LOL!! This issue comes up at the nursery pretty frequently - customers wanting GMO-free seeds or plants and wondering why nothing is labeled as such. When I tell them that nothing is available to home gardeners that has been GMO'd, they give me a very skeptical look like I'm lying or don't know what I'm talking about because as we all know, GMO'd plants and seeds are everywhere! Not!!

Just more of the myths and rumors that abound regarding the proliferation of GMO'd plants. There really aren't all that many and consist primarily of the large commercial agricultural crops - corn, soybeans, cotton, rapeseed (canola), tobacco, alfalfa, sugar beets, etc. As indicated in the link, these are very expensive to produce and receive approval for and expensive to purchase the seeds as well so only big agribiz players can afford. There is no market for the developers with home gardeners and a packet of seeds :-)

i anther words.. the profit margin on seed production.. for flowers is so thin.. no one would invest the millions it would take to gmo flowers ... never get a return on investment ... and by the time they got them to market.. the gardening world would be on to the next great thing ...

ken

According to the following relatively recent article, the only genetically modified ornamental available on a significant scale in the U.S. is the "Moon" carnation series. Suntory also produced what it called a "blue" rose (actually a lavender color), and you'd think since they made the effort to produce that hybrid, it'd be worthwhile to develop a true blue rose, which would certainly attract a lot of buyers.

http://www.isaaa.org/resources/publications/pocketk/47/default.asp

Meantime though, it is dishonest for online retailers (especially seed sellers) to promote their "non-GMO" offerings, which implies that others are selling nonexistent GMO plants/seeds.

Oh, gosh it's ridiculous this whole "organic" thing. Case in point: A person I know raved about a potting mix labelled organic -- um....yea... No use telling her peat, perlite, and vermiculite are all naturally-derived materials and she paid up the wazoo because the bag said "organic" -- it's like talking to a wall. In fact, I met someone just yesterday I was making small talk with who fell for the same marketing ploy of the exact same potting mix! UGH!

I do have to tip my hat to marketers, though -- it's BRILLIANT. Organic/natural/non-GMO labelling has got to be one of the most profitable marketing ploys EVER. People are so stupid when it comes to this stuff, they just can't see past those magic words. I have another acquaintance who doesn't know the difference between a hybridized and a GMO variety that she won't buy any seeds or plants that aren't heirlooms. AARGH!! (don't get me wrong - some heirloom varieties are great, but being a hybrid doesn't mean it was GMO'd, and just because it's an heirloom doesn't mean it isn't a hybrid).

Don't even get me started on food labelling...

I've lurked on this forum from time to time, but I feel moved to actually contribute this time. I work at an organic nursery, and we get this question all the time. Are your tomatoes organic, or non-gmo? I answer, "No, they are not certified organic, but they're treated organically once they get here. (Which means we don't do anything but water them, in reality. The idea is to sell them before they need fertilizing.) They come from local growers that wouldn't waste the money on chemicals as they want to make a profit, but they are not certified organic. Getting certified costs a kazillion dollars, and they aren't going to do that." I've lost some sales that way, but most people see the common sense in the logic that the growers aren't going to get certified, nor are they going to spend money needlessly on a bunch of chemicals. And no, people don't believe that tomatoes and peppers aren't going to be non-gmo, unless they're labeled as such, because everyone uses gmo seeds if they can, don't they? Not.

As for the potting soil, yes, there are potting soils out there with chemical fertilizers added, so maybe that's what those people are trying to avoid. I guess. I have had people ask if we sell organic dirt. Really. I get that question a lot. I give them "the look," and then patiently explain to them that dirt IS organic.

Sally

" I have had people ask if we sell organic dirt. Really. I get that question a lot. I give them "the look," and then patiently explain to them that dirt IS organic."

ROFLMAO!!! (it's so STUPID it's funny! Although it is a rather sad reflection on the intelligence of some members of our species, isn't it...)

Thank you Sally for emphasizing this point. My favourite farmer, who is just as cranky and passionate as I am and grows the best potatoes in the region, says exactly the same thing. Marketing can really do a number on people. Reminds me when I was a kid and ordered Sea Monkeys from the ads in the back of comic books. We really expected that cartoon family to come popping out of that powdered mix we stirred into the water. Look - you can even see them swimming in the bowl!

I am not weighing in anything but accuracy . . .

