am considered "high risk". The reason I took lifetime was because there is a history of ALZ in my family and my mother was there for many years.

Yes. Through Unum. Two policies (both of which I "ported" from previous employers).

Who said that those asking questions are relying on advice from anonymous people in a forum? Are you now the question police Elmer?

I am the POA for my Mom. Her policy premiums with Genworth increased so much in the 20 years since she purchased her LTC policy that she kept lowering the daily benefit to keep it affordable. She would have significantly more money for her care if she would have invested those premiums over the years instead.

At this point, the benefit covers about 25% of her monthly nursing home bill. If she passes before she uses up the pool of funds, Genworth gets to keep the remainder. From that perspective, she should have started tapping it much sooner than she did.

Also, her Genworth policy does not cover Assisted Living, only memory care or a skilled nursing facility, which is unfortunate.

All in all, if you are already half way to the point where you'll need to activate the policy, you may as well keep it up. If you haven't purchased a policy yet, don't. Invest that money instead.

Questions and advice - Should I keep my policy? Should I drop it? Should I get it? Is it common to guarantee no premium increases? What's the time period to get rid of assets? Do you have to be really needy to get state aid? If you haven't purchased such a policy yet, then don't.

No, I'm not the question police. This is an area that's once in a lifetime for most people and usually too involved for the average person to handle correctly. I'm someone who has heard of sad stories stemming from people who don't realize the advice they're following has come from people who don't know enough to be offering advice to others. For those who like to get advice this way, please don't let me get in your way.

mrmewey, I think your comment and my first comment are compatible.

Just be sure that the insurance is worth it and probably have it looked at by a lawyer to know for sure. I say this because my own parents paid into a LTC policy for many many years and got back almost nothing once my mom had to go into a nursing home. They were sold the policy by their life long insurance agent too, someone that was a family member. I believe that he really thought the policy would take care of them. I think it ended up paying a few thousand dollars. My mom was in the nursing home for over a year so her care was about 5 thousand a month. It was a total waste of money.

Because none of our relatives had ever been in a nursing home, we decided not to get long-term care insurance. We opted instead to regularly save money to cover the cost, if we should need it.

Let me add another comment to this: When my Mother was going into the nursing home, we all thought that since they had this policy, we would be taken care of and it would pay for her nursing home care. Well, my new SIL that is kind of a "know it all" piped up and said "those policies aren't worth the paper they are written on, I know because I used to sell insurance". As it turned out, she was right that time. Like I said in the comment above, have it checked out by someone that understands legal mumbo jumbo.

We have John Hancock also and I agree with what Jim_1 said. We are hoping it is a good company when the time comes. We have had our policies for several years now.

My DH and I were in our early fifties when his employer offered a LTC policy from Hancock. We took it. In 2000 the premiums began to increase sharply as health care costs continued to mount. It seemed obvious that there had to be even more premium increases coming -- or reductions in benefits.

I had seen well-rated health and life insurance companies deny coverage 'as sold' to my mother. I doubt anyone's all-purpose counsel is a match for every obscure qualifier written into an insurance company's policies by a phalanx of lawyers!

Back to the LTC: Hancock said that we would be fully vested for reduced benefits once we'd paid for ten years. In 2000 the reduced benefit would provide $45/day for nursing care. At least not every dollar all of our premiums was lost.

Government data told me that 83 was the average age of admittance to a nursing home; that ninety percent of those admitted at ages over 65 stayed five years; that two and a half was the average for "years in care". A lot of people stayed less than three months -- end of life.

As I recall, the data made no distinction for demographics. We have good overall health, good family histories, with lifelong access to nutrition, housing, medical care. I see some probable correlation between length of stay and the providers' ability to collect in those stats. I'm looking at time 'in care' for people over 65, who are presumably on Medicare. (I did not look at stays for people admitted younger than 65 either.)

We paid up to the ten year point and dropped the policy. Now we have not paid LTC premiums for 17 years. From time to time I have requested and received confirmation of our partial-coverage status with Hancock.

Insurance is not a gamble for insurance companies. They continually consider their profit margin. I'd be concerned if any health care premiums did NOT increase as Boomers 'age out'.

How would single payer health insurance change LTC?

We don't and won't.

Consider the reasons that a person would need to be in a nursing home.

A fall could result in a broken bone (or more), as humans age, the rehabilitation time for some things gets longer. It is not unheard of for a person to fall, break a bone and never again return home as there would be no one there to efficiently do the care that would be necessary.

Other people might go to a nursing home because there are multiple co-morbidities and whatever needs there are just cannot be met in the community. Those are most of the folks in long-term facilities. There are just too many things going on.

You don't have to be old to be in a nursing home: MS, Parkinson's, early onset dementia are all examples of reasons for a person younger than 65 to be in a nursing home.

