Vintage Gardens, to me, is more trusted with the identity of their antiques because they continue to investigate what they have, compare to old records, and have no problem issuing their identification as tentative by placing the name in double quotes. Tammy posted pics of hers, and that is the "thornless RdV" I remember from another nursery -- dull green color to the stems, leaves wider and more rounded, tapering suddenly. Tammy first said hers had thorns, then took the pics and came back saying what she thought were thorns were merely small bumps. My band is just as prickly as a typical Gallica -- no one seeing it would remark about its "smooth canes" because they're not. That's not what I would call the same "a few thorns" as found on Tammy's band -- I can't put my finger on the stem without touching a prickle. The first reference on HMF for RdV is clearly a translation from the French (as noted by both the French title and the text's awkward English). I would much prefer to read the original and translate it myself. It's very likely that the "also the prickles of the branches" which follows a semicolon (which denotes a separation of the second clause from the first, such that it could be its own sentence if grammatically correct, and that the translation isn't makes me wonder about the accuracy of the translation) is not connected to the comment about "red stipules..." It could very well be that missing from the translation is a negative, turning that last bit into a comment about "also the lack of prickles of the branches" which is less awkward of a clause than "also the prickles of the branches." But I can't tell for sure without reading the original French. Be careful about taking an awkward translation as gospel just because it's the oldest. If several descriptions beginning merely a year later describe the plant as without (or almost without) prickles, I'd take that over the claim that the first description (as translated on HMF) is noting "red prickles" which I really don't get even in that awkward translation -- the semicolon would not be used if the "prickles of the branches" were red like the stipules. A comma would be. Also remember that considering the time for a book to come out in print during those years that close together, it's very likely that both authors were writing without seeing the works of the others. Thus the descriptions are better trusted to be based upon actual inspection, rather than copy-and-paste from other authors -- because there wouldn't have been time to read the first description and write it again in a book coming out a year or two later. Ultimately, RdV has had notes in her description over the years about her relative thornlessness. The band which I received would not be called "thornless" any more than many other roses I've seen which never acquired that adjective in their description. Sure, my plant isn't overly thorny, and its prickles are small, but they are not sparse enough for me (or anyone else seeing it for the first time) to say "my, that rose is thornless." But others seeing the real RdV over the years have. That's why I don't think this one is the "real" one, and the one I grew previously (and gave as a gift) was. :-) ~Christopher

OK, I didn't upload the pics I took to my photobucket account yet, so I'm being lazy and offering any of you on Facebook the opportunity to see them in my "NJ Garden" album. My Heirloom Roses order came two weeks ago, and that pic is the 37th in the album, followed by a shot of 'Souvenir de Victor Landeau' as it's leafing out this year (I got it as a band in April 2012), some up-close shots of the "Reine des Violettes" a-la Heirloom Roses, and a snapshot of the whole order potted up and individual shots of each. Then there's an "after" pic of one of the future Gallica beds, after I removed dead and "in the way" growth of the arborvitae, and finally the Vintage Gardens and Rogue Valley Roses order I received on Thursday. I'm overly meticulous with potting them up, so I got through half in four hours on Thursday, working until it got too dark to see. Then this morning (Friday) I finished the other half in another four hours, just in time to get cleaned up and ready for work. If I posted them all on here, I think I'd end up freezing someone's computer. One thing I have to say -- I notice that the medium Vintage uses for their bands is very "rocky" and seems both overly heavy for shipping weight, and prone to drying out en route. Some of their bands were wilting when I took them out, but perked back up after getting a long, slow drink. Rogue uses more of a peat-based medium, which seemed both lighter in weight and able to retain more moisture. Of all of the RVR bands, only 'Golden Buddha' seemed a bit wilty, but it also perked back up soon after being repotted and watered. My potting mix this time was equal parts peat moss, Bovung composted cow manure, and shredded hardwood mulch. I like how this mix felt, a nice mix of light and fluffy with enough water-holding ability and a good mix of slow-release organic nutrients for growth. I lined the bottom of each pot with newspaper to keep the mix from coming out of the holes but still allow water to drain out. I sprinkled Jobe's Organic Knock Out Rose food in layers as I added potting mix, using 1 cup for the 2-gallon pots and 1/2 cup for the 1-gallons. I think I prefer the 2-gallon pots, but did use the 1-gallons for the bands that were either much smaller, or for roses which themselves don't grow that big, and will be planted in the ground after I place the larger roses. I'll pot up the 1-gallons into 2-gallons later in the season. I'll keep updating that album as I go along. :-) ~Christopher Here is a link that might be useful: NJ Garden Pics

Don't fret, Lilyfinch, I'm sure your roses will be fine! There's no use worrying about whether they'll survive the winter, worrying won't help anything. You already placed the order and they are probably on their way, so all that's left to do is be happy that your little roses are coming!! I guess I'm in the same boat as you because my Heirloom rose arrived today! And I'm in zone 5! I was beginning to regret my decision to order such a small rose this late in the season soon after I ordered, but now that it's here I am nothing but optimistic that it will survive. It's so cute and looks healthy. We need to get them acclimated to the outdoors quickly (shouldn't be hard with so many nice warm weeks of summer left), and with a pile of leaves to insulate them over the winter I think we will be enjoying our roses come spring :)

Rebecca- your roses are gorgeous but so much work. I live in Massachusetts. It is so difficult to even dig a hole 10 inches deep with all the rock, boulders and ledge so I try to buy only own root roses. I have gotten some wonderful own root roses from DA and have some more scheduled for delivery next week. I hope they add more own root to their collections. I recently ordered 'Queen of Sweden' and 'Windermere' which is by far my healthiest DA rose and covers herself with delicate soft blush pink blooms from early summer till fall. She is cane hardy in my Z5b-6a garden. The only negative is lack of the "to die for" strong perfume scent that Austins are so known for. sharon