When something like potting soil (which I assume is what was referred to as dirt ) is labeled organic, that typically means that it doesn't have fungicides (sometimes added to prevent damping off) or those polymer "water crystals".

And organic in seeds typically doesn't reference GMO or not, but again whether it has a coating of fungicide on it, among other things.

^^ Which is fine - but I would venture that the average consumer doesn't know that. So, they're paying more for something that's left out because the word "organic" on the label = "better". We can argue 'till the cows come home about the issues surrounding fungicides, fertilizers, pesticides, etc, but that's not really the point of the post. As I see it, "organic" labelling is a big crock of {brilliant} marketing hoo-ha.

In the UK, it comes down to labeling and the validation of certified bodies such as The Soil Association...and consequently, has become something of a scam since being able to claim 'organic' is also dependent upon being able to afford the costs of being checked over by one of these licensing agents...and fulfilling the changeable criteria regarding what exactly is meant by 'organic'. Copper, for example, is absolutely fine...while the adding of nutrients is a contested area. However, small farmers have simply bypassed the licensing rules by stating 'this product is grown without chemical additives' or some variation of.

I am not an organic gardener and consider the most essential characteristic, which distinguishes my home-grown fruit and veggies from supermarket shopping, to be specific cultivar (ie.'Kestrel potatoes and 'Bloody Butcher' tomatoes ) and freshness...rather than 'organic'.

mxk3 hit the nail on the head! It is lack of consumer education and awareness that is driving much of this labeling and misunderstanding. And the manufacturers, vendors and suppliers are banking on this lack of awareness (and even promoting it) to increase sales and their bottom line.

To many, anything labeled as 'organic' has automatically got to be better. Which is not necessarily the case, depending on the product. Unfortunately, the term itself has been so misused and misapplied so often that it has now reached the point where it is almost meaningless.

There is a need for labeling, in my opinion. We all should want to avoid pesticides, fungicides and genetically modified seeds. If you don't want to avoid them, then I'm not sure you could possibly have an understanding of the harm to people and to the environment that they have the potential of doing. And it does take considerable time and investigation to gain that understanding.

If you are saying that there is a need, but people have misused labels, I'm sure that is true. Seems to be a common practice in today's world to try to get away with something. But if you want to avoid these things, I guess it just takes a bit more to figure out what is accurate labeling and what isn't.

People should know what they are buying. If they want to avoid pesticides, fungicides and GMO, then having that on the label should absolutely guarantee the consumer that is what they are getting.

I purchase from Fedco seeds when I purchase seeds, because I think they are as committed to avoiding those things as I am. And because they are honest and clear about what effort they've made to ascertain that about their seed and products and in what why they comply or don't comply. They also stay abreast of the latest news on these subjects and insert them into their catalog. They are a coop and not driven by profit.

I don't like to spend a lot of time investigating whether claims on the label are accurate or not. So, I try to focus on the root materials and avoid the processed products by large corporations.

As far as organic soil - I am trying to avoid anything added to or any process to the materials that are unnatural. I just want natural materials. And if something has been grown, I want to know if the grower has used organic methods. I rarely buy a bag of soil, except when it's time sensitive. And I read the label, and the ingredients and description of how the product was produced. I ask a lot of questions so that I know what I am buying. Normally, I make my own potting soil, so I know what I end up with.

I've been growing organically for 35+ years and my standards are higher than most people's that I talk to. Not because I'm smarter or better than any other gardener, but I guess I'm just more risk averse.

I don't buy products. I don't use pesticides or fungicides of any kind. Rarely, I've used a home made spray with garlic, a drop of dishwashing liquid and some red pepper powder, all harmless materials. I allow my garden to develop it's own ecology as much as possible. I use my own chopped up leaves and compost to fertilize with. I do buy Organic Seaweed and Fish Emulsion as my one and only fertilizer. Once in awhile I'll buy dried alfalfa meal to give roses an added boost for the long blooming season they have. Beyond that, it's water, sunshine and attention. That's it.

All of that is now our routine and it doesn't seem more difficult then what other gardeners do in their garden. And in the end, it probably saves me time, worry and money.

"We all should want to avoid pesticides, fungicides and genetically modified seeds."

