This
is such an interesting topic and even though we have no desire to
snowbird anywhere it's fun to read about all the possibilities. Neither
of us function well when it's too hot - I'd like to avoid the Philly
area in August when it's too hot and humid to garden. Although it is
perfect for floating in the pool with some iced tea and a magazine.
When DH retired many of our friends asked if we'd move somewhere warmer
or at least escape the Philadelphia winters. Of course as I type this
we're experiencing another later winter blizzard with the possibility of
significant power outages. For those of you in the southern climes you
haven't lived until the power has been out for a day and the house is
getting colder by the minute and you're debating if you should just take
the food out of the refrigerator and stick it on the porch which at
this point is colder than the frig. We solved that dilemma by
installing a whole house generator which automatically kicks on when we
lose power.

We have a second home in upstate PA that's about a 3 hour drive and
we try to spend as much time there as we can - we probably enjoy it more
in the winter when we can sit inside with a fire going and just watch
the snow falling. We also have a whole house generator there but when
we leave we still shut off the main water supply to minimize any damage
it a pipe does leak for some reason. For that matter whenever we leave
our primary home overnight we simply shut off the main water supply too.

We have quite a few friends who spend their winters in warm climates -
Miami, Naples, The Villages, Hilton Head, Tucson, one in the
Domenican Republic, one in St. John, one in St. Thomas. A few who have
relocated there full time sold their winter places and chose homes in
areas that had more full time residents. They didn't like living in a
home in an area that nearly emptied in the summer. They wanted to feel
like they were living in a community and not just visiting.

Our neighbors retired and bought a condo in NYC and were disappointed
at how few of the condos in their building were owner occupied - or for
that matter occupied at all. There is a significant number of luxury
condos in the city that are owned by foreign investors who seldom use
them.

I found Beaufort, Charleston, and Greenville to be very pleasant when I visited.

Like joanie - we don't want to be too far from the kids either.
Right now all 3 are less than 1/2 hour away and they often join us when
we're in upstate PA. They are the only family we have nearby because
our siblings live out of state and we only see them sporadically. The
over 55 community we're moving to this summer is only 8 miles from and
if we're blessed with grandchildren then we'll still be close.

Maire

maire-cate, in my part of the south, we used to have much worse winters. I've experienced a couple of snowfalls that put us without power. Even got stuck in an ice storm two weeks before I got married (that was 35 years ago!) and walked several miles from work to a hotel! But our winters have really changed and I am so grateful! I do not like really cold, snowy weather. The older I get, the less I like it. I'm not one who likes to be cooped up inside. I can enjoy it for a day or two and that's my limit. We have a generator for emergencies, but I cannot remember the last time we used it!

They didn't like living in a home in an area that nearly emptied in the summer.

Good! We who love that are counting the days till Easter when they will all start going home. :)

Even though it's hot and humid, I love the summers here because everything is so quiet.

You could live my dream and get a Sarasota Mod original and get Pal to help you restore it http://www.premiersothebysrealty.com/ara/sales/detail/245-l-560-jh4y5v/lido-shores-lido-shores-sarasota-fl-34236

This one is cute

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1845-Bougainvillea-St_Sarasota_FL_34239_M63980-42661

Laurel Park is charming, walkable and historic
http://www.premiersothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/detail/245-l-560-r2jv3q/laurel-park-downtown-laurel-park-sarasota-fl-34236

Old Florida Style in one of my fave neighbourhoods, Indian Beach Sapphire Shores

http://www.michaelsaunders.com/properties/property-detail/710-indian-beach-cir-sarasota-fl-34234/A4168390/

http://www.tourbuzz.net/public/vtour/display/649005?idx=1&previewDesign=8237&mobile=1

Beagles, you don't have to turn off the water completely. Toilets, washer and fridge water line can easily be turned off in the house. You won't be completely protected from interior water damage but you would lower your odds. And your pool guy will still have access to the outside faucets.

I haven't been back in a while but Old Northeast neighborhood In St Pete has some really charming older homes and is a short walk to the beach. Flood insurance might be an issue.

Old Northeast

Oh yeah St. Pete gets props for being hip now! The Dali museum really is well done but so expen$$ive.

Robo,

Thank you for posting those! I am not usually an MCM fan but if I were to go MCM, I think I'd like it particularly in a warm climate; can't explain why exactly. I have spent a ton of time on realtor.com. TBH I wish they had a filter for "brown kitchens". So many FL homes are a total non starter for me for that reason. Why so dark and heavy an ornate in a beach town? Oh my. I think I need to buy new construction, because (heresy on GW I know), I don't feel like redoing kitchens and baths and paint and wall paper. I know myself, and I always overspend when making those choices. It is a total waste.

I do particularly like this house, but it is a tad small and it appears to have a new home looming over it on one side and something across the street too. And what I really love is that tree (which with my luck is prob dying). There are three or 4 homes on my saved list just because of trees like that, which you cannot build or buy. Gorgeous.

D-Gw,

I did look in that Coffepot area, which I recalled from years ago when we used to visit family in ST Pete Beach and stayed at the Vinoy. I first looked for things that were walkable in that area, and no dice. But if I give up on that, there are some really nice homes. I don't know if I would want to live in my "BIL's town" though, IYKWIM.

Take a look at what a little makeover and a filter does!

LOL

Maire, I do think that over the last few winters, in the NE, the difference between happy campers and miserable folk has been who has a whole house generator. Ours the PO put in, and it heats our indoor pool and runs the decorative landscape lights (or at least it would), whilst some our neighbors' plumbing won't work in a power outage!

You are right about the empty apartments. I friend of mine says, the more expensive the home, the less likely it is occupied on any given day. Even out here in CT, we have snowbirds on one side, weekenders on the other and across the street. Same thing at the beach. Two of our nearest neighbors are there well less than 50% of the time we are. Once you are talking international cities and or snowbirds spots, often there is no community.

Running, Jupiter Island, Hobe Sound, Stuart and Vero Beach are all on my "I give up on walkability" list. I especially like the housing stock in VB; I found 4 places I liked there.

Gscience,

I know that what we are looking for is what many potential retirees want. Some developers are building this kind of stuff, but most upscale towns fear density, and in the end, you cannot get walkability without density. The SI home sold within a week or so of the first time I saw it (or is off the market for some other reason). I agree, it is TDF. But SI is simply not a snowbird destination. I have to resist the temptation to keep looking there, unless I change my MO entirely. Yeah, the Naples MBA is the bomb.

Funky, oh no, I don't think I would touch a single thing in that house. Sigh.

3katz, The vibe in Naples doesn't send me either, but, it is prob the number one place people I know mention, or where their parents are. So I know that my "peeps" are there. The overcrowding, well, places that are nice are overcrowded, very often. When my DH complains about the traffic about our beach house, I remind him there was no traffic at our lakehouse ... because there was zero to do and no one wanted to be there. Pick your poison, kind of.

Joanie, It is cliche, but really, where on earth is better than SB? In truth I think my DH just wants to stay perpetually at the San Ysidro ranch,LOL. I know I would find my kind of politics and my kind of food in Calif., two things that matter a lot to me.

D_gw, this is a gorgeous one and walkable!?!

It is a bit too big tho, and maintenance would be high.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/101-6th-Ave-NE_Saint-Petersburg_FL_33701_M60070-49096

Kitchen sink TDF

That's just big ficus tree, Mtn. It's doomed (there's a spiral whitefly that's destroying ficus all over FL) but not dying, just in need of a good prune. Anyway, this is FL. You could cut that down to the stump and (sans whitefly) it would be big again in four or five years.

If you're looking at Jupiter Island, you should know that the north end of the island is considered the least desirable. I prefer it myself, but then I like deserted beaches and the whole northern tip of the island is part of the Hobe Sound Wildlife Refuge. Most expensive is the part of the island where you can reach the club easily by golf cart.

Beach cam at the wildlife refuge:

http://video-monitoring.com/beachcams/hobesound/

Mtn, A little distance from the inlaws never hurts. One fear with Old Northeast is the ramping of the real estate market. Spec developer razes charming, smaller old house next door and a giant house is built to the limits of the lot. New house screws up drainage and privacy for the homes around it. Old story but it doesn't make it any less frustrating for the neighbors.

Unfortunately, you don't have to live in the NE to experience that, alas.

BTW, Mtn, should have specified that "less desirable" = much lower status with other club members. It seems to really pain my clients on the north end.

Yeah, we are not country club types. We like high end property markets (who doesn't), but not Thurston Howell III scenes! Scratch that.

Robo, those are really nice homes. I love that Indian Beach house. Wow. Would *almost* make me think about Florida for a minute.

Mtn, good point on the density and the resistance against it. That does not surprise me one bit. I work with a lot of urban planners so I am up on all these issues. We have the problem here in that there is almost too much density. A developer wants to build 100 townhomes across the street from us. Land has gotten so expensive that a lesser density doesn't work economically for developers. But 100 people move here every day, and they are going to have to go somewhere!

Well, it's not exactly country-clubby. I mean anyone can drive onto the island and drive around most of it. I'm not sure if club membership is even required, but it does seem that a lot of the folks with homes there tend to rely on the club people for things like exterior maintenance, serving when they have a party, etc. Then there are all the Hollywood/celeb types who never make a public appearance at all.

- sidetrack on density - one thing I find frustrating as an urban lover is tons of density with no mixed development. Like, I want density because I want coffee shops and corner stores, barbershops and bakeries. That is one extremely boring thing about gated communities and many suburban areas. They're slowing cluing in to density but not to the amenities that density brings.

- additional sidetrack - there's a terrible group here in Halifax called Heritage Trust that hates/blocks all development while rarely focusing on or saving important historical buildings. Anyway, they know everyone hates them so they have created all these spinoff groups with different names. One of the groups is ostensibly for "good/smart" development. So they are trying to block a new set of live/work condos (condos above studio space) that is literally being built on an old junkyard because it "doesn't fit the neighbourhood".

This is the exact neighbourhood:

LOL, Robo, sidetracks welcome. I hear you. But honestly, I think many millennials and retirees want density for the walkability it brings. And you'd be surprised how often people think walkability means you can go for a walk!

I want to be able to walk to a good coffee shop, a selection of restaurants, a full-size and good quality grocery store, a movie theatre and a park. There are a lot of NE towns where you can do that, and of course most large cities. The South, for reasons WB mentioned, not so much. The only year-round warm places that I know of where you can do that are in So. Calif.

My future in laws have a beautiful home on Longboat Key outside of Sarasota. It is on the Gulf of Mexico. It is a gorgeous area with great shopping and restaurants in St Armond's circle . Sarasota is nearby and can fulfill any culture vulture's needs.

I suppose I could see myself in these digs ;)

Check out this home at Realtor.com

$2,690,000

4beds · 6+baths

541 Harbor Point Rd, Longboat Key

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/541-Harbor-Point-Rd_Longboat-Key_FL_34228_M54858-37474

Even better, this one is walking distance to Saint Armand's Circle.

Check out this home at Realtor.com

$2,400,000

4beds · 4+baths

353 S Washington Dr, Sarasota

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/353-S-Washington-Dr_Sarasota_FL_34236_M59895-22945

here is a bit of information about Saint Armand's Circle. It is fun and chic. Great restaurants and coffee, too.

http://www.visitstarmandscircle.com/

Jojoco,

It is good to know you like St. Armand's circle. That is one of the few areas that I see Sarasota properties where you can eat last walk to dinner or coffee, if not grocery shop. It sure seems charming. I posted one I liked above (the small MCM), and I also like this one

Thanks for the listings. They are beautiful and the settings are gorgeous but the houses are not my style. To me, the spanish and italianate style I see all over Florida is too heavy and too dark for the climate. I especially don't care for brown kitchens with granite, and they are very popular there too -- clearly i'm in the minority. It's like I click on a listing, get two photos in, see the kitchen, and beat a retreat!

The other thing I find is that so many of the homes are too large. Granted they are not as large as the home we would sell, and the maint costs and prop taxes are not as high, but if part of the logic is to downsize, then really, 3br is fine. But most of the 3br homes have very modest finishes and or locations. Unless they are oceanfront and have a dock, but we don't want a dock or particularly want ocean front. We are looking for a needle in a haystack! A nicely finished, newly done 3br home in a high end neighborhood with a white kitchen. It is really interesting how there are regions where that is easy to find, and others where it is well nigh impossible.

Mtn, im not a fan of the massive new Tuscan homes either. I lived in a version of one in a gated community in Windermere, FL for 3 years. It's no wonder that I now live in a 1920's home. ( and all the houses were starting to window shop for in Philly are 1920s, too.)

But I digress. Have you, or would you consider Winter Park, Florida? My son went to Rollins. Winter Park feels a lot like new Canaan. Very upscale, great restaurants and great coffee. The house below has a charleston vibe (but still the brown cabinets:(

Can you tell I love house shopping?

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1511-Harris-Cir_Winter-Park_FL_32789_M67550-14530

I'm afraid you're going to have a hard time finding a white kitchen in your price range, Mtn. For some reason they're considered rather down-rent by the upper echelons down here, Christopher Peacock notwithstanding. It always seems so strange to me when people on the kitchen forum complain about too many white kitchens.

Wow, that massive farmhouse/drainboard sink!

Hyde Park in Tampa might fit the bill. Like St Pete, it has many charming homes and also a shopping district. The bad news is that the neighborhood floods at the drop of a hat. It also doesn't seem to have a lot of inventory. (And you'll be near your inlaws.)

Hyde Park Tampa FL

I'll add the San Marco neighborhood in Jacksonville too. Older homes and very walkable. Then I am done :)

San Marco Jacksonville, FL

Check out Westchase. It's a very nice area that is walkable and you're 25 minutes to St. Petersburg, and has some nicer newer builds.

https://westchasewca.com

Lol, Jojo, can you tell I do too?

I realized I forgot to paste the other one I liked near St Armands

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/76-S-Washington-Dr_Sarasota_FL_34236_M60302-17354#photo25

1920. Needs a few things, but under what I planned to spend so doable.

I did look online at Winter Park, since Writersblock mentioned it. I don't know anything about it, altho it seems odd to be to be in FL and not be on a coast ... OTOH it make make sense for us, we get enough coast at our beachhouse for my tastes. We are not sun bathers and i get seasick and DH and I are both allergic to shellfish! I was only looking at things in Winter Park that were walkable, so missed the one you posted. I DO like that one! I like this one too but it is a bit odd the way it is behind the garage (?) .... but it is very reasonable price wise.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/501-Melrose-Ave_Winter-Park_FL_32789_M57038-32783#photo0

Writersblock, Maybe it is a generational thing, too. My parents probably would think that cherry cabinets were nicer than painted.

Gscience, I know, isn't that gorgeous?

D-gw, I will go look. I just would feel a bit odd as if we were invading my BIL and SIl's "space", IYKWIM. They are in St Pete Beach, for like 20 years now.

Beagles, Thanks. OMG that is enormous! It will take me a week to figure that place out!

Westchase really is adorable. If I could tolerate living close to people (which I can't), I'd have loved to live over there to be able to walk to all the cute little places. Plus, proximity to Clearwater Beach, St. Pete, and Tampa all w/in about 1/2 hour and to Sarasota w/in an hour or so gives you versatile options.

Here's some pics I grabbed from the Google.

Jojo,

Explain Winter Park to me. (You had me at "New Canaan downtown") and then I googled some photos. Lovely! What is the history. I know nothing about it, and actually thought is was like, a bedroom community for Mouseketeers. : )

Wow, Beagles, it sure is. I never heard of it!

This one is cheap for you, but would leave you plenty of money to make the need changes in the house- and looks like you'd have trees similar to the ones you like in your back yard:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/9825-Emerald-Links-Dr_Tampa_FL_33626_M64970-19965#photo20

"Location, down the street from all of the shops, restaurants, parks, playgrounds, golf, 2 community pools, tennis courts,& A-rated schools. "

Wow, that is a lot of house for the money, Beagles. Nice, too. I will have to look over that site.

Jojoco, It;s funny, there is not much within walking distance of downtown WP it seems, but a few developers are building exactly what I'm looking for, down to the white kitchen.

But ouch those are Palm Beach prices!

winter park is all old money. The locals tend to eschew flash and new money and the vibe is very classic and intelligent and northern ( if that makes sense ) . The streets downtown are brick lined and home to many upscale boutiques and restaurants. It has great shopping, outdoor dining, and people watching. Yes, it is also home to Rollins college ( where my eldest son went, ) but the college is small and rather preppy. From what I've been told, WP is not a very welcoming community to newcom, but I have to say, having grown up in Fairfield County, it felt like home to me. I would live there in a heartbeat. I doubt many Disney execs live there as the commute to Disney world would be heinous on I-4. A lot of them lived in my gated community, Keenes Point, in Windermere.

(In a year I'll be actively looking along the main line in Philadelphia--will be asking you and dedtired to weigh in. )

Mtn I think if you want the townhouse AND the private pool you're going to have to catch someone pre-construction. I only found a very few developers that are doing townhouses with backyards/pools. Another option might be a rooftop terrace with lap pool.

The architecture lecture I went to was with this guy and he does do beautiful work at various price points (including $14m spec houses in Miami):
http://www.strangarchitecture.com/

Another possibility might be what they call a courtyard home, which is detached but directly adjoining the next property, so that one wall of their house is the wall of your courtyard. Kind of like an upscale version of a zero-lot line house, but there are some lovely properties in this category that either were built with or have room for a good-sized lap pool.

Here are a couple of examples from a development where I played for the grand opening and it is very nice. The first one must be some kind of foreclosure with heavy club dues owing or something to have sold for that price, or maybe zillow just left off a 1, which happens fairly often:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2140-Sea-Mist-Ct-Vero-Beach-FL-32963/51175384_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2165-Sea-Mist-Ct-Vero-Beach-FL-32963/66740582_zpid/

ETA There are some that have lap pools in the back instead of the kidney in the courtyard. I much preferred those.

Forgot to say that club membership is optional there, AFAIK, but it might be worth it for the beach cabana, although there is access without it.

Writersblock,

Thank you for posting those. I had not heard that term before, but that would fit the bill perfectly. I would prefer slightly better finishes, etc, but maybe they have developments like that at higher price points. Conceptually, they are perfect (very well suited to "lock and leave" as they say). I also very much like the Dutch West Indies style.

So next year (or maybe THxG this year) we have four places to visit. VB is in the lead because it offers the best value among towns I like and is so pretty, plus I like the tight zoning and lesser developed nature. WP also intrigues me, but I would have expected prices to be lower for an inland community so that surprises me a bit. Still I want to check it out because Park Ave looks great. Sarasota we need to check out because it gets some of the highest marks for its culture and city life. Naples I've not seen in years and it remains on the list because it is so popular among people we know, and it does offer some walkable areas. Tampa and environs ... I should ask DH if he wants to "share towns" with his BIL. LOL

Yes, Sea Mist Court is part of an older development on the southern part of the barrier island, but there are more deluxe versions of this available in newer developments north of the main part of Vero. I don't know if Windsor has anything like it, but you might want to check them out. There is another development up that way called Ocean Oaks or something--I've done weddings there, but I forget the name since it's been a while, that is also in the British colonial style and may have something similar.

BTW, real estate prices in Orlando metro are just plain high (Orlando is a booming place, attracting much new business) and Winter Park is the chicest, chi-chiest, most up and coming part of town, so you will pay much more there than you will most other places. WP is certainly the most vibrant of your options.

DH is going to retire after our youngest graduates in about 2.5 years. I can't wait to move back to Southern California! He laments that it isn't particularly retirement friendly but I remind him quality of life has a price. We have also been looking internationally, and I am beginning to take it more seriously as I am unhappy with current politics. Santa Barbara is a nice choice. Santa Monica is very walkable (but very pricey). We will likely end up somewhere San Diego north county. The hardest part of this darn retirement business is going to be moving away from my adult son who is happy and established in our current area. I do love where we currently live but I need more sunshine in my life, I miss it so much!

Well, since some of us are dreaming here;)...my dream is to live in my current community most of the year, with Jan/Feb someplace much warmer (Mexico?) and July/August someplace much cooler (coast of Maine? but probably MA/RI near family). Fortunately for my budget, I am also a homebody so I think I would actually hate moving several times per year. Anyone here with 2 homes mostly a homebody? Does the second home also feel like home? Honestly I don't like to travel for more that 7-10 days....but I'm trying to be flexible since I know my husband will want to travel more once we retire.

I have my primary home in NYS and a second home in Connecticut. While I don't consider myself a homebody, I really do like having a sense of place. That being said, I love both homes for different reasons and can't wait to get to each one.

I have had two or more homes now for the last 15 years or so. One always feels more like home, because it is where the quotidian parts of life are centered (school, work, bills, dr.s etc). But once one is in a situation where you can split time more evenly, maybe that changes. I would think the one with the most history would feel most like home. I have also found that I feel a greater connection to homes we have remodeled etc.

Having two homes does always make me feel guilty when I travel, esp if one or both homes are in season while we are gone.

ETA - Mimou, it is a hard tradeoff, I agree, being where you'd most like to be vs being close to family.

I am a big homebody. I like to travel, but being home is my favorite place. I do feel very at home in both houses. But I always call my PA house "home." I really do love both houses equally though and enjoy the different routines I have in each house.

Homebody here too. My homes are my sanctuary. Ours are not that far apart, only a 50 minute drive. Our primary home is in the suburbs and our vacation home is at the beach. Our house at the shore truly feels like a vacation / get away each time we are there. It feels as though my stress melts away as soon as I see the water! Our ultimate goal is to sell our primary home and move to Florida when our son goes to college in 6.5 years. Then we will keep the shore house in NJ, have a house in Florida and go in between. Like Mtn, I also feel guilty about the vacations we take during the season but having another home is not going to stop me from traveling.

OT -- Hey, Jojo, I have lived on the Main Line for my entire rather long life. I would be most happy to give advice about homes and communities here.

As for moving South, I do not like Florida. I had to travl there often for work and just couldn't wait to get home and breather the cool crisp northern air. My niece lives near Southport, NC and it feels kind of NASCARish there, which is not for me. I would probably look into Charleston. This is not likely to be a problem I will ever have.

Southern California hands down! Can't beat the weather and all the great storefronts. Of course, it may be too laid back for you? When I come back from laid-back vacations (just did, Punta Mita, Mexico), I find myself wanting to get back into the more fast-paced (we aren't as fast-paced as where you are, I'm sure) part of our lives. Florida is too humid and hot.

Ollie -- we are taking about snowbird destinations; we would only be in Florida in winter ... when it is gorgeous

oops! Sorry, read through too fast! Still, I don't know why Florida has never appealed to me, but, apparently a lot of people think differently. Now that I think about it, didn't others above mentioned it was too hot and humid? I'm too lazy to look. HA!

I think so, Olliesmom. When the threads get so long people skim a lot and so then the reading comprehension is not quite up to SAT standards, LOL. All is forgiven.