We'll continue to pay the $5K/year. There are too many odd things in the family histories of both sides for the missus and me.

Like Jim_1, we evaluated our risk profile for morbidity and decided on buying it. We have the equivalent of "Cadillac" LTCi (I guess that might be Mercedes-Benz or Bentley, these days, lol), purchased through the state pension fund which polices the LTC carriers very strictly.

It's costly. But we knew that going in. I'd worked in insurance for almost 20 yrs and still have friends in the industry, including corporate actuaries. I told DH that the original pricing was too low and we should be ready to budget for premium increases in the future.

Those increases have happened, and fortunately we're still able to afford the premiums. We have no intention of letting them go. Our morbidity risk is still high.

In 2013 we moved my MIL to a wonderful full-care senior facility. She had early dementia but was fine with a regular daily routine. She was a sociable sort but shy about making friends on her own, so the facility was great for her.

She was age 85 when she moved in, and sure she was still "too young" for this place. Imagine her shock when she was seated at a dining table with three other residents, and she was the YOUNGEST. One of her new companions was 100 yrs old and had been living in the facility for 30 years!

Because MIL needed to have enough $$$ to afford Memory Care as she declined, we were and still are, conversant with what facilities charge for Skilled Nursing and Memory Care in our area.

Interestingly, when we were researching facilities for MIL, there was little difference in the Asst. Living monthly rents, although costs for services varied, between the for-profit and non-profit facilities. But when looking into SN and MC units, the difference was substantial, to the tune of more than $3K/monthly. It had nothing to do with the quality of care; the non-profit we selected for MIL was one of the more reasonable ones yet is rated 3rd in the state.

In 2015, the cost for SN/MC at this facility was $8500/mo. You need to remember although this cost is inclusive of all medical services, personal items and some extras deemed non-essential are NOT provided by any facility we interviewed. Such items, for increased comfort or emotional support, are the responsibility of the resident or resident's family, so that is an additional cost.

It should also be noted that all the facilities we interviewed did not accept Medicaid patients at all as initial residents. All of the non-profits and a couple of the for-profits said their policy was to apply for Medicaid for residents who eventually ran out of funds (helping defray those SN/MC costs is one of the major expenses in a facility's General Budget).

Some of the for-profits, however, said if a resident ran out of funds, they were asked to leave. These facilities would contact the state to arrange for a transfer to a Medicaid facility that would accept the resident: no choice of where to go, btw.

As pointed out above, if you think there is any risk of needing Medicaid, it would be wise to find out the laws in your state, AND STAY UP TO DATE ON THEM. Medicaid is 50% federally funded and is always dependent upon the goodwill of Congress for its funding. Currently 80% of the U.S. elderly in SN and MC facilities are being funded by Medicaid.

HTH.

For those with LTC policies: Do you know what it would cost you today to be in a good, safe facility of your choice? Would your LTC policy pay enough for you to afford to make up the difference?

I know someone with a mother in care (or senility, not AZ). The mother is 80 and has been in care for two years. She has a semi-private room in a nice facility that two RN daughters helped choose. It's $60K a year in north-eastern Wisconsin.

Sue,

That price is super-duper reasonable. I would be willing to bet all the change in my pocket that the same amount of care in a decent (read not expensive) facility in the north burbs would be a bunch more.

I worked downstate Illinois at a county-owned facility and the starting rate was $223/day (not counting scrips and therapies - speech, physical and occupational). We had about 55% on Medicaid, as might be expected in a county-operated facility, with about 25% there for therapies only after hospital stays.

No matter what, it gets to be a financial burden once a person has been there for 3+ years. And it can wear on a family, too.

I have LTC insurance with Mutual of Omaha. I also have kids, so between the ins. and the kids, I should be able to find shelter if I need to.

Don't and won't!

I have a Long-Term Care Policy with Unum. I've had it for about 15 years. The premium has never gone up. It pays for two years in a convalescent home or assisted living facility, and it provides coverage for home health care. It has an inflation rider so that the coverage keeps up with increased healthcare costs. I am glad that I have it.

I know Dave Ramsey recommends it. He advises anyone over 60 to get it. We're not there yet....then....I will check into it.

The investing enough money for future care route vs. funding a policy is really a dilemma. And of course you can sink thousands into a policy over the years and never use it. Chuise, I am in the Twin Cities of MN and the predicted cost of a private or semi-private facility by the time I'm 80 (20 years from now) is $190,000/year. I believe it. Hoping for the best in investing for 20 years is, of course, equally uncertain--anything can happen to the market. As mentioned above I am one of many people who has a comfortable life financially but am not "rich" as in having no concerns about paying whatever it is you need to pay for such care.