I am not sure this is necessarily true :-) As an extreme example, your home made spray is technically considered a 'pesticide' (which has a very broad definition and does not need to fit into any sort of specific "chemical" guidelines). Further, there are many organic or natural pesticides, including fungicides, when if used as directed, pose minimal risk to you or the environment and which have been in use for decades, if not centuries. And more are being developed every day

And while there is little risk of GMO seeds available to any home gardener, I have yet to see any conclusive scientific evidence that even those agri crops that are currently GMO'd pose a risk to humans. They may well prove to have some altering effects on the wider environment with respect to insects and weeds that develop resistance to the material that alters the DNA, but they are not the threat to the global population that scaremongers would have you believe. In fact, GMO'd products have increased crop yields of vital food stuffs in third world countries that are desperate to feed their otherwise starving populations.

And soil is soil ;-) By definition it is organic, as it is derived from naturally occurring materials, although some of them may be mined or processed (like perlite, peat moss, or composted bark fines). It becomes 'inorganic' when it includes synthetic fertilizers or water holding polymers or other non-natural additives, but those are typically clearly designated on the label as they are considered selling points, not drawbacks.

Of course we all have our own individual standards and everyone has their own options and choices as to what to grow or not grow or what products to use or not use. As was pointed out previously, it is a small minority that actually takes the time to do the proper research (peer-reviewed scientific papers - not biased op-ed pieces or the social media rumor mill) and the suppliers and purveyors of these products are banking on that lack of valid research and general unawareness to cater to these folks and therein lays the issues with false or unnecessary labeling.

GG - if you are going to use the increased yield, starving population argument, in defence of GMOs (and I understand you are trying to be reassuring here), please, for the sake of fairness, mention the very real political issues regarding seed use and monopolies...because believe me - aiding the starving populations of some imaginary third world is NOT the primary concern of GMO research or the shareholders of Monsanto et al. Furthermore, many Indian and other lo-tech farmers can still teach us a thing or two about high yielding agriculture...such as Bengali farmers breaking records with labour intensive, hand weeding, site specific local seed.

I am not any sort of purist and happily steal or crib any appropriate tips and methods...and will use a spray fungicide if blight was descending upon my tomatoes. It is rare that any of my garden practices have any areas of concord with 21stC agriculture and I think my bumbling and fumbling is fairly representative of nearly all amateur home gardeners...as well as attempting some separation from the appalling world of global finance and rapacious politics.

Oh I agree 100%!! I don't doubt for a second that all the GMO-driven science and the development of new GMO crops has not been done with only the altruistic notion of feeding the world's hungry masses faster and more efficiently. It most definitely is money-driven and in a big way, which is why you will not find ornamentals or home edibles any sort of priority for this kind of research and development. It simply doesn't pay!!

But it has made a positive impact in some places.

I avoid gmo's because I don't want to eat roundup. That being said, I don't believe tomato growers or flower growers are using gmo seeds.

I do garden organically, and I do believe organic is better for the environment, as fewer fossil fuels are used with organics. Also, it's worked for millennia. But still, dirt is dirt, soil is soil, and it is organic unless, as others have said, they contain additives. Those additives should be on the label.

Sally

Hi Gardengal - I agree, that my home made concoction is a pesticide - but when I make it at home with common ingredients, in the form of one garlic clove, one drop of dishwashing liquid, a pinch of red pepper powder and 99% water, I know what I am using, first hand. I am using the least potentially damaging method that I can. Coupled with the fact I’ve probably used that about 2x in the past 5 years, I think I am reducing the risk, that any of my gardening activities are harming anyone or the environment. I think that is more the point of my post.

And actually, the reason I don't use that concoction more, is because I learned that I don't need to 99% of the time. As many times as I've thought to use it, I've been too busy or distracted to get around to it and what was fascinating was how the delay allowed the garden to tend to itself. That happened to me with aphids. Before I could use the concoction, I happened to notice that suddenly all the aphids were gone and ladybugs were in their place. It's not just about using products or which products to use. It's about garden ecology.

I posted to share my own practices and approach that has been successful for me for 35+ years. I am overly cautious perhaps, but I’d rather be overly cautious than take the chance I am contributing to the destruction of the natural environment or the decline of the bee population etc. etc. And since those practices are attempting to be more in tune with nature, I feel very happy about my choices. And the fact that I’ve seen success and positive results for doing so, just adds to that happiness.

And to the point that Campanula was making, I'd also like to add, that perhaps you might want to do a google search of lawsuits against Monsanto, to see the harm they have been doing. And for the supposed good they are doing for starving people, try looking for Indian farmers who used GMO seed from Monsanto and are suing the company.