I want to modify [the 511 mix] a little bit. I don't like peat moss. Me neither! However, the mixes are not only about individual components but also about how they work together as a mix. Peat is only 1/7th of the 511 recipe, and because bark and perlite and not overly water-retentive, you do need something to hold more water and nutrients. There will be plenty of air in-between the particles of bark and perlite, more if you use coarse particles and less but probably still enough if you use finer particles. If you'll allow me a comparison... I am a financial advisor, and when clients tell me they do not like bonds (it is most often bonds they do not like, because of the low interest rates and good recent stock returns), I enthusiastically tell them "me neither!", but that probably everybody should have at least some because they play a role (providing diversification/hedge and down market protection). So, yeah, peat sucks (quite literally), but at 1/7th of the volume it's not going to be what determines the performance of your mix, and it does play its distinct role. I would (and did!) start with the strict 511 recipe because so many people have used it successfully for so long, and only modify it later in a thoughtful way if for some reason something does not work for me. An investing analogy again is index mutual funds, which is basically investing in the same proportions the market in its aggregate wisdom decided to invest. (Who am I to think that I can do better than all these smart people?) Then once you really learn the ropes and see how the mix behaves in your personal cultural growing conditions (something the market cannot know!), feel free to carefully modify the proportions going forward.

Hi EB!!! Sounds like you have done your search and have found a wonderful mix that will make your plants very happy but most of all very healthy!!! When you water with the Gritty mix, it will take some time to get comfortable on when and how to water. This is the best time to learn to water in the summer, since the water can drain outside without the worry of collecting the extra water inside during the winter. So, once you get the feel, it will be easier to water in the winter. I will offer my 2 cents as far as how I water using the Gritty Mix. When I water, I use a watering can that has a small water spout that allows a small amount of water to come from the container. This will allow a small amount to be added to your containers instead of a large spray or just a huge amount at one time to pour on the surface. This will be easier to water over the entire surface of the container so you can get all of the mix moist. You don't have to add huge amounts of water all at once. Just use a controlled nozzle and add water to the entire area and let it drain from the bottom. Sometimes it will drain pretty quickly and seem to just run through.. that is why I water slowly.. i usually will water this way and move on to others containers and continue to water in the same manner. It is best to come back through and give it one more pass to make sure the particles get the proper moisture... I usually will add the foliage pro after the first watering. Then I know the mix is moist and then when I go back and add the next batch.. it is with fertilizer. I stop when I see it starting to come from the drainage holes. It isn't a good idea to reuse the water coming from the bottom of the collected drainage.. since you are trying to flush out any build up of salts that are in your container..Think of it as "used" water and that you don't want to give your trees water that is used and full of things that you re trying to get rid of. You can always add it to the garden if you feel like you don't want to waste it, but I wouldn't add it back to the container.. Nope.. I wouldn't!!! ;-) If you are worried about the deck and stains or the drainage issue.. you can always use the collection tray , but make sure you raise your container so it doesn't sit in the water. You could use blocks to raise your continer.. or large bottle caps.. I know Al uses some type of inch high aluminum to rise his trays in the winter to keep them out of the water. You could be creative to find things to lift the container.. In the winter, I use water bottle caps under the containers 4-6 per container. I then let the water evaporate and not worry. When you are concerned about when to water, use the wooden dowel method.. If it is moist or wet, don't water.. if dry water. In the summer, I don't worry about over watering in the Gritty Mix.. I just know when my trees and plants want water and I give it to them. I personally use the hose with a special nozzle to give a gentle spray. Then I will fill watering cans with water and FP and fertilize once a week..when the mix is moist. I hope this helps.. Please ask questions.. We have all been here and we all like to help!!! ;-) Mahalo!!! Laura

Hey Al, just wanted to make sure that 2 years later all this advice is current. Some of my gritty mix is now just about 2 years old also. It seems to be holding up but I got to thinking, like some of those in this thread, that it sure would be nice to have a permanent mixture for the long term plantings, by withholding the organic ingredient. Plus it's one less ingredient to have to buy and later screen. I see your main purpose for including it was to lessen the fears of potential gritty mix users that plants couldn't possibly grow in it. It's also used to average the particle size and water retention of the two other ingredients. I use FP to fertilize and look after my plants often enough that this isn't a fear of mine. I utilized a 1:1 ratio of Cherrystone:Turface for two basjoo banana trees planted in the ground here in zone 4. I have heavy clay and when I grew them the last time, they grew slow and their corms later rotted over the winter. I also don't think I properly watered/fertilized. So this year after reading your posts in the link below, I upped the FP by 4x to 1 tsp of FP per gal, rather than 1/4 tsp I used before, and brought the PH down to 5.5 with vinegar rather than the unacidified 7 of my tap water. I know you water with this dosage weekly with outdoor plants but I watered with it almost every day during the hot summer days with no apparent issues. I found that this amount of FP was too much for the indoor plants though... I also experimented with digging about a 4-5 gal hole where I planted the bananas and poured in the 1:1, so at least some of the soil near the corm and roots didn't have to deal with the heavy clay. The plants grew waaay faster this summer and hopefully it'll help the stems/corms survive this winter. I utilized the 1:1 before reading your post in this thread about using a higher ratio of granite/cherrystone to compensate for the small particle size of the turface. Even though the basjoo's did great in the 1:1, I'm guessing in a pot, a proper ratio (2:1 or 3:2 like you mentioned) would be a bit more important. Is this a safe assumption? Here is a link that might be useful: Fertilizing advice

Laura Whole point of using gravely mix is to provide good drainage - just as plants would have in their habitat. Excess water will drain out, but some of it is held by the substrate - how much, it depends on type of it. I would rather 'waste' minute amounts of ferts in fertigating solution than have plant sitting in waterlogged soil. There shouldn't be too much fertilizer applied either, otherwise one would have plants that may not look even close to what they really look like naturally. They are not supposed to be overly fed, too big, growing too fast, almost like on steroids, haha. Most of recommendations are to use 1/2, 1/4 or even 1/8th of recommended dose, depending on frequency. And not everyone is fertilizing succulents, or only once, maybe twice a year. That would be very small amount of fertilizer even with many plants. You are very right saying that some adjusting is best according to growing conditions. And some products are more difficult to find, or could be expensive if lot is needed. I find perlite everywhere I look, but is much more difficult to get pumice. Bark of suitable size is also difficult to find - so I don't even use it in gritty